Christmas tree -- vestige from Babylonian worship

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BroTan

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More on Christmas -- A work of delusion

Jeremiah 10:1 Hear ye the word which Jehovah speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 thus saith Jehovah, Learn not the way of the nations, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are vanity; for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are like a palm-tree, of turned work, and speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.

This chapter concludes with they have devoured him, consumed him and laid waste to his habitation. Who? The nations that have not known God. But it starts with the house of Israel bringing the idol of these pagan worshippers into the house. Think of the Christmas tree as a trojan horse. It looks like they are celebrating the Lord's birth with you and yet they are deceiving you into bringing this idol into your house that will consume it, devour it, and lay it waste.

6 There is none like unto thee, O Jehovah; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. 7 Who should not fear thee, O King of the nations? for to thee doth it appertain; forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their royal estate, there is none like unto thee. 8 But they are together brutish and foolish: the instruction of idols! it is but a stock. 9 There is silver beaten into plates, which is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the artificer and of the hands of the goldsmith; blue and purple for their clothing; they are all the work of skilful men. 10 But Jehovah is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting King: at his wrath the earth trembleth, and the nations are not able to abide his indignation.

Now it gets worse, they let this idol instruct them. Here is how you decorate it. Then you need to go to our malls and buy a bunch of junk to put under it. You need to put the star of our God Moloch on top of it. You need to put "special" ornaments that people describe as though they were idols that they worship on it. You sing songs to it "O Christmas tree". Yet there is nothing true about it. It is green but it is not living. And, it will not abide God's indignation, what happens after Christmas, they throw the tree in the fire.

11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, these shall perish from the earth, and from under the heavens.

Whoa! Many people think this tree is insignificant, why talk about it. Because right here this idol is a symbol reminding us of the coming judgement on the earth by fire.

12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding hath he stretched out the heavens. 13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings for the rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasuries. 14 Every man is become brutish and is without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his graven image; for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. 15 They are vanity, a work of delusion: in the time of their visitation they shall perish. 16 The portion of Jacob is not like these; for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance: Jehovah of hosts is his name.

Whoa, it is a work of delusion, it is part of the great delusion that God sends to those who did not love the truth. Not only so but "in the time of their visitation they shall perish". What do Christmas trees have to do with the time of their visitation? Not only so but there is a direct comparison between this idolatrous Christmas tree and everything that it entails and our portion, the babe of Bethlehem. Also, even though it is pagan worship and even though it has nothing to do with Jesus' birth the fact that these two are put together into a juxtaposition like they are during Christmas is because of the God of heaven, by His wisdom and by His understanding. Now what does all this have to do with God uttering his voice? Are we talking about the trumpet blast when God causes the saints to ascend from the ends of the earth? Is this Trumpet blast like the scene the shepherds in the field saw? The incarnation is when God came down to man and the rapture is when men ascend to God?

17 Gather up thy wares out of the land, O thou that abidest in the siege. 18 For thus saith Jehovah, Behold, I will sling out the inhabitants of the land at this time, and will distress them, that they may feel it.

Whoa! This sounds like the start of the tribulation with the judgement on the apostasy and organized Christianity. This verse reminds me of the violation of the sabbath day in the Old Testament or even more of Jesus casting the money changers out of the temple. They turn the worship of Jesus birth into a great big bazaar of buying all the wares of these pagan idolaters.

19 Woe is me because of my hurt! my wound is grievous: but I said, Truly this is my grief, and I must bear it. 20 My tent is destroyed, and all my cords are broken: my children are gone forth from me, and they are not: there is none to spread my tent any more, and to set up my curtains. 21 For the shepherds are become brutish, and have not inquired of Jehovah: therefore they have not prospered, and all their flocks are scattered. 22 The voice of tidings, behold, it cometh, and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah a desolation, a dwelling-place of jackals.

We begin this chapter with them cutting down a Christmas tree, bringing it into the house of Israel and decorating it because the shepherds have become brutish and have not inquired of the Lord. At the end we see an attack from the North to make the cities of Judah a desolation, a dwelling place of jackals (gangs of thugs). This sounds like the start of the tribulation when Russia attacks the US.

23 O Jehovah, I know that the way of man is not in himself; it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. 24 O Jehovah, correct me, but in measure; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. 25 Pour out thy wrath upon the nations that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name; for they have devoured Jacob, yea, they have devoured him and consumed him, and have laid waste his habitation.
There's a lot of truth in there you wrote. Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.
 

gb9

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Jan 18, 2011
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There's a lot of truth in there you wrote. Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.
most Christians know that Christ was not born on dec, 25.

it is a celebration of the birth, not the date.
 

BroTan

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most Christians know that Christ was not born on dec, 25.

it is a celebration of the birth, not the date.
We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."
Jesus commanded us to observe the Holy Days in Leviticus the 23rd chapter but we ignore those days and observe traditions that have nothing to do with Jesus. (Matthew 15: 1-9). 1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
 

BroTan

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World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed.

The end of December was an especially significant time in the northern hemisphere. Days were short; nights long. The sun was at its lowest point. This called for the celebration of special festivals of thanksgiving and encouragement to the waning sun. When at the winter solstice in late December, the days began to lengthen once again, there was great festivity lasting into the first part of January. The reason was that the declining sun---the light of the world--had been reborn and began to gain in strength. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice ". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra (the Persian's Sun God) celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun).
 

