Catholic Heresy (for the record)

Mec99 · Aug 9, 2015

But you do Worship Mary mwc68. Every time you pray the Rosary you are Praying to Mary through the Prayer "Hail Mary", which was created by the Catholic Church.

Show us mwc68 and fordmam, where in the Scriptures is the Prayer "Hail Mary" in its entirety? Where? Just point it out for us !

I know you cannot and you will not show us where in the Scriptures is the Hail Mary in its entirety!

JoelG · Aug 9, 2015

Holy water. I had to make a u-turn in the parking lot of a Catholic church. I noticed a 55 gallon drum with a sign on, "Holy Water". The drum had a water bib on it and there was a hose next to it coming from the building.
This another aspect of the Catholic church that protestants do not practice. Why is it necessary for the Catholics to believe that only the priest has the power to make water holy.
I was in the administration office of a Catholic church and a lady came to ask for holy water from the priest. She said she had to go to seven churches to get 7 bottles of holy water so she could remove demons from her house, because she said someone had put a spell on her house.. And, she was gladly accommodated. Does this really work?
Holy water was not used in the bible in that manner. And, it is not mentioned in the bible at all.
And, no where in the bible does it say that a priest has more prayer power than any other christian.
I guess it would be like the wine and bread turning into the body of Christ. It didn't really happen, but in our minds it did.
Just thought I would throw that one into the ring.

Mec99 · Aug 9, 2015

Do you know how the Catholics make Holy water?

Its simple.

They get a very large pot, then they fill it with water, then they bring it to a boil, and then they boil the HELL out if it!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

mwc68 · Aug 9, 2015

Mec99 said:

We True Christ put God first in our lives and second the Scriptures we have received from God.

The Catholics put Mary first in their lives, with the Catholic Church second in the lives and third in their lives is Pope Francis and his lie that Muslims are our Brothers in Christ.

How can you mwc68 and fordman say you are a True Christian when you reject everything God says in the Scriptures in favor of the lies of the Catholic Church?

Show us where in the Scriptures mwc68 and fordman where God says you can Pray to Mary and the Saints?

Matthew 6:5-8
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

Its interesting that Catholics will pray the Rosary over and over and over again for hours on end. Clearly this is VAIN REPETITIONS!

Why is it you Catholics REFUSE to obey what God says in the Scriptures?

I truly believe its because no Catholic has ever received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior!

Why would anyone listen to you? You have been proven a liar.

KenAllan · Aug 9, 2015

Even if it was proven that a True Christian is telling you the Truth mwc68, you still would call him a liar and continue in your sins of Worshiping Mary.

And why would anyone listen to you mwc68? For it has been proven that you reject everything good and True from God to follow and Worship Mary as your God.

Why mwc68 do you still reject the Truth from God that Mary was born a sinner? Why mwc68 do you still teach that Mary was without sin even though you do know Mary was born a sinner?

It seems to me mwc68 you love to call the True Christians a liar while rejecting every Truth from God to follow the lies of the Catholic Church.

How can you still support the Catholic Church when your Pope Francis believes and teaches that Muslims follow Jesus Christ? Do you not know mwc68 that the Muslims reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior? So why does your Pope Francis call God a liar and teach the Muslims are our Brothers in Christ?

mwc68 · Aug 9, 2015

KenAllan said:

Even if it was proven that a True Christian is telling you the Truth mwc68, you still would call him a liar and continue in your sins of Worshiping Mary.

And why would anyone listen to you mwc68? For it has been proven that you reject everything good and True from God to follow and Worship Mary as your God.

Why mwc68 do you still reject the Truth from God that Mary was born a sinner? Why mwc68 do you still teach that Mary was without sin even though you do know Mary was born a sinner?

It seems to me mwc68 you love to call the True Christians a liar while rejecting every Truth from God to follow the lies of the Catholic Church.

