Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
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There is no other way

They must repent and believe.

Then they will be justified, and then they will be regenerated because they were dead and are now made alive.
Only those who choose to believe correctly truly repent.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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Many people choosing to believe Jesus incorrectly is real.

Unelects is not in Scripture. Nor is elects in the sense you mean it. But I can't answer a made up word, no such thing or people as unelects in the Bible.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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I do,,

He died for the world. Period

You can't rewrite Scripture, what do they not get? It's ridiculous that someone is so brainwashed that they literally read the words in front of them then say " it doesn't say that". smh Looks like the Jews aren't the only ones blinded.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
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Re the original question... Jesus died for everyone.
The statement "Jesus died for everyone" is a central tenet of the Christian faith, reflecting the belief that Jesus' death on the cross provides salvation for all people who believe in Him. An exegetical analysis of this statement would involve examining the relevant biblical passages and their original language, including morphology.

One key passage supporting this statement is found in 1 Timothy 2:5-6, which states:
"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time."

In the original Greek, the phrase "who gave himself as a ransom for all people" is "ὁ δοὺς ἑαυτὸν ἀντίλυτρον ὑπὲρ πάντων" (ho dous heauton antilutron hyper panton). The word "ἀντίλυτρον" (antilutron) means "a ransom, a price paid for the release of a captive". The word "ὑπὲρ" (hyper) means "in behalf of, for the sake of". The phrase "ὑπὲρ πάντων" (hyper panton) means "for all, for everyone".

Another relevant passage is found in 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, which states:

"For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again."

In the original Greek, the phrase "one died for all" is "εἷς ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν" (eis hyper panton apethanen). The phrase "ὑπὲρ πάντων" (hyper panton) again means "for all, for everyone".

In summary, an exegetical analysis of the statement "Jesus died for everyone" would involve examining the relevant biblical passages, including their original language and morphology. The passages cited above support the idea that Jesus' death on the cross was a ransom paid for the release of all people, and that He died for all so that those who believe in Him may have eternal life.
J.
 

Johann

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Apr 12, 2022
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How does one believe in Jesus correctly? Please explain.
Believing in Jesus correctly involves three key components: knowledge, assent, and trust. Firstly, it requires having knowledge about who Jesus is, including his role as the promised Messiah, the Son of God, and the Savior of the world. Secondly, it involves assenting to this knowledge, which means agreeing with the scriptural teachings about Jesus.

However, mere knowledge and assent are not sufficient for salvation. The third and most crucial component is to trust in Jesus. This means embracing Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and personally relying on Him for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

The belief in Jesus is not merely acknowledging historical facts about Him, but rather trusting in Him personally as Lord and Savior. It is comparable to sitting in a chair; true belief is not just acknowledging that the chair can hold your weight, but actually relying on it to support you. Similarly, believing in Jesus entails relying on His sacrificial death and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and the assurance of eternal life.

In summary, believing in Jesus correctly involves having knowledge about Him, assenting to this knowledge, and ultimately trusting in Him as Lord and Savior for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.
J.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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The idea that it is by the faith of Christ that we believe in Christ is a theological interpretation that is based on certain passages in the New Testament. This interpretation emphasizes that the faith that saves us is not our own, but rather it is the faith of Jesus Christ that is imputed to us through our union with Him.
Yes, and that is what makes Christ the Saviour and man not.


The concept of the faith of Christ is based on passages such as Galatians 2:16, which states, "We know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." This verse emphasizes that our justification comes through faith in Jesus Christ, not through our own works.
No, it is actually saying that because we believe in Christ it is as a result of being justified by the faith of Christ. I realize it is initially difficult to see that. It also emphasizes that the faith OF Christ must come first in order to believe IN Christ.

Other verses that support the idea of the faith of Christ include Galatians 3:22, which states that the promise of salvation is given to those who have faith in Jesus Christ, and Philippians 3:9, which states that righteousness comes through faith in Christ, "the righteousness from God that depends on faith."
In Gal 3:22, it is the "promise" that might or might not be given depending upon whether the person was chosen to be imputed faith. The promise is BY the faith of Christ and those who receive faith also receive the promise. Those who believe have been imputed the faith of Christ, by which, they became, believers and also have the promise. The others, those still under sin, they do not receive faith and therefore do not receive the promise.

[Gal 3:22 KJV] 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Phl 3:9 says the faith OF Christ, not faith IN Christ. We can know that it is the faith OF Christ because it is the genitive case denoting ownership.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Overall, the concept of the faith of Christ emphasizes that our salvation is not based on our own works or efforts, but rather it is a gift of God that is received through faith in Jesus Christ. While this interpretation is a matter of theological debate, it is consistent with the broader themes of the New Testament and emphasizes the importance of faith in Christ for salvation.
I would have to disagree with your assessment that salvation is received through our faith IN Christ. Were it dependent upon ourselves producing faith to be saved, it would force us into being our own saviours, which would be impossible. Also, our faith would then become our work which can never bring salvation to anyone. Salvation is a free gift from God with no prerequisites whatsoever
required from those who receive it.

