Do you believe in Cessationism or Continuationism? (poll)

[breno785au]

I think of miracles in the way I think of fireworks. First you have one go off here and there (like Old Testament prophets), for a long time. Then there's the grand finale (Miracles of Christ) and a whole bunch go off all at once. Then it's over and you only see smoke lines (apostles) in the shape of fireworks- which do not linger for long. Then silence (miraculous miracles ceased). Unexplainable things still happen through prayer, but no one is going to walk on water or be instantly cured of blindness.

Miracles had a purpose, and that purpose has been fulfilled. Miracles were for identification- to prove the prophets really were from God, to prove that Jesus truly was the Messiah, and to prove that the apostles were the men hand-picked by Christ in person.

But faith, hope, and love remain.

That's just theory, how do you explain the miracles, blind eyes opening, deaf ears hearing etc etc happening today? Your theory doesn't line up with what's actually happening.

 

[PurerInHeart]

I don't want to be argumentative :0 but you stated "Unexplainable things still happen through prayer," what is a miracle
BUt something that cannot be explained by the natural that has happened by a supernatural intervention. And if Prayer can cause that then I would have to ask then, do you mean the kind of prayers that they did in the Old testament? and in the New Testament? The prayers that Jesus did and the Apostles did ? If the answer is yes then I would think that with Prayer today unexplained things still happen by prayer and they are called by some Miracles as stated in the bible

I just don't know how to explain it well. I know that saying miraculous miracles is the same as saying miracle miracles. I think what happens through prayer IS miraculous- like someone's cancer is now gone. I guess the extremely shocking- like walking on water- those kind of miracles have ceased. Sorry if I can't quite get the right words, but there is a definite difference.

 

[BenFTW]

I just don't know how to explain it well. I know that saying miraculous miracles is the same as saying miracle miracles. I think what happens through prayer IS miraculous- like someone's cancer is now gone. I guess the extremely shocking- like walking on water- those kind of miracles have ceased. Sorry if I can't quite get the right words, but there is a definite difference.

So you still believe in healing and miracles (that pertain to healing) but you no longer believe signs and wonders, which can pertain to altering nature or defying the laws of physics. So you aren't exactly holding to a strict doctrine of cessationism, but something of the sort that denies certain gifts but not all.

 

[PurerInHeart]

That's just theory, how do you explain the miracles, blind eyes opening, deaf ears hearing etc etc happening today? Your theory doesn't line up with what's actually happening.

Amazing things happen through doctors, medicine, procedures, and prayer, but no one can just say, "You don't have to do anything, you don't even need to come, I just believe it will happen." And have a dead girl come back to life. No one heals instantly like Christ did, if the could, why won't they go to all the hospitals and free the people?

 

[CS1]

I just don't know how to explain it well. I know that saying miraculous miracles is the same as saying miracle miracles. I think what happens through prayer IS miraculous- like someone's cancer is now gone. I guess the extremely shocking- like walking on water- those kind of miracles have ceased. Sorry if I can't quite get the right words, but there is a definite difference.

I think you made your point very well .
Do you understand what the difference of biblical term of Interpretation known as a " Normative and Descriptive"?

 

[BenFTW]

That's just theory, how do you explain the miracles, blind eyes opening, deaf ears hearing etc etc happening today? Your theory doesn't line up with what's actually happening.

Not everyone is aware of those things taking place because it isn't in their paradigm. They don't see it because they don't believe it. There are testimonies of people revealing that God intervenes and they get a paradigm shift, haha. They didn't believe in healing, but then they attend a meeting or see videos of people healing in the name of Jesus. It baffles them. Maybe even they step out in faith and pray and people get healed! Then their cessationism ceases, lol.

 

[PurerInHeart]

So you still believe in healing and miracles (that pertain to healing) but you no longer believe signs and wonders, which can pertain to altering nature or defying the laws of physics. So you aren't exactly holding to a strict doctrine of cessationism, but something of the sort that denies certain gifts but not all.

I believe people can perform deceptive magic arts. And I believe the prayer of a righteous man does do powerful and unexplainable things. Yes, I guess you could say that, because even generosity is a gift. Love itself is a miracle- it is not the natural human response. But I don't believe the most instant and shocking miracles WILL happen today- like someone walking on water without trickery or device. (I say WILL happen instead of CAN'T happen, because I believe they still could happen today- just that they won't because it is not God's will.

 

[breno785au]

Amazing things happen through doctors, medicine, procedures, and prayer, but no one can just say, "You don't have to do anything, you don't even need to come, I just believe it will happen." And have a dead girl come back to life. No one heals instantly like Christ did, if the could, why won't they go to all the hospitals and free the people?

Perhaps maybe because people, including myself, don't fully know or understand their position in Christ. I've heard countless of first hand testimonies from close friends and seen many miracles of the deaf hearing, heck even deformed eyes from birth being fully restored!
Jesus didn't go door knocking saying I'm here to heal your sick, as far as I remember, the sick and the lame were brought to Him out of faith

 

[PurerInHeart]

I think you made your point very well .
Do you understand what the difference of biblical term of Interpretation known as a " Normative and Descriptive"?

There is no private interpretation. The bible answers itself. It matters not what terms mankind comes up with. For example, Paul left Timothy sick when he could have healed him, why? Because the miracles had a purpose, and convenience was not the purpose. Just like Jesus- He could have been the most famous doctor on earth. He could have made multiplying bread so much that hungry people would no longer exist. But the purpose is to test us and prepare us to live in a spiritual realm with Him, then destroy His garden (physicality).

 

[crossnote]

I voted 'continuationist but' believing the gifts continue but not the Offices e.g. of Prophet and Apostle.