How can you still support the Catholic Church when your Pope Francis believes and teaches that Muslims follow Jesus Christ? Do you not know mwc68 that the Muslims reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior? So why does your Pope Francis call God a liar and teach the Muslims are our Brothers in Christ?

Your lying too! Pope Francis never said Muslims are our Brothers in Christ. Look it up. I did because I wanted to know. And I found out yall are lying about what he said. Apparently you think you are exempt from lying

KenAllan · Aug 9, 2015

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964
Chapter 16.

This is what Pope Paul VI said about the Muslims.

The Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind

How can the Muslims along with us adore the one and merciful God when they reject Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior?

The Muslims reject Jesus Christ as God and follow Allah instead.

Pope Francis said the same thing as Pope Paul VI.

This proves beyond a doubt that the Catholic Church believes and teaches the Muslims are our Brothers in Christ.

Like i said before mwc68, you will NEVER accept any Truth from God because the Catholic Church IS your God.

You can cry and whine all you like but the Truth is you have rejected the Truths from God to follow your God Mary and the Catholic Church.

KenAllan · Aug 9, 2015

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964
Chapter 16.

Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.

The Catholic Church also teaches one CAN receive Salvation OUTSIDE of Jesus Christ just by doing GOOD DEEDS.

There is more than enough proof in what the Popes have said to prove the Catholic Church does not teach the Truths from God, but instead teach their lies are Truths.

Budman · Aug 9, 2015

That's absolute baloney.

The definition of "thoroughly" (as in "thoroughly equipped") is "including every part and detail", "complete in all", or "absolute".

It means exactly what it says. The Scriptures are enough for all of our needs.

Tell me Ford, what information do we need from your church that the Bible doesn't provide?

Exactly. And what has your church done? It's gone beyond what is written and is inflated with pride to the point where it claims no one can be saved outside of the Catholic Church ( see "The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, “Lumen Gentium,” 14, from the documents of Vatican II) - in direct opposition to what the Bible teaches - that ALL who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Period.

And just what else could go there, Ford, that makes sense contextually?

Oh, and I'm going to keep posting the following until you address it:

"And yet again, why would any true Christian show respect for a religion that is literally leading billions of people to hell?

It's the same as showing respect to Satanism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormonism, or any other religion that is damning souls!

Would you kiss the Satanic Bible, Ford? How about the book of Mormon? Would you kiss the Koran?

Will Muslims make it to heaven, Ford? How about Buddhists, Hindus, Satanists, Mormons, etc.?"

Budman · Aug 9, 2015

fordman said:

All Christians are saints, Ford. Do you pray to us as well?

What are Christian saints according to the Bible?

KennethC · Aug 9, 2015

mwc68 said:

It was the Catholic church that forbid marriage to its priests and nuns for the longest time, and that is apostasy teaching as shown in 1 Timothy 4. They are slowly breaking away from that but some branches still hold to it.

Second you said yes the Catholic church does still hold that divorce is never allowed, but Matthew 5:32, 19:9 and 1 Corinthians 7:15 disagrees with that stance.

Maynard · Aug 9, 2015

Mec99 said:

It's certainly entirely biblical, based on scripture, the first two parts taken directly from scripture, and the conclusive petition absolutely biblical.
First, Mec99, ask yourself whether or not you only pray prayers that are prescribed in the bible word for word. Is the "Our Father" the only words that you ever utter in prayer? If that's the only prayer that you ever pray then I suggest that you exercise and strengthen your prayer life.

Now,
Is the Hail Mary prayer biblical?

Many of our brethren from Protestant denominations claim that the ‘Hail Mary’ prayer is not based on the Bible. But we know as Catholics that the prayer is a popular devotion in the Church and the chief prayer in the Rosary. Could this powerful prayer not be based on the Word of God? In fact it is. And here is an outline of why and how the prayer is based on the Word of God.