Like I have explained-tired and a bit worn down-but will come back to you and I hope you have a basic understanding in Greek and Hebrew-Later.
Johann.
Sure, I totally understand, I'm kinda tired too, so have a good night, Johann.





 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Sorry bud

The new covenant has always been to all nations. It was promised in Gen 12 In you challenge all nations be blessed

The promise given to a nation has never been spiritual. And was never given to any gentile.
No, only to the elect. All nations will be blessed because the elect come from people of all nations, creeds, colors, etc.

Never given to a gentile? Not sure what you mean by that.
 

Johann

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Apr 12, 2022
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It also emphasizes that the faith OF Christ must come first in order to believe IN Christ.
The faith OF Christ is actually and grammatically "faith IN Christ"-will show you this tomorrow.
J.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
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The faith OF Christ is actually and grammatically "faith IN Christ"-will show you this tomorrow.
J.
Both "faith of Christ" and "faith in Christ" are grammatically correct phrases, but they have different meanings.
"Faith of Christ" refers to the faith that Jesus Christ had during his time on earth. It is often used in theological discussions to refer to the perfect faith that Jesus had in God the Father. This phrase is found in the New Testament in Galatians 2:16, where it says, "yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by doing the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law."

On the other hand, "faith in Christ" refers to the belief and trust that a person has in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. This phrase is also found in the New Testament, such as in Ephesians 2:8-9, which says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast."


In summary, "faith of Christ" refers to the faith that Jesus had, while "faith in Christ" refers to the belief and trust that a person has in Jesus as their Savior.
J.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR



2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
 

blueluna5

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Jul 30, 2018
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God did not hate esau, like ytou and I think hate

He did not love his nation (edom) as much as he loved the nation of Jacob.
Well he hated him so much he basically cursed his descendents. 😬 that's intense to me.

"saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
[3] And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Actually I forgot Esau tried to kill Jacob. So it makes sense why God hated him like Cain actually.

I use to believe God loved everyone, but that's not what he Bible says.
 

Niki7

Well-known member
Feb 21, 2023
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Post #306, I believe.

Dodging which scripture?
I pointed out your obvious grammatical error. That, is not a personal attack. You can refer to God as 'him' meaning God declared Himself righteous. Yet, that is what you state.

It is utterly impossible to declare that the 'him' in the verse in question refers to God. Go tell that to an English professor and be prepared for incredulous looks.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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I use to believe God loved everyone, but that's not what he Bible says.
Jesus loved and died for every individual. It is sin which He hates. Those who He hated in the OT where pictures and symbols of sin. They represented far more than merely individuals. All men have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and it is to this group that John 3:16 is addressed.

Romans 3:23
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Regardless of what you believe about the OT times, we are living under a new and better time and Way. The atonement has been accomplished and the call has gone out to all.
 

selahsays

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May 31, 2023
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Only those who choose to believe correctly truly repent.
@MerSee Please consider that it is the Holy Spirit who quickens us.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

- Ephesians 2:1-9 (KJV)
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Please indicate where I insulted you. I won't hold my breath.

When you say personal things to people such as "It's absurd to you because you have no understanding of how to read Bible - you are blind to it, which is one reason why you come to so many unbiblical conclusions.", as you said to me, that is an insult and there is no basis for it. You are simply dodging scripture I presented.
Its how he rolls.. Since he cn’t stand on his own scripture. He must attach and belittle others..
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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In summary, "faith of Christ" refers to the faith that Jesus had, while "faith in Christ" refers to the belief and trust that a person has in Jesus as their Savior.
J.
I'm confused. So, then you're agreeing with me because I think that is what I have been saying (I just woke up so
I may not be fully functioning at this moment, nor have I had any coffee yet)? I would just add that our faith in Christ comes as a
result of the faith of Christ having been imputed to us.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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The faith OF Christ is actually and grammatically "faith IN Christ"-will show you this tomorrow.
J.
I did not interpret your later post (#371) to be saying that.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Well he hated him so much he basically cursed his descendents. 😬 that's intense to me.

"saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
[3] And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

Actually I forgot Esau tried to kill Jacob. So it makes sense why God hated him like Cain actually.

I use to believe God loved everyone, but that's not what he Bible says.
If I agree with you everyone will probably hate you for it, but yes, you are correct. In the spiritual sense,
God does not love everyone. Where I disagree is that God loves only those (past, present, future) justified by Christ. He does not love
the others because in not being justified by Him, they remain guilty of sin.