 

[PurerInHeart]

Perhaps maybe because people, including myself, don't fully know or understand their position in Christ. I've heard countless of first hand testimonies from close friends and seen many miracles of the deaf hearing, heck even deformed eyes from birth being fully restored!
Jesus didn't go door knocking saying I'm here to heal your sick, as far as I remember, the sick and the lame were brought to Him out of faith

Im no stranger to the power of prayer. A couple in our congregation were barren. We prayed and prayed for them to get pregnant. Doctors said it couldn't happen. Their daughter was born only a pound big. He put his wedding ring on her wrist, and it was like a loose bracelet. They had to use doll clothes and doll diapers. We prayed and prayed for her to survive so that they could take her home. This girl is now a 25 year old woman, walking, talking, loving, brilliant. (Praise be to God).

I have had had times in my life when I could see no way out, or didn't know where my next meal would come from. But as He said, the righteous shall live by faith, and so I have. I am not blind to the power of a righteous man's prayer. However, instant and shocking things like walking on water will no longer happen.

 

[psychomom]

i'm sorry... was this wise? Ben, if i were your momma i'd ask what you were thinking??
of course, you have every right to make whatever thread and poll you like, and yet...

this forum has been so very volatile lately, i wonder was it wise to make it a poll?

i know firsthand the Lord still moves; miracles still happen...

but to take a topic that's polarizing by nature and make it a thread, much less a poll.... was that wise?

forgive me if i offend. i thought it best to say this in public.

i pray this isn't the beginning of 30 pages of heated bickering, for Jesus' sake, amen.

 

[CS1]

There is no private interpretation. The bible answers itself. It matters not what terms mankind comes up with. For example, Paul left Timothy sick when he could have healed him, why? Because the miracles had a purpose, and convenience was not the purpose. Just like Jesus- He could have been the most famous doctor on earth. He could have made multiplying bread so much that hungry people would no longer exist. But the purpose is to test us and prepare us to live in a spiritual realm with Him, then destroy His garden (physicality).

OK I did not say private interpretation. The question I asked was do you know what is descriptive and what is a normative in context to what the bible speaks on Healing and miracles?

 

[PurerInHeart]

i know firsthand the Lord still moves; miracles still happen...

but to take a topic that's polarizing by nature and make it a thread, much less a poll.... was that wise?

forgive me if i offend. i thought it best to say this in public.

i pray this isn't the beginning of 30 pages of heated bickering, for Jesus' sake, amen.
[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's wrong to discuss any bible topic. As far as I've seen everyone is speaking respectfully and sharing their thoughts. Isn't that the point of Bible Discussion?

 

[MsSuzanna]

Im no stranger to the power of prayer. A couple in our congregation were barren. We prayed and prayed for them to get pregnant. Doctors said it couldn't happen. Their daughter was born only a pound big. He put his wedding ring on her wrist, and it was like a loose bracelet. They had to use doll clothes and doll diapers. We prayed and prayed for her to survive so that they could take her home. This girl is now a 25 year old woman, walking, talking, loving, brilliant. (Praise be to God).

I have had had times in my life whenI could see no way out, or didn't know where my next meal would come from. But as He said, the righteous shall live by faith, and so I have. I am not blind to the power of a righteous man's prayer. However, instant and shocking things like walking on water will no longer happen.

Living by faith is how we are called to live. But your baptism saves belief isnt living by faith but it is works.
Just sayin............

 

[psychomom]

I don't think it's wrong to discuss any bible topic. As far as I've seen everyone is speaking respectfully and sharing their thoughts. Isn't that the point of Bible Discussion?

so far, by God's grace, we've all (with the possible exception of me) managed to keep a civil tongue in our heads.

 

[CS1]

I think you made your point very well .
Do you understand what the difference of biblical term of Interpretation known as a " Normative and Descriptive"?

Let me try to explain what I think the bible says about healing and miracles and explain Normative and descriptive thing shown in the bible.

Healing: is returning back to it's natural state : example you break a bone you set it and position it the part of the body and it will heal it's self this is a normative with the human body GOd created us that way unless there is a defect in the body.
Miracle: and unexplained event done in the natural by supernatural intervention
Jesus healed: blind eyes normative Jesus spit in dirt made mud put into the eyes of the blind man Descriptive.

why? because Jesus did not everytime he healed someone who was blind did HE spit and make mud to place in or on the eyes that is known as Descriptive= and event recorded in the Bible that was not something done all the time
BUT Healing is part of the divine Nature of God The LOrd God that Heal you That is a normative with God HE healed in the OLd and New Testament and He heals today

 

[PurerInHeart]

Living by faith is how we are called to live.
Just sayin............

It's what the bible SAYS. I gotta go make dinner, bbl.

I have removed your post at least some of it. Please be respectful and do not attack other and over run another post thank you

 

[Grace777x70]

Maybe we should just vote and not talk about it.....and let things lie where they are....if anyone is seriously interested in knowing if the gifts are for today, they can PM one that says it is for today and discuss it with them.

We are NOT going to change anyone's mind that already has it made up in this subject. This would stop any potential for bickering and hostility in this potentially volatile subject.

 

[CS1]

Maybe we should just vote and not talk about it.....and let things lie where they are....if anyone is seriously interested in knowing if the gifts are for today, they can PM one that says it is for today and discuss it with them.

We are NOT going to change anyone's mind that already has it made up in this subject. This would stop any potential for bickering and hostility in this potentially volatile subject.

( I might have to send a prophet and an apostle to deal with crossnote..lol..I know what he means and I agree too )

I am looking and I am trying to see where the trouble is here because the only thing that was eye catching was those who tried to turn it into something personal about baptism