The prayer: HAIL MARY, FULL OF GRACE, THE LORD IS WITH YOU, BLESSED ARE YOU AMONG WOMEN AND BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF YOUR WOMB, JESUS (1[SUP]st[/SUP] Part)

HOLY MARY MOTHER OF GOD, PRAY FOR US SINNERS, NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH (2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Part)

Let us break the prayer into parts to know the importance of every word in the prayer;

“Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you”

In the gospel according to Luke, the angel Gabriel made a greeting to Mary, a virgin betrothed to Joseph, with the words: “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!”- Luke 1: 28 (RSV). Making this greeting was the very first step towards the salvation of humankind! This is a direct scripture quoted in the prayer, adding the name ‘Mary’ after ‘Hail’, and we too greet Mother Mary with the same words. Satan obviously dislikes the greeting since he is continually reminded of his failure and God’s victory through the new Eve! ‘When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child’- Revelation 12: 13 (NAB)*. No wonder, Satan has always attacked Mary in all the generations of Church history and continues to do so even today.
*This text which originally refers to the Church fits well for Mary. The Fathers of the Church have seen here the figure of Mary.

“Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb”

‘And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!"- Luke 1: 41-42 (RSV). The words quoted in prayer are again directly from scripture. Thus Elizabeth became the first person to call Mary “Blessed”.
Having known the call to her vocation partially, despite the challenges of the time, Mary freely contributed to surrender her life to the will of God - “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word”- Luke 1: 38 (RSV). This act of unconditional faith by Mary made Elizabeth call her “Blessed” the second time - “Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled”- Luke 1: 45 (NAB)
In her response of praise and thanksgiving, Mary said “for he has looked with favor on the lowliness of his servant. Surely, from now on all generations will call me blessed”- Luke 1: 48 (NRSV) Our Mother said that she will be called ‘Blessed’ by all generations from that point on. In fact we see the fulfillment of the same in that generation itself. During Jesus’ preaching a woman from the crowd said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed”- Luke 11: 27 (NAB) She well deserved to be called blessed not just because she bore and nursed Jesus as her Son- but also for the real fact that Jesus further emphasizes- that she “heard the Word of God and observed it” (Luke 11: 28) evident through her words “let it be to me according to your word”- Luke 1: 38b (RSV) Bearing Jesus in her womb and nursing him was the proof of the fulfillment of her surrender. What began in that generation has continued ever since.

Thus, in the Catholic Church from generation to generation we have called Mother Mary ‘Blessed’, every time we have recited the words “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb” through the ‘Hail Mary’ prayer. And therefore, in this generation, the onus of calling her ‘Blessed’ lies with us. If we give up on calling her ‘Blessed’, who else will? And if we do not call her ‘Blessed’, it is we Catholics who are going against the Holy Scriptures and slowly drifting away from the fullness of truth!
“Jesus”

At the end of the words ‘and blessed is the fruit of your womb’, we add “Jesus”. Why do we have the name of the Lord being added to the first part of the prayer?

First of all we correctly identify that the fruit of the womb is “Jesus” as the fulfillment of what the angel Gabriel announced at the annunciation- “Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus”- Luke 1: 31 (RSV)
But what is the significance of the name ‘Jesus’ to us? St. Paul wrote to the congregation at Colossae: “And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus” - Colossians 3: 17a (RSV) Therefore as Christians we need to do everything in the name of Jesus because his name is above every name (Philippians 2: 9) Verse 10 further expresses this truth: ‘that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth’- Philippians 2: 10 (NAB) Therefore, taking the name of Jesus on our lips either praying for ourselves or for others brings about healing, deliverance and salvation. We read St. Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, making this declaration: “then all of you and all the people of Israel should know that it was in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarean whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead; in his name this man stands before you healed. He is ‘the stone rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.’ There is no salvation through anyone else, nor is there any other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved.”- Acts 4: 10- 12 (NAB)
Finally, this is how our Catholic Church expresses the importance of the Lord’s name in our prayers: CCC 435: The name of Jesus is at the heart of Christian prayer. All liturgical prayers conclude with the words “through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The Hail Mary reaches its high point in the words “blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.” The Eastern prayer of the heart, the Jesus Prayer, says: “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Many Christians, such as St. Joan of Arc, have died with the one word “Jesus” on their lips.

