Mailmandan- having received all authority, Jesus instructed his eleven disciples to make disciples of all nations by baptizing them and teaching them to observe all things commanded. If it is necessary to be a disciple then it sounds like it is necessary to be baptized. If it is not absolutely necessary to be baptized, then it sounds like it is not absolutely necessary to be a disciple. (Matt. 28: 18- 20) In another account Jesus instructed His people to go into all the world and preach the gospel—death for our sins, burial, resurrection—to all creation, he who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved, those that disbelieved will be condemned. Again it sounds to me that just believing by itself, although necessary, is not sufficient.
It may "sound" like that to you because that's what your itching ears want to hear, but that's not the case. Believing in Christ is sufficient (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..) or else these verses are a lie. God forbid! For you to say believing it not sufficient is for you to say the OBJECT of our belief (death, burial and resurrection of Christ) is not sufficient to save.
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. (John 3: 36) No, salvation does not rest on faith, it rest on grace. Faith is the introductory connection to grace but it is not the only connection.
Salvation is by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). I see that the word "obey" in John 3:36 (NASB) has confused you into believing that salvation is by works. In John 3:36, "He that BELIEVES on the Son has everlasting life".. *Notice that this BELIEF is not in yourself, getting baptized, church attendance, or any other type of good work. Notice also that this BELIEF is not in Jesus Christ "plus something else," otherwise the BELIEF (trust, reliance) would not be "ON THE SON".
In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, obeying the Son here does not mean salvation by works, but obey by choosing to believe on the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes
and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe on the Son. The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NKJV says "does not believe the Son" and the NIV says "rejects the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message by refusing to believe on the Son. Seeking salvation by works is not obeying Him.
Both faith and love are perfected by obedience.
I have discussed this with you numerous times before. In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete, just like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. Yet Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) many years before offering up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
We are commanded not only to believe the gospel but to obey the gospel.
*We
obey the gospel by
choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all
obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has
believed our report?"
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the
power of God unto salvation for everyone who
BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).
The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of all who believe/trust in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation.
IMO we do this—die, buried, arise—when we are baptized into Christ and into his death.
False. You are confusing the picture of the reality, with the reality itself. We do this when we believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
(Rom. 6: 3-7) Is it absolutely necessary to die with Him? Yes, I believe it is, if we hope to live with Him. Those who do not obey the gospel—be baptized—await eternal destruction. (2 Thess. 1: 8, 9)
False. The gospel is not "water baptized or condemned." Those who do not obey the gospel are those who refuse to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16). In regards to Romans 6:3-7, you are confusing the picture with the reality. *As Greek scholar AT Robertson explains: "The picture in baptism points two ways, backwards to Christ's death and burial and to our death to sin, forwards to Christ's resurrection from the dead and to our new life pledged by the coming out of the watery grave to walk on the other side of the baptismal grave. There is the further picture of our own resurrection from the grave. It is a tragedy that Paul's majestic picture here has been so blurred by controversy that some refuse to see it".
It should be said also that a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.
Hermeneutics- great emphasis is placed upon believing as it is the introductory factor into the grace of God but it is not the only factor nor is it the greatest factor. (1 Cor. 13: 13) Faith without love is meaningless; without works it is dead and useless. Did Jesus mention hope and love in those verses you cited? Why not? Are they necessary? God reveals His will as he wills. Descriptive or prescriptive? Wow!
You continue to confuse descriptive passages of Scripture with prescriptive passages of Scripture and you also confuse God's will for us to become saved and God's will for us after we have been saved.
If someone has genuine saving faith in Christ and have received the Holy Spirit, it would be impossible for them to have NO love at all. Paul uses hyperbole (obvious and intentional exaggeration) about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love.
Paul is not exaggerating about the importance of love though. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith + acts of love.
Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his redeemed people are and do. We won't need faith and hope in heaven.
So in 1 Corinthians 13:13, Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith is insufficient to save us without our best efforts to love. All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because we have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).
I already explained this to you here in post #301 -
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ches-baptism-commanded-remission-sins-16.html
John 8: 51 Jesus begins with the double amen which usually signifies something important. It sounds like the believer needs to keep His word, not merely believe if he wants to live.
"Keep His word" is descriptive of believers, not unbelievers. Keep His word is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers. It's not about must or else, but will.
Matt. 7: 19 Not only do we need to believe but we need to bear good fruit or suffer the consequences.
Bearing good fruit is also descriptive of believers, not unbelievers and is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers. We are saved by the former (believing in Him) and not the latter (bearing good fruit) yet your focus relies heavily on the latter with a flawed emphasis on the former, which is typical of someone who teaches salvation by works.
Our faith works in love with the works of faith Jesus has prescribed, to perfect our faith; we are saved by a perfected faith, a loving, obedient faith. We obey not to score brownie points but to perfect our faith. God bless.
What you are saying here is that we are saved by faith (your version of faith) + obedience/works. Was Abraham's faith accounted for righteousness when he believed God in Genesis 15:6 or not until many years later, after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22 and his faith was said to be perfected in James 2:22? Obviously, it was in Genesis 15:6. Why do you continue to pervert the gospel of Christ? which is the
power of God unto salvation for everyone who
BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). When will you BELIEVE?