End time signs in Amillennialism?

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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Jesus christ is come in the flesh.

Garee sorry you have some gnostic ideas that pollute everything you write on here. Blessed are those whove not seen yet believed, well we dont yet see but we still believe. Who was he talking about...the gentiles. Jesus walked on earth for 33 and a half years everyone could see him and touch him. But when he was taken up to heaven people couldnt see him anymore. He sent Paul to witness to him to the Gentiles, so Paul was talking about Jesus and preaching but no gentiles actually saw jesus in person did they. They got given gift of holy spirit which we cant see but we see the works and signs and wonders thatbthe holy spirit does to point to Jesus.

Thomas wasnt faithless it was simply Jesus hadnt appeared to him yet like he appeared to all others after his resurrection he was the only one who missed out cos he wasnt there at the time!

Duh!
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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Jesus christ is come in the flesh.

Garee sorry you have some gnostic ideas that pollute everything you write on here. Blessed are those whove not seen yet believed, well we dont yet see but we still believe. Who was he talking about...the gentiles. Jesus walked on earth for 33 and a half years everyone could see him and touch him. But when he was taken up to heaven people couldnt see him anymore. He sent Paul to witness to him to the Gentiles, so Paul was talking about Jesus and preaching but no gentiles actually saw jesus in person did they. They got given gift of holy spirit which we cant see but we see the works and signs and wonders thatbthe holy spirit does to point to Jesus.

Thomas wasnt faithless it was simply Jesus hadnt appeared to him yet like he appeared to all others after his resurrection he was the only one who missed out cos he wasnt there at the time!

Duh!
Very gnostic ideas.

These are very ancient and pagan ideas, that the spiritual is good, and the physical is bad.
These are not Biblical ideas.
This is all very platonisitic, and very gnostic.
..
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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When God created the world, he said it was all good.
We now live in a fallen version of God's beautiful physical world... but the physical is not bad simply because it is physical.
That's a very pagan idea.
..
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Well, we interpret scripture differently. To me, there's nothing of the human body alone that is sinful. To me, Jesus is only likened as sinful by those who called him a sinner.
Hi thanks for the reply.

Likened as sinful does not mean guilty of sinning. Corrupted flesh is the result of sin or the emblem or mark of sin . The cross is a emblem of His righteousness imputed to us by His faith that works in us with us to both will and do his good pleasure .
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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I do confess he came once, as a promised demonstration. That demonstration is over.

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any "daysman" betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.Job 9:32-33

And yes I do know there is one mediator between God and man.... the MAN Christ Jesus . But that mediation is not reckoned after the corrupted flesh as that seen. The Son of man refused to called a "daysman as a fleshly mediator" to infallibly umpire between the things of men seen and those of God not seen. God will simply not share His glory with flesh that represents sin .The Son of man said His flesh profits for nothing.

When called good Master knowing it is impossible to serve two . The Son of man seen gave glory to the unseen holy place of God. and said in effect; Only God not seen is good we walk by faith. Good is defined by our unseen God. God unseen saw the light, that it was good. It established the unseen witness of His word. .

Genesis 1:4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
You case here makes no sense to me. Jesus was resurrected in the flesh, ascended in the flesh, and will reign forever alive. Not one scripture you've given contradicts this. I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're saying here. If Jesus is no longer flesh then what happen to His body, and where does His word tell us He left it? I think you're just wrong here, which I have to say is kind of weird because everything else you are saying I really agree with. Where does scripture tell us Jesus shed Hid body after Thomas touched the scars left from His physical crucifixion and resurrection? This is strait up Gnostic teaching.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Very gnostic ideas.

These are very ancient and pagan ideas, that the spiritual is good, and the physical is bad.
These are not Biblical ideas.
This is all very platonisitic, and very gnostic.
..

Plato is dead.

New spirit is life is good, and the physical without the spirit is dead never to rise. It is bad.

It is more about being corrupted than bad. Bad is the end of dying never to rise.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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You case here makes no sense to me. Jesus was resurrected in the flesh, ascended in the flesh, and will reign forever alive. Not one scripture you've given contradicts this. I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're saying here. If Jesus is no longer flesh then what happen to His body, and where does His word tell us He left it? I think you're just wrong here, which I have to say is kind of weird because everything else you are saying I really agree with. Where does scripture tell us Jesus shed Hid body after Thomas touched the scars left from His physical crucifixion and resurrection? This is strait up Gnostic teaching.
Hi thanks for the reply amd a opportunity to share my bread (opinion) My two cents

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corinthians 5:16

Thomas is one of those in the above reference who did know Christ after the flesh by which we know him that way never again . He was called faithless when he did seek to know God after the flesh, as a sign The unbelieving Jews performed that like faithless Thomas over and over with Christ .Show us a sign and then we will believe. No sign was given .They were called a evil generation the generation of Adam natural unconverted mankind

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Jesus was resurrected in the flesh, ascended in the spirit essence of life , and as the Son of God will reign forever alive.