“Holy Mary”
We begin the second part of the prayer with these words. The God we worship is Holy and we see this being highlighted all throughout the bible - Ex. Rev. 15: 4 (RSV) Even when Aaron’s sons offered unholy fire at the Tent of the Lord’s presence, they were consumed by fire (Leviticus 10: 1-3) The presence of God is so sacred that it strikes dead those who approach him without the proper holiness. Also, those who are consecrated to serve God especially the priests, must be considered holy - ‘You shall consecrate him [priest], for he offers the bread of your God; he shall be holy to you; for I the Lord, who sanctify you, am holy’- Leviticus 21: 8 (RSV) The Catholic Church has always lived up to this tradition. Even today as said by Pope Paul VI in Mysterium Fidei: CCC 1183, ‘the tabernacle is to be situated “in churches in a most worthy place with the greatest honor”’…
When the all holy eternal Son of God was to be born to a woman, could he be born to a woman who was short of the required holiness? The Catholic Church teaches us: CCC 492: The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son.” The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her “in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love.”* – (LG 53, 56; Ephesians 1: 3-4) Undoubtedly, Mother Mary was the ‘holy’ living tabernacle of the Lord.
*This election that is given to every disciple of Christ is particularly visible in the case of Mary, and so she is holy par excellence.
“Mother of God”
Our Blessed Mother is called the ‘Mother of God’. Elizabeth full of the Holy Spirit said “And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”- Luke 1: 43 (RSV) When Elizabeth referred to Mary as ‘mother of my Lord’, she indeed acknowledged the very fact that the One whom Mary was carrying in her womb was the ‘Lord’. And the same Lord is the Word who was God (John 1: 1b), who became flesh (John 1: 14a) to dwell with us. St. Paul thus rightly expressed - ‘But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law.’- Galatians 4: 4 (RSV) St. Thomas exclaimed “my Lord and my God!” (John 20: 28) St. Paul also wrote: ‘For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily’ - Colossians 2: 9a (RSV) In conclusion* (considering other scriptural texts in addition), opposing the Nestorian heresy, the Catholic Church confirmed (Council of Ephesus, 431), and continued to believe, that Mary is the mother of the One Person, Jesus Christ, the Son of God who is ‘True God and True Man’ in his human existence. Hence, Mother Mary is rightly honored with the title ‘Mother of God’ (Theotokos)
*The word ‘conclusion’ here refers to only the outcome of the Council of Ephesus, and not the belief. The belief that Mother Mary is the Mother of God already existed prior to the Council.
“Pray for us sinners”
Through the prayers made for sinners, a sinner receives life - ‘If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life.’- 1 John 5: 16a (NAB) Intercessory prayers are therefore vital in Christian living. St. James tells us ‘the fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful’ - James 5: 16b (NAB). So, requesting prayers from holy and righteous people is perfectly scriptural. The Catholic Church also teaches us that we can ask the saints to intercede for us: CCC 828: By canonising some of the faithful, i.e., by solemnly proclaiming that they practiced heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God’s grace, the Church recognizes the power of the spirit of holiness within her and sustains the hope of believers by proposing the saints to them as models and intercessors (LG 40; 48-51) “The saints have always been the source and origin of renewal in the most difficult moments of the Church’s history” (John Paul II, CL 16, 3)
We read in scripture about a vision that Maccabeus has, where Onias, a former high priest ‘prays with outstretched arms for the whole Jewish community’ and also prophet Jeremiah ‘who loves his brethren and fervently prays for his people and their holy city’ (2 Maccabees 15: 11- 14). Both Onias and Jeremiah were physically dead at the time - a clear scriptural belief for the intercession of saints! (Also read Luke 9: 29-32; 16:26- 31; 20: 37- 38)
Our Blessed Mother is the Saint of all Saints, also interceding for us sinners.
“Now”

