Church Doctrine VS. God's Word

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,832
1,041
113
The crux of the argument is "is salvation conferred upon any by water baptism?" the answer is no.

For a thousand years or so there was no scriptural baptism in the church ... there were however christians

None of the reformers were baptised ... only sprinkled as babes.
No one will enter Heaven without having their sins remitted. And as referenced many times, sins are remitted upon obedience to water baptism by immersion in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

Also, throughout history there have been people who stayed true to the common salvation message first presented by the apostles. (Jude 3)
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
The crux of the argument is "is salvation conferred upon any by water baptism?" the answer is no.

For a thousand years or so there was no scriptural baptism in the church ... there were however christians

None of the reformers were baptised ... only sprinkled as babes.
You know nothing of the history of the Church. Try reading what was written by the martyrs through out church history.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
4,963
2,559
113
London
christianchat.com
No one will enter Heaven without having their sins remitted. And as referenced many times, sins are remitted upon obedience to water baptism by immersion in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

Also, throughout history there have been people who stayed true to the common salvation message first presented by the apostles. (Jude 3)
False doctrine

Our sins are remitted by Jesu's shed blood.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
4,963
2,559
113
London
christianchat.com
The following scriptures may help to clear up your misunderstanding about John the Baptist being part of the OT: "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." (Luke 16:16)

"The law and the prophets were until John - The law and the prophets continued to be the sole teachers until John came, who first began to proclaim the glad tidings of the kingdom of God:" Adam Clarke's Commentary


Mark 1:1-5 clarifies that John the Baptist was a NT prophet who began preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ: "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

As referenced in Luke 24:47, Jesus said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name in all nations beginning in Jerusalem. This happened on the Day of Pentecost when Peter said everyone must repent, and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission sin, (water) and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. This is when water baptism was begun in the name of the Lord Jesus in association with His death, burial and resurrection.

Confirmation that being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is water baptism is seen in (Acts 2:38; 8:12-18, 10:47-48)

If you notice in Acts 19: 1-6, it was after Paul baptized the group in the name of the Lord Jesus (water) that he then laid hands on them in order for them to receive the Holy Ghost.
he that is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than John.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,701
113
The pastor and several people pray with him but he can not get baptized because of the frozen pipes. He is driving on that icy road someone is going to fast looses control hits him and kills him. Is God going to send him to hell because he did not get baptized? The church doctrine says he was not baptized therefore he was not saved.
...and all because the dumb pastor didn't know how to use a blow torch! :rolleyes:

Gods word The Bible says Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

No baptism needed.
Agree. We get the Baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment we are saved and it's a done deal.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,058
5,416
113
62
But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless those that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you, and persecute you.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
935
113
No one will enter Heaven without having their sins remitted. And as referenced many times, sins are remitted upon obedience to water baptism by immersion in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.

Also, throughout history there have been people who stayed true to the common salvation message first presented by the apostles. (Jude 3)
Works are not a ticket to heaven. We are saved and going to heaven by the Blood of Jesus the Christ .
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,791
6,356
113
Works are not a ticket to heaven. We are saved and going to heaven by the Blood of Jesus the Christ .
yes, saved by faith and trust in Christ alone.
contrary to what religious minded, works based salvationists think, there is no other way.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
All I can tell ya is read every passage in scripture about baptism. And believe what is written. It's really that simple.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
4,963
2,559
113
London
christianchat.com
Yeah, I know.

How about stating historic information from the historical record according to the writings of the ancient martyrs.

Well there ya have it.
none of the reformation martyrs were baptised according to scripture nor were any of the reformers. You

... take a hike
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,832
1,041
113
...

Our sins are remitted by Jesu's shed blood.
They are. Paul told us when this reality occurs for individuals who believe:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom. 6:3-6
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
4,963
2,559
113
London
christianchat.com
Where would American evangelicalism be without the Wesleys or George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards? none of whom were properly baptised according to scripture.

Baptism as necessary to salvation is false doctrine
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
4,963
2,559
113
London
christianchat.com
They are. Paul told us when this reality occurs for individuals who believe:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Rom. 6:3-6
Many of us believe Paul means something other than water baptism when he says baptised into Jesus Christ. Have you been baptised in the Holy Spirit?
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
Many of us believe Paul means something other than water baptism when he says baptised into Jesus Christ. Have you been baptised in the Holy Spirit?
That heresy wasn't even invented until the 1900s.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,832
1,041
113
he that is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than John.
You continue to change the subject. Even so, my sincere hope is that you gained understanding from the scriptures presented that addressed errors in what you had understood to be true.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,832
1,041
113
...and all because the dumb pastor didn't know how to use a blow torch! :rolleyes:



Agree. We get the Baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment we are saved and it's a done deal.
Why did Paul ask have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed if a person is filled with the Holy Ghost the instant they believe? His question makes the point that one does not automatically cause the other to become a reality. The experience recorded in Acts 19:1-6 further confirms this. The group believes Paul message concerning Jesus, they get rebaptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus, and afterward Paul lays hands on them and it is then that they receive the Holy Ghost.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/one-question-two-answers.207804/