He was not declared to be the Son of man pertaing to the flash as that seen with power . But the unseen spirit of holiness .The flesh profits for nothing. God is not a man as us No such thing as the flesh of holiness.

Romans 1:3-4 King James Version (KJV)Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the "Son of God" with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Again Son of God with power not Son of man powerless No profit from the flesh
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Jesus christ is come in the flesh.

Garee sorry you have some gnostic ideas that pollute everything you write on here.
Bro, i wanted to type this but I refrained from using the word gnostic, since I just really like garee for some reason, he seems to me like a regular humble guy, who is always polite and friendly, never have I seen him mouth off to anyone (like I do, lol) or be mean or condescending!

But yes, some of the things seem gnostic to me, and it is scary, i got gnostic-phobia.

There is nothing inherently evil with teh flesh itself. If you look up the word in the greek its "sarx" which is literally just a piece of meat, its like a clay mug. Nothing to it!
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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I also just wanted to say to garee and Journeyman that this has truly been a refreshing conversation in CC. Not because we all agree, or even that we were just so a"PC" to each other, but we've had pretty serious discussion and, to me at least, it was a thought provoking, make you "grab your bible and find out", kind of discussion. I truly appreciate it and hope you all have a great night.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Bro, i wanted to type this but I refrained from using the word gnostic, since I just really like garee for some reason, he seems to me like a regular humble guy, who is always polite and friendly, never have I seen him mouth off to anyone (like I do, lol) or be mean or condescending!

But yes, some of the things seem gnostic to me, and it is scary, i got gnostic-phobia.

There is nothing inherently evil with teh flesh itself. If you look up the word in the greek its "sarx" which is literally just a piece of meat, its like a clay mug. Nothing to it!

I would agree there is nothing evil in itself save the evil one. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood and neither does it profit for quickening our souls giving them new spirit life..
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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Hi thanks for the reply.

Likened as sinful does not mean guilty of sinning.
Thats the point. The Jews were governed by the Torah. Sins were crimes to them. Jesus was likened as sinful, or as a criminal by the religious leaders, not by his Father.

Corrupted flesh is the result of sin or the emblem or mark of sin.
It doesn't apply to Jesus,

Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Act. 13:35

The cross is a emblem of His righteousness imputed to us by His faith that works in us with us to both will and do his good pleasure .
Well it is, but because he remained true to God and his word (himself) despite the unrighteousness done to him.

For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully....because Christ also suffered for us 1Pet.2:19,21
 
Dec 27, 2018
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I will say it again....IT is IDIOTIC to believe or think the END OF THE AGE came and WENT in 70 A.D.
Now I disagree with preterism. But this shows blatant disrespect over a non-essential issue.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Thats the point. The Jews were governed by the Torah. Sins were crimes to them. Jesus was likened as sinful, or as a criminal by the religious leaders, not by his Father.

It doesn't apply to Jesus,

Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Act. 13:35


Well it is, but because he remained true to God and his word (himself) despite the unrighteousness done to him.

For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully....because Christ also suffered for us 1Pet.2:19,21

By the outward standard of Jesus' flesh it is signified as sinful . Corrupted flesh and blood is the result of sin or the emblem or mark of sin. The mark of Cain .

Of Christ's own temporal flesh he declared it does not profit as if the things seen are spiritual. turning things upside down

There was a change in the garden from before it was corrupted. God did not create corrupted flesh and blood. The whole creation is corrupted losing it previous glory before the spirit of glory departed never to return to this fallen creation. . What we were before the veil of God was set down hiding the previous glory of a perfect creation we do not know. . Mankind saw it when it disappeared showing he was naked and tried a alternate way of covering his shame, a body of death to no avail.

No one knows what they appeared as. Just as we are not what we will be when we receive our new incorruptible bodies that will never age in a process of dying and death . Death and destruction will be cast in the lake of fire on the last day

Not the cause of sin, corruption the result. The cause....unbelief "no faith"
 
Mar 28, 2016
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It doesn't apply to Jesus,

Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Act. 13:35
Hi, I would offer it was like time standing still . His body without the Spirt that returned to the father was being preserved Just as if the Spirit did not depart. Because the flesh of Christ which he declared profits for nothing is that as not the source of power to forgive but the source to demonstrate the unseen work of Christ.

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV)Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

By the resurrection from the dead. . . not by His birth. The finishing with God is always better than the beginning of a matter.

No such thing as the flesh of holiness . Flesh without the spirit has no breath of life.

Being born into the world as the Son on man, according to the flesh , Jesus.. Proving the Spirit within him was the power of the Son of God, not seen.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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[QUOTE="dcontroversal,
I will say it again....IT is IDIOTIC to believe or think the END OF THE AGE came and WENT in 70 A.D.
[/QUOTE]

Revelation 1:19
"Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things."