Our Blessed Mother intercedes for us in every situation of ‘now’. For example, she intervened and interceded to Jesus on behalf of the family hosting the wedding feast at Cana in Galilee. The wine had run out and our Blessed Mother saved the situation in that crisis. She did not perform the miracle, Jesus did, but on her intercession. This happened despite the fact Jesus said “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.”- John 2: 4 (NAB) The healing had to come in that very moment of ‘now’ even though it was not the time for Jesus to perform a miracle (John 2: 1, 3, 5, 11). Indeed, our Blessed Mother is a powerful intercessor: ‘His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he [Jesus] tells you”’- John 2: 5 (NAB)
The gospel according to Luke tells us ‘During those days Mary set out and travelled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah, where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth’- Luke 1: 39- 40 (NAB) Notice the words in scripture ‘in haste’. The Blessed Mother did not wait for another convenient time but set off immediately after she got the news of Elizabeth’s pregnancy - that very moment of ‘now’. This act of charity of our Mother Mary was very humbling, evident in Elizabeth’s expression, “And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”- Luke 1: 43 (RSV) Moreover, the Blessed Mother brought the Lord’s presence into the life of Elizabeth. She stayed back for 3 months to help and support and then returned home (Luke 1: 56). Her act of charity was total and complete in that situation of ‘now’.

The Church expresses the same faith and confidence that the Blessed Mother will continue to intercede for us in every present situation of our ‘now’ and so bring Jesus to our lives as she has always done.
“And at the hour of our death”

The Lord had foretold his disciples that when his hour would come, all of them will be scattered to their own homes and that he would be left all alone (John 16: 32a) But we see during the passion and crucifixion, his mother was present there. The Blessed Mother risked her own life and was standing by the cross, leading a few others, in praying and supporting her Son at the final moments of his death (John 19: 25) She did not give up praying though sorrow like a sharp sword pierced her heart as prophesized by Simeon (Luke 2: 35). Jesus said to his disciple John “Behold, your mother!” - John 19: 27 (NAB), thus giving his own mother to us individually and the Church. So now, she is our own mother.
We now have the same confidence that our Blessed Mother will also pray for us ‘at the hour of our death’ just as she prayed at the foot of the cross without giving up. We can be rest assured that even if we are abandoned by all around us and left all alone; our dear loving mother will always stand by us praying for us. Indeed, what a privilege this is.
CCC 975: “We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ.” (Paul VI, CPG 15)
By reciting the ‘Hail Mary’ prayer, Catholics do not worship Mother Mary as some claim. In his human existence, Jesus practiced the whole Law to perfection and had no sin in him (1 Pet 2: 22; Luke 2: 51- 52; Matthew 3: 13- 15; 5: 17- 18). We too need to model our lives on him (1 John 2: 6; 1 Cor 11: 1) We honor Mary as our own mother just as Jesus himself honored her as his own mother. The right word therefore is ‘veneration’ and not ‘worship’.
We address her with the same words which were inspired by the Holy Spirit then, call her with the titles based on scripture and finally ask for her intercession.

Source
Is the Hail Mary prayer biblical?

God bless

mwc68 · Aug 9, 2015

KennethC said:

Well the apostacy started 500 yrs ago with your beloved Luther. Look at the mess he made just reading through these threads

mwc68 · Aug 9, 2015

Mec99, I attended Mass this evening and looked hard for a 40 ft statue of Mary. Couldn't find it. I saw no pics of Mary in the sanctuary. You sir, are just a liar and a real shame. Really? Is this how you evangelize?

KennethC · Aug 9, 2015

mwc68 said:

Sorry but I do not follow Luther, as that is a Protestant thing and they have almost just as bad of a past history as the Catholic church does. For both have blood of innocent people on their hands that they have falsely murdered !!!

