Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,736
5,584
113
62
... while they also claim they had no choice in the matter...
Understanding how salvation transpires and why it takes place as it does would alleviate alot of the confusion. But the Bible is written in such a way as to confound the wise.

If you speak to a Calvinist long enough, you can get them to consent that the new believer of their own volition, choose obedience as their choice to the actions of God that wrought salvation. But because the natural man is at enmity with God, he believes God must first circumcise the heart to effect such change.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
1,266
194
63
Understanding how salvation transpires and why it takes place as it does would alleviate alot of the confusion. But the Bible is written in such a way as to confound the wise.
Not to confound the wise of this world.... which are the wise God confounds.

The Bible is written in such a way as to confound the wise?

Its written in such a way as to amaze those who are gaining in wisdom....
And, to baffle those who have yet to learn how to grow in grace.
We all were baffled at one time....
Not everyone remains there is they find a good pastor-teacher.

Most will end up seeking a pastor who only will tell them what he knows they want to hear.
A pastor not wishing to endure believers when needing to tell them what they need to hear in order to grow.

For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.​
2 Timothy 4:3​

That means?

Those believers who will settle for nothing but sound doctrine? They will be in a minority.
That is why Jesus warned that only a few will find it.

... grace and peace
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
1,266
194
63
Read the passage, it tells us what the election was for
You are misreading that passage...

Cite the passage again and don't be lazy, please!
Repetition is a part of the teaching process, so those who are truly learning can get it.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,736
5,584
113
62
They choose rather to use the term "irresistible" grace. (no choice)
Whatever they call it, they recognize that those whose disposition that is opposed to God at an internal level that only God can change, cannot help themselves.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
3,413
581
113
... while they also claim they had no choice in the matter...
Isn't that something?
From the "same mouth" they proclaim, God does "not force" anyone to be saved but I had "no choice" in the matter but to be saved.

The stupid is alive and breathing with this doctrine.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,736
5,584
113
62
Not to confound the wise of this world.... which are the wise God confounds.

The Bible is written in such a way as to confound the wise?

Its written in such a way as to amaze those who are gaining in wisdom....
And, to baffle those who have yet to learn how to grow in grace.
We all were baffled at one time....
Not everyone remains there is they find a good pastor-teacher.

Most will end up seeking a pastor who only will tell them what he knows they want to hear.
A pastor not wishing to endure believers when needing to tell them what they need to hear in order to grow.

For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.​
2 Timothy 4:3​

That means?

Those believers who will settle for nothing but sound doctrine? They will be in a minority.
That is why Jesus warned that only a few will find it.

... grace and peace
You have a grandiose way of saying the obvious.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
1,266
194
63
I did and either you couldn't understand or missed my reply. There are two kinds of sin: 1) sin against Christ as Saviour and
2) carnal, temporal sins of this world. To sin against Christ, unless becoming saved, results in eternal damnation. If guilty of that at the judgment, then any other sin that may have been committed, even though being earthly sin, pales in comparison as to effect.
It is like a mole hill being compared to Mount Everest. If one suffers eternal damnation, then can anything lesser mitigate that
condemnation or make it better?

Provide the post where I said "they do not sin anymore" so I can see exactly what you're referring to.

And by the way, no one made you a judge of my replies. I will reply how I want, when I want and if you don't
like them, that's your problem, not mine. I am not indebted or subservient to you to have to provide you any justification.
All sin is against the Lord!

Psalm 51:1-4

For the director of music. A psalm of David. When the prophet Nathan
came to him after David had committed adultery with Bathsheba.
Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.
For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.
Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight;
so you are right in your verdict
and justified when you judge.

David sinned against Uriah and Bathsheba....
He committed adultery and murder.
Yet? It was against the Lord alone that David sinned!

All sin is ultimately against the Lord.
All types of sin cuts us off from the filling of the Spirit,
as to render the believer to be walking in his emotions.

Walking in emotions = dumb thinking with the Word of God...
Though, thinking he is wise. = Self righteousness.

God does not compromise with His Word nor a believer.
Stick with what it says.

He no respecter of persons.


grace and peace .........
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,058
525
113
It clearly shows that it was Christ who is foreknown as the ONE to bring salvation that future believers would be IN before the foundation of the world. Odd for a self proclaimed Christian to miss that view to promote the self view that cannot happen without Christ.
The passage also shows that Election, having been chosen in Christ before the foundation is part of Paul's Gospel message and it was heard in the Gospel they heard of him in Eph 1:13, so was being predestinated Vs 5
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,058
525
113
I am not talking to unbelievers. Only to those who promote FALSE DOCTRINE! Interesting that you would even comment on it.
Thats not Gospel nor salvation. Jesus is speaking of believers already saved and God is their Father, so it hasn't nothing to do with the unbelieving world.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,058
525
113
Jesus to be Savior and the WAY for believers to be everything listed in/by/through CHRIST JESUS!

Remove Jesus from Ephesians chapter 1 verses 3-5 and how can believers be Blessed, Chosen in Him, and adopted sons of God?

They cant!

So it is ALL about JESUS!
Read the passage, it tells us what the election was for
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,058
525
113
You are misreading that passage...

Cite the passage again and don't be lazy, please!
Repetition is a part of the teaching process, so those who are truly learning can get it.
Read the passage, it tells us what the election was for
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
1,266
194
63
Whatever they call it, they recognize that those whose disposition that is opposed to God at an internal level that only God can change, cannot help themselves.
The soul is not fallen.
The flesh that dominates the soul is fallen.

God's grace restrains the flesh BY GRACE. (we are saved by grace)
In that way?
The soul is made free to make its choice!
For by grace its the flesh (sin nature) that God forces to "do nothing."
God does not force the soul to choose as it will.

We need to get this straight to end the confusion (and conflicts) that different camps repeating memorized dogma produces.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
3,413
581
113
The passage also shows that Election, having been chosen in Christ before the foundation is part of Paul's Gospel message and it was heard in the Gospel they heard of him in Eph 1:13, so was being predestinated Vs 5
No, it shows that from beginning the plan is for anyone saved will be saved by Jesus.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
3,413
581
113
Thats not Gospel nor salvation. Jesus is speaking of believers already saved and God is their Father, so it hasn't nothing to do with the unbelieving world.
I wasn't talking about salvation. I was talking to people calling themselves Christian.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,736
5,584
113
62
The soul is not fallen.
The flesh that dominates the soul is fallen.

God's grace restrains the flesh BY GRACE. (we are saved by grace)
In that way?
The soul is made free to make its choice!
For by grace its the flesh (sin nature) that God forces to "do nothing."
God does not force the soul to choose as it will.

We need to get this straight to end the confusion (and conflicts) that different camps repeating memorized dogma produces.
Jeremiah 17:9 describes the heart of the natural man. It is in bad shape. That's why it is circumcised in salvation.
And I'm not in a camp. I despise camping.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,736
5,584
113
62
Believers deny the obvious.

Its not grandiose....

Its just not shy and timid like Timothy's approach.
Your first statement is true. But you can't even see your own insensitivity and pride. Much truth is left unheard as the messenger tramples all over their own message.