Could the preterist view, the historicist view, and the futurist view all be present in the Book of Revelation?
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
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[QUOTE="dcontroversal,
I will say it again....IT is IDIOTIC to believe or think the END OF THE AGE came and WENT in 70 A.D.
Revelation 1:19
"Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things."

Could the preterist view, the historicist view, and the futurist view all be present in the Book of Revelation?[/QUOTE]

Sorry friend. My post was not meant to be here. I am showing DC in another threadthat he often insults people and that it is not appropriate behavior for a Christian
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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[QUOTE="dcontroversal,
I will say it again....IT is IDIOTIC to believe or think the END OF THE AGE came and WENT in 70 A.D.
Revelation 1:19
"Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things."

Could the preterist view, the historicist view, and the futurist view all be present in the Book of Revelation?[/QUOTE]

Not hardly! For they are all completely different beliefs. For example, the historicist interprets the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments as representing historic events beginning after the first century. While the futurist understands those events to be interpreted in their plain literal meaning and as taking place in close proximity leading up to the Lord's literal return to the earth to end the age.

I completely agree with dcontroversal in that, it is idiotic and completely ridiculous to even entertain the belief that the end of the age came and went in 70 A.D. Jesus' return is synonymous with Nebuchadnezzar's statue, which represents all human government, with the ten toed kingdom being yet future. The Rock/Jesus falls on the feet of the statue smashing it to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor, blown away by the wind without leaving a trace. Prior to the Lord's return, the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be poured out upon the earth and its inhabitants, which will decimate the majority of the earths population and dismantle all human government. Since the statue represents all human government, the reference to "the wind blowing it away without leaving a trace" is referring to the end of all human government. Then the scripture states that, the Rock/Jesus will become a huge mountain and fill the entire earth, which is referring to the establishment of the Lord's millennial kingdom.

Therefore, the end of the age could not have possibly have taken place, because when Jesus returns, that will be the end of all Gentile human governments. And immediately following that will be the establishment of the Lord's kingdom on earth, when He sits upon the throne of king David and rules from Jerusalem, as the scriptures proclaim.

In addition, here is the meaning of Rev.1:19

What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19

What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches, which also represents the entire church period

What will take place later
= Everything that happens after the "what is now," i.e. what happens after the church period

We are still in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write. Once the Lord appears and gathers the church, then the "what must take place later" will begin, which is coming very quickly.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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I will say it again....IT is IDIOTIC to believe or think the END OF THE AGE came and WENT in 70 A.D.

Revelation 1:19"Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things."

Could the preterist view, the historicist view, and the futurist view all be present in the Book of Revelation?
Looks like the Amil view fits. He will come as a thief in the night on the last day. We are the last days. They began at the time of reformation. The veil is rent. The spirit of the antichrists has been reveled no signs to fulfill as wonders could be tomorrow .

Thousand, as a metaphor used in parables represents a unknown defined as .. the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,737
838
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Revelation 1:19
"Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things."

Could the preterist view, the historicist view, and the futurist view all be present in the Book of Revelation?
Not hardly! For they are all completely different beliefs. For example, the historicist interprets the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments as representing historic events beginning after the first century. While the futurist understands those events to be interpreted in their plain literal meaning and as taking place in close proximity leading up to the Lord's literal return to the earth to end the age.

I completely agree with dcontroversal in that, it is idiotic and completely ridiculous to even entertain the belief that the end of the age came and went in 70 A.D. Jesus' return is synonymous with Nebuchadnezzar's statue, which represents all human government, with the ten toed kingdom being yet future. The Rock/Jesus falls on the feet of the statue smashing it to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor, blown away by the wind without leaving a trace. Prior to the Lord's return, the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be poured out upon the earth and its inhabitants, which will decimate the majority of the earths population and dismantle all human government. Since the statue represents all human government, the reference to "the wind blowing it away without leaving a trace" is referring to the end of all human government. Then the scripture states that, the Rock/Jesus will become a huge mountain and fill the entire earth, which is referring to the establishment of the Lord's millennial kingdom.

Therefore, the end of the age could not have possibly have taken place, because when Jesus returns, that will be the end of all Gentile human governments. And immediately following that will be the establishment of the Lord's kingdom on earth, when He sits upon the throne of king David and rules from Jerusalem, as the scriptures proclaim.

In addition, here is the meaning of Rev.1:19

What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19

What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches, which also represents the entire church period

What will take place later = Everything that happens after the "what is now," i.e. what happens after the church period

We are still in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write. Once the Lord appears and gathers the church, then the "what must take place later" will begin, which is coming very quickly.