Still there are things the Catholic church does that contradicts the word of God, and you may not do it but the Pope has bowed down to a statue of Mary and that is a form of worship.

pwrnJC · Aug 9, 2015

mwc68....and here we have yet another mindless, silly, highly opinionated post that goes NOWHERE but to the garbage dump. Where is the JOY of your salvation? This kind of 'in you face" attitude and putdown is not an effective witnessing tool of the Holy Spirit....do you honestly think this ridicule is necessary? I would encourage you to start casting out demons with the same vengence you use on those who proclaim they are catholic. GOD is NOT going to ask you "Son, did you put down another catholic today? GOOD for YOU! Here..let ME put another gem in your crown!"
By the way..I am NOT catholic!

mwc68 · Aug 9, 2015

pwrnJC said:

Oh yeah, Go back through this thread. This liar has put me down every way he can think of! Accuses me of following satan and lo and behold he has been following his father of lies all this time. Disgraceful

fordman · Aug 9, 2015

KenAllan said:

[/SUP]
[SUP]
First off, not sure of your translation of the bible is, for the bible I use (NAB) as "may be complete. " No, my version has it as "so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work." Competent as meaning...."having requisite or adequate ability or qualities : fit <a competent teacher> <a competent piece of work>. Competent and complete are two differnt things. Anyhoo, thats besides the point.

Lets first look at verse 16. The word used is "profitable", not "sufficient". It is certainly true that reading the Scriptures can lead to a man being "prepared for every good work" - but this does not mean that just the Scriptures are needed. The most that this verse says is that the Scriptures are useful and that they are possibly essential – but that is not the same thing as sufficient Kenallan. This is just another example of your "either/or" theology.

In addition, you and others fail to read these verses in context – when the passage 2 Tim.3:14-17 is read it is clear that St. Paul is reminding Timothy to remember what he learned and from who he learned it, and also to stick to the Scriptures which he "knew from childhood". This passage shows two things – firstly, Paul is advocating the following of Tradition. And, secondly, Paul is revealing what he means by "Scriptures" - he means the Old Testament, the Seputagint as it was known. Timothy is urged to read the Scriptures which he has known all his life. Someting else you and others fail to relize is that the N.T. did not exist when Timothy was a child, the only Scripture were the Jewish Scriptures. So, if this verse shows sola scriptura it in fact shows sola Old Testament – the New Testament should be abandoned. But, if we abandoned the New Testament, we wouldn't have this verse – so we wouldn't need to abandon the New Testament

Catholics are not the ones going against what God says in Scripture. We leave that up to the thousands of your differnt non-Catholic sects with their thousands of differnt interpretations of Scripture to do that. All supposedly inspired by the Holy Spirit. How do you know whos right, and whos not? The God we Catholics know is not a God of confusion!

Dude.... I can go on and on refuting your claim of the bible alone as being sifficient as a sole rule of faith. Lets look at the historical argument against Sola Scripture:

The Bible itself shows that there were Christians before a word of the New Testament was written – the whole of the book of Acts, for example, describes the early life of the Church from the Ascension of Jesus onwards. There is no doubt whatsoever that these people were Christians.

However, these people cannot have had a copy of the New Testament – the last book of the New Testament was written around 100 AD. Before that date no Christian could have had a complete "Bible" as we understand it today. If the Bible is the "sole source of Christian teaching and knowledge" as sola scriptura claims, how can these people have been Christians? Peter, Paul, James, John and Andrew never saw a complete modern Bible – what they had was the Old Testament Scriptures and the preaching and Tradition of the Church. I could go on, but my favorite progam is coming on, but will if need be.

Lol!!! It is you tring to make Scripture say something thats just not there. As I have proven, 2Tim.3:16-17 in no way says that Scripture Alone is sufficient as a sole rule of faith. You just need to accept it and move on!! But by all means....keep trying!
　

Pax Christi

　

"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ----Luke 1:48.