JTB

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We've taken a lot of old pagan ceremonies (Christmas, Easter, etc), and turned them around for the glory of God.

I just don't get Christians having a problem with that.
 

gb9

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We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."
Jesus commanded us to observe the Holy Days in Leviticus the 23rd chapter but we ignore those days and observe traditions that have nothing to do with Jesus. (Matthew 15: 1-9). 1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

you mean the nation of Israel.

that is who Passover and the Feasts were commanded to.

not gentiles.
 
O

Oblio

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Perhaps sometime you'll see things differently.
 

ZNP

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There's a lot of truth in there you wrote. Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.
I agree, however all the festivals in the OT were convocations, rehearsals for the big event so I wonder if this is also a rehearsal for the rapture of the man child described in Rev 12 with "Santa" being the big dragon who wants to devour the man child.
 
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We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."
Jesus commanded us to observe the Holy Days in Leviticus the 23rd chapter but we ignore those days and observe traditions that have nothing to do with Jesus. (Matthew 15: 1-9). 1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Did He set us free to be yoked again to more commandments?

If I am commanded to love Him, what’s the good of that? Can we force a lover to love us? I’ve never seen that work out right.

I’ve taken a horse to the water trough and as much as I tried to force his head down into that water, he would not. But, If I walked away, no problems.

So, when the bible says “commandment” what is exactly being said? Is it a bible thumping smash over the head commandment, or is it something else?

I remember when my Dad tried to force me to listen to a preacher speak. I certainly sat there but I closed my ears until it was over and I had a good look at the door to get out. Is that what God is saying when He talks about commandments, because if it is, no one will yield to that kind of arm twisting.

So, how does this all work? The answer is the freedom to love because faith worketh by love.

If I love God freely and not forced to love Him, I am going to be a pretty good son. But, if He said, ”You better love me boy or else”, most likely I will take the “else”.
 

ZNP

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We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."
We are commanded to keep the Lord's table, that is the one day we are commanded to keep. Nowhere are we commanded to celebrate Christmas, however, that said most of the church does and I am interested in knowing why. Yes, we know it wasn't the day He was born on but if you believe that Jesus is Lord why under His sovereignty would His church go through this Holy convocation year after year?

I don't believe in coincidences, I think that is an insult to God through whom are all things. Nor do I believe in something like this being meaningless when every single word of the Bible is filled with meaning.

Jesus commanded us to observe the Holy Days in Leviticus the 23rd chapter but we ignore those days and observe traditions that have nothing to do with Jesus. (Matthew 15: 1-9).
I don't think you will have any Biblical support for this when Paul in Colossians tells us plainly not to let anyone judge us with regards to keeping a feast day. The OT was a covenant made with Abraham and the Jews, Gentiles are not bound by that covenant, our covenant was made during the Lord's table. Which is the only day we are charged to keep.

1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Yes, I agree as well that many of the things in the Christmas celebration indicate that the hearts are far fro the Lord and when someone says that the Christmas tree represents Christ's birth then you know they are teaching the doctrines of men.
 

ZNP

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World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed.

The end of December was an especially significant time in the northern hemisphere. Days were short; nights long. The sun was at its lowest point. This called for the celebration of special festivals of thanksgiving and encouragement to the waning sun. When at the winter solstice in late December, the days began to lengthen once again, there was great festivity lasting into the first part of January. The reason was that the declining sun---the light of the world--had been reborn and began to gain in strength. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice ". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra (the Persian's Sun God) celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun).
This was after the apostolic church (Ephesus) and after the suffering church (Smyrna) and was during the time of the mixed marriage church (Pergamum) where you have the false prophet (Balaam) teaching the believers to get involved in idol worship and fornication. Notice how those who take issue with this practice are considered "against all" (Antipas).
 

ZNP

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We've taken a lot of old pagan ceremonies (Christmas, Easter, etc), and turned them around for the glory of God.

I just don't get Christians having a problem with that.
What do you mean we?
 
O

Oblio

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I don't see them as commandments. I see them as joyous celebrations. Learning of my Hebrew roots has made a big difference in how I view things. It's like now I know who I am...even in Christ, I somehow felt like I didn't quite know who I was. I feel like I do now. I don't expect anyone else to understand it...I'm not sure I do myself. I just know it's of God.
 

ZNP

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Thus speaketh Christ our Lord to us:


Ye call Me Master and obey Me not


Ye call Me Light and see Me not


Ye call Me Way and walk Me not


Ye call Me life and choose Me not


Ye call Me wise and follow Me not


Ye call Me fair and love Me not


Ye call Me rich and ask Me not


Ye call Me eternal and seek Me not


Ye call Me noble and serve Me not


Ye call Me gracious and trust Me not


Ye call Me might and honor Me not


Ye call Me just and fear Me not


If I condemn you, blame me not.


Inscription on a cathedral in Lubeck, Germany.
 
O

Oblio

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I hear there's a lot of luke-warmness in the church today. I'm really out of touch with everything. The Lord has had me set aside for a long time. This will end...
 

Gardenias

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I have NO clue.........

For sure this thread has been unproductive in any biblical sense.

Opinions, opinions, opinions is all that has been offered with a lot of nonsense in between.

Just as this post is beneficial to NO ONE so is this thread..........