Just wow. What fruit are you producing in this world with your "the sky is falling" approach? Why build the kingdom in a world where sin wins until the 2nd coming. It's going to get bad so why bother kingdom building in a world that's going to hell in a hand basket.

To be honest I see your whole view a complete waste of time and effort. We are told not to worry about the future and live right here and now and in the way or King commands. All I ever see you doing is worrying about/talking about/focused on the future, and now joining in on insulting and mocking brothers that don't believe the fairy tale of a rapture, and please save your time and effort trying to convince me. Shoot you've already named me an idiot and completely ridiculous anyway, so I probably wouldn't understand it. You go ahead and hunker down waiting for a rapture, I'm going to go out and declare the victory of my King seated at the right hand of God, RIGHT NOW, with ALL authority in heaven and on earth, and I'm going to proclaim His power, not preach how evil will win first. That's all you "brother", I'll just sit over here like an idiot with hope of a future for my kids.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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Just wow. What fruit are you producing in this world with your "the sky is falling" approach?
I could ask you the same question, as to how you don't know about these things? The fruit that I am producing, is the same information that the word of God teaches! The majority of the book of Revelation is given to God's coming wrath, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses will bring about. The sky is in deed about to fall and anyone who has not received Christ prior to the day of the Lord, or those who have gone back to living according to the sinful nature, will be caught in it like a trap! This time of wrath is referred to by Jesus in following manner, which supports my post:

"“Be careful, or your (believers) hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened."

Why build the kingdom in a world where sin wins until the 2nd coming. It's going to get bad so why bother kingdom building in a world that's going to hell in a hand basket.
Believers are not building a kingdom in this world. We are preaching the gospel and being an example and a restraining force. Jesus will establish His kingdom when He returns to the earth to end the age. But prior to that, the restrainer/Holy Spirit, will continue to restrain the full force of sin and the man of sin, until He (and the church with Him) will be taken out of the way and then that man of lawlessness will be revealed.

To be honest I see your whole view a complete waste of time and effort. We are told not to worry about the future and live right here and now and in the way or King commands.
I'm not talking about true believers worrying about the future, but to know what the word of God has to say about it. The book of Revelation from chapter 4 on-ward is a book of the future and we are to warn unbelievers about God's coming wrath, which they can escape through by believing in Christ. You are obviously one who has not studied end-time events and so you really can't comment on it. In opposition, God drew me to the study of end-time events from the very beginning of my journey in Christ. And regarding the book of Revelation and the future, we read the following:

"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

Therefore, how can we teach the book of Revelation unless we study it and all related end-time scriptures?

All I ever see you doing is worrying about/talking about/focused on the future, and now joining in on insulting and mocking brothers that don't believe the fairy tale of a rapture, and please save your time and effort trying to convince me.
The gathering of the church is not a fairy tail, but a promise from the Lord, also called "the blessed hope."

In John 14:1-3, the Lord said that He was going to the Father's house to prepare places for all who believed in Him and that He was going to come back and take us back to those places that He prepared for us. This is no fairytale in that, if you read the scripture in its plain, literal meaning, then the Lord meant what He said. How can you call the following a fairytale:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."

* The Lord Himself will come down from heaven

* The dead in Christ will rise first (resurrection)

* Those who are sill alive in Christ will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet to the Lord in the air

* Then the Lord will take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He prepared for us

Regardless of where anyone stands regarding the timing of the event above, because it is written, it must take place. Yet, you and others call it a fairytale.

Shoot you've already named me an idiot and completely ridiculous anyway, so I probably wouldn't understand it. You go ahead and hunker down waiting for a rapture, I'm going to go out and declare the victory of my King seated at the right hand of God, RIGHT NOW, with ALL authority in heaven and on earth, and I'm going to proclaim His power, not preach how evil will win first. That's all you "brother", I'll just sit over here like an idiot with hope of a future for my kids.
I have not named you as an idiot, but as ignorant, as well as with everyone else who resist the truth. It seems that it is always those who don't study end-time events are the one's resisting and denying it. Why is it always the same with those who think like you, that you can only do one or the other? Can we not preach the gospel and proclaim the whole word of God? Why are we only to do one thing and ignore the rest of God's word? For I also testify about Jesus, as well as teach about all the other Biblical topics.

By the way, evil is not winning. However, the beast will be given power to make war and to conquer the great tribulation saints during the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. And the Lord will return to the earth to end the age and will have the beast and the false prophet captured and thrown into the lake of fire. Immediately after that, a mighty angel will seize Satan and cast him into the Abyss and lock it over him so that he cannot deceive the nations during the Lord's millennial kingdom.

The future with your kids is not on this earth. This earth is passing away. But before it does, the church must be removed, then God's wrath must take place and then the Lord will return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. Yours and your kids hope should not for this world, but in the appearing of Christ, our blessed hope.

"Do not treat prophecies with contempt."