[/SUP]

JoelG · Aug 9, 2015

Do you know its a waste of time to talk to JW's. They come to my door and try to push their religion.
You can talk to them till you are exhausted, and at the end of it all they want to hand you a
Watch Tower.
What Catholics do not understand is that protestants are called protestants because they protest the Catholic church. We know that its there and most of have made the choice to not worship there.
Praying to Mary and the saints was not practiced at all in biblical times. This came about later. And, I think because of the apparition. And, I do not know how are why they decided to pray to ordinary people who did good. And, they did good because that was their job and supposedly are responsible for a miracle or two that they had God do for them. They probably prayed to Mary for the miracle and Mary talked to God and whamo God responded and they got the credit for it.

But, the main fact is that the Catholic church has evolved to this point. Which means that the Pope is in direct communication with God. God has spoken to the Pope and told him to make these changes.

When they asked Jesus, "How should we pray"? And, he answered like this, "Our father who art in Heaven..........Amen". Of course he would not say pray to my mom. She was still alive, and probably in the crowd. He probably even pulled on his ear, to say Hi, to her.

Some rocket scientist in the catholic church had to decide to roll in the statues and decide to pray to the saints that they created and to the Virgin Mary.
Can you image how it was on the first day of this change. It would be like this: "Today, we have some good news for you. You no longer have to pray directly to your father in heaven. The Pope has told us that your prayers can be heard just fine if you pray to the Virgin Mary or The Saints who are in heaven. Don't worry about flooding Mary's e-mail, because she has time for all of you. But, if you want to talk to a specific department you can choose from a wide variety of Saints. We do have one for everyday of the year. So feel free to pick the one you like the most, because they are all within a rocks throw from Jesus and they will relay your prayers to him. One more thing; when you pray to Mary, be sure to repeat yourself several times. Mary will not acknowledge you unless you say the same thing at least ten or more time.

The bible clearly says that God hates repetition in prayer. God know what you want before you ask.

Its kind of kool that I can pray directly to God and build a relationship with him instead of having to go through the chain of command to get things done.

50 Hail Mary's is a form of punishment / discipline. Which was created because the Catholics are a dominate type of religion. If you sin your punishment would be to labor over the rosary beads and count the number of times you have repeated the same words.

Budman · Aug 10, 2015

No, Maynard, it isn't.

Question: "What is the Hail Mary that Catholics say so often?"

Answer: The “Hail Mary,” Ave Maria in Latin, is a Roman Catholic prayer to the Virgin Mary that consists of salutations and a plea for her intercession. The text of the Hail Mary prayer incorporates two Bible passages: “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee" (Luke 1:28) and “Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb" (Luke 1:42). The first passage is the angel Gabriel’s greeting to Mary when he came to inform her that she had been chosen to bear the Messiah. The second is her cousin Elizabeth’s greeting to Mary when Mary came to visit her cousin, who was also pregnant at the time with John the Baptist. The third part of the Hail Mary prayer is not from the Bible and is, in fact, in direct contradiction to Scriptural truth: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.”

This last part of the Hail Mary prayer has three unbiblical parts to it. First, Mary is not and never was “holy.” Mary was a human being who was born, as all humans are, with a sin nature and who recognized that she needed a Savior. In fact, the very passage used in the Hail Mary, known as Mary’s Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55), contains the declaration “my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,” a clear indication that she understood her need for a Savior from sin. The Bible never says that Mary was anyone but an ordinary human whom God chose to use in an extraordinary way. Yes, Mary was a righteous woman and favored (graced) by God (Luke 1:27-28). At the same time, Mary was a sinful human being who needed Jesus Christ as her Savior, just like everyone else (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 6:23; 1 John 1:8).

The second unbiblical part of the Hail Mary is addressing Mary as the “Mother of God.” Mary was the human mother of the human Jesus Christ, who was indeed God incarnate. But she was not the mother of God, neither is she the ”queen of heaven,” another title given to her by the Catholic Church which has no basis in Scripture. God doesn’t have a mother, nor does He have a queen. He is an eternal, infinite Being, uncreated and unborn, self-sufficient and self-sustaining.

