Doctrine of Unconditional Election

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brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,491
113
63
#1
Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Click to expand...​
Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:​
I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,673
1,162
113
#2
Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,​
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.​
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:​
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;​
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.​
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:​
Click to expand...​
Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:​
I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !
Seem to me there is condition to receive the grace the condition is who so ever believe. Who solver believe will be ekect
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,491
113
63
#3
Mans portion is determined by the will of God, thus Paul says, " The purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth," ( Romans 9:11 ). Election is not based on any thing foreseen in the creature, but of the will of the God exclusively, and for His pleasure. Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Unconditional Election of some was for His Pleasure !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,491
113
63
#4
Seem to me there is condition to receive the grace the condition is who so ever believe. Who solver believe will be ekect
Thats maybe what it seems to you, but thats not the truth of the matter, I showed why in the op.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,187
2,875
113
#5
Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,​
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.​
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:​
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;​
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.​
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:​
Click to expand...​
Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:​
I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !
well, one issue is man has taken the word "Elect" and made it "selection".
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,673
1,162
113
#7
Thats maybe what it seems to you, but thats not the truth of the matter, I showed why in the op.
That may your opinion but the word say not only by grace the verse say by grace trough faith, you eliminate faith to support you believe

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through FAITH and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,491
113
63
#8
That may your opinion but the word say not only by grace the verse say by grace trough faith, you eliminate faith to support you believe

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through FAITH and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
I mentioned faith in my op.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,187
2,875
113
#9
Did you read the post carefully ?
I did.

Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19


as I said the issue is not the " elect' it is the election= selection now oh it is not just an election anymore but an unconditional election.

the word " Election " is said 6 times in the KJV all in the New Testament most in Romans chapter 11.

many will not quote 2Peter 2:10

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

what things must the elect do to keep them from falling? oh my, what do you ever mean Peter?


To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

said to the elect
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

what the elect must do


5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore,(what is the therefore therefore?) brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Oh my the elect can stumble? the elect must do something to ensure their calling is absolute? The Elect is not unconditional

they must remain in the faith.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
5,626
3,909
113
#12
If you can coneptualise more than 3 dimensions you probably won't have trouble understanding that predestination and free will both work together in God's salvation plan. Predestination alone amounts to God forcing his will on everyone he selects.
If that was the plan he could have avoided the whole Adam, Eve, tree, snake phase of creation & gone straight to almighty rule.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,491
113
63
#13
I did.

Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19


as I said the issue is not the " elect' it is the election= selection now oh it is not just an election anymore but an unconditional election.

the word " Election " is said 6 times in the KJV all in the New Testament most in Romans chapter 11.

many will not quote 2Peter 2:10

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

what things must the elect do to keep them from falling? oh my, what do you ever mean Peter?


To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

said to the elect
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

what the elect must do


5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore,(what is the therefore therefore?) brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Oh my the elect can stumble? the elect must do something to ensure their calling is absolute? The Elect is not unconditional

they must remain in the faith.
okay then you should realize Election is unconditional
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,491
113
63
#14
If you can coneptualise more than 3 dimensions you probably won't have trouble understanding that predestination and free will both work together in God's salvation plan. Predestination alone amounts to God forcing his will on everyone he selects.
If that was the plan he could have avoided the whole Adam, Eve, tree, snake phase of creation & gone straight to almighty rule.
Do you realize election is unconditional ?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,187
2,875
113
#16
okay then you should realize Election is unconditional
grace is unconditional to all if grace is only for the elect then it is no longer unconditional is it?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,491
113
63
#18
grace is unconditional to all if grace is only for the elect then it is no longer unconditional is it?
You lost me. What do you believe unconditional to mean ?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,673
1,162
113
#19
If you can coneptualise more than 3 dimensions you probably won't have trouble understanding that predestination and free will both work together in God's salvation plan. Predestination alone amounts to God forcing his will on everyone he selects.
If that was the plan he could have avoided the whole Adam, Eve, tree, snake phase of creation & gone straight to almighty rule.
God predestined Adam, Eve and their offspring to live in paradise with condition if they obey, God predestined people go to hell if they not obey
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
9,187
2,875
113
#20
You lost me. What do you believe unconditional to mean?
if the unconditional is continually relating to the " Elect" what is your understanding of unconditional?

IF elect means Only those who God has chosen then you have really made a mistake of Election.

the people of God are elect or known as God's elect. YET He chosen those who were not of those elected did HE not?

Did not salvation come to the gentiles who are NOT or were not the " Elect of God"?
it is one word people are making elite. This is how the Germanys killed the jews, this is how white supremacy has taken root in the protestant churches, the idea of God's elect focused on the flesh, not on the work of the Cross.

Don't take my word for it look at all those posts so far how many have even mentioned Jesus in them? elect, elect, elect, bla bla blah