The third unbiblical statement in the Hail Mary is the plea for her to “pray for us sinners.” Here we see the unbiblical practice of praying to Mary to intercede with God for us. First, we do not need another intercessor with God. Christ is the only intercessor we need. Through Jesus and Him alone, we have direct access to the Father. Christ alone mediates and intercedes between God and man. “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). Prayer to anyone other than God alone is anti-biblical. Praying to Mary or petitioning her to pray for us is against the Scriptures. Prayer is an act of worship. When we pray to God, we are admitting that we need His help. Directing our prayers to anyone other than God is robbing God of the glory that is His alone, something God hates and will not tolerate (Isaiah 42:8).

While Mary was certainly a godly young woman greatly blessed in that she was chosen to bear the Savior of the world, she was not in any way divine, nor was she sinless, nor is she to be worshipped, revered, venerated, or prayed to.

Source - What is the Hail Mary that Catholics say so often?

Question: "Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical?"

Answer: The issue of Catholics praying to saints is one that is full of confusion. It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. However, the practice of many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. Many Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help – instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help. Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers. Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or the saints, or request their prayers? Catholics view Mary and the saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can "approach the throne of grace with confidence."

First Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." There is no one else that can mediate with God for us. If Jesus is the ONLY mediator, that indicates Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father: "Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them" (Hebrews 7:25). With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God listen to more closely than His Son? Romans 8:26-27 describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?

Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination—activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-13). In the one instance when a "saint" is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.

God does not answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asked according to His will (1 John 5:14-15). There is absolutely no basis or need to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no basis for asking those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers. Only God can answer our prayers. No one in heaven has any greater access to God's throne than we do through prayer (Hebrews 4:16).

Source - Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical?

Question: "What is the difference between veneration and worship?"

Answer: In response to the accusation that they worship Mary and the saints, Catholics will often claim that they “venerate,” not worship, them. To venerate is to regard with great respect or to revere. Veneration can be defined as “respect or awe directed toward someone due to his/her value or greatness.”

The simplest definition of worship is to “ascribe worth.” Worship can be more completely defined as “showing respect, love, reverence, or adoration.” Based on the dictionary, no clear difference between veneration and worship exists. In fact, veneration and worship are often used as synonyms for each other.

But dictionary definitions are not the point. It does not matter what it is called. The Bible nowhere instructs followers of Jesus Christ to offer worship, veneration, adoration, or anything similar to anyone but God. Nowhere does the New Testament describe any followers of Jesus Christ worshipping, venerating, or adoring anyone other than God. They did not receive worship, either. Peter refused to receive adoration from Cornelius (Acts 10:25–26), and Paul and Barnabas were equally adamant that the people of Lystra not venerate them (Acts 14:15). Twice in the Book of Revelation (19:10; 20:7), the apostle John begins to worship an angel, and the angel instructs him, “Worship God!” Mary and the saints who have gone to heaven before us would say the same thing: “Worship God!”

The Catholic Church has different degrees of worship: dulia, hyper dulia, and latria. Dulia is the honor given to the saints. Hyper dulia is the honor given to Mary alone, as the greatest of the saints. Latria is the honor given to God alone. In contrast, the Bible always ascribes honor, in the context of worship, to God alone (1 Chronicles 29:11; 1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16; Revelation 4:11; 5:13). Even if there were biblical support for different levels of worship, there still would be no biblical support for offering lower/lesser levels of worship to anyone other than God.

Only God is worthy of worship, adoration, praise (Nehemiah 9:6; Revelation 4:11; 15:4), and veneration, no matter how it is defined. Mary’s worth comes from the fact that God choose her for a glorious role and saved her from her sins through the death of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:47). The saints’ worth comes from the fact that God saved them, transformed them, and then used them in mighty and amazing ways. May we all, with Mary and the saints, fall on our knees and worship the only One who is worthy.

Source - What is the difference between veneration and worship?

And stop posting from the Apocrypha. It isn't Scripture. The apocrypha contradicts Scripture

Catholic Heresy (for the record)

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