Faith comes by "hearing", "hearing" by the word of God ? You decide .

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Pisteuo

Guest
#1
If you have been following the other two threads , ( Rom. 8:9 and our walk with Christ , repentance and the Salvation journey ) I have shown that because at the beginning of the Salvation journey , we don't have the Spirit of Christ yet ,. Christ , His Word , and the promises in His word are not ours to claim yet . Therefore , " believing " then recieving His Spirit at this beginning stage would be claiming something that is not ours yet .

This misunderstanding of how Faith ( pistis ) is applied ( pisteuo ) is from the English language not having a verb form of Faith , which should have been the words (faithe , faither , and faithing ). When they had to choose another word ( believe , believer , and believing ) it seemingly started a process of perverting or understanding it backwards . I think I made a good argument in the first two threads , here is another understanding I would like to share for discussion .

And here is my disclaimer , I don't mean to upset people or cause distention here . I've thought about and concidered these understandings daily for over 30 years . I would feel right within myself if didn't share this for your consideration .

Ok , here we are at the start of our Salvation journey . We are being drawn or called out by the Father to Christ . We repent by making a mental turn from our way to His way . We then take our first step of Faith ( pisteuo , faithing ) .

In today's church world , that step is " believing " in What God has done and promises ( His Word ) , then recieving His Spirit . As I stated , this isn't possible due to at the beginning state , none of those things are ours yet . At this stage , " believing in God Word " is not a true act of pisteuo or faithing .

So , this is where Rom. 10:17 comes in . One might say " Faith comes by hearing , hearing by the Word of God ." And this proves that the hearing of Gods word is " the " act of pisteuo or faithing .

Over the years , something about Rom. 10:17 just didn't sit right with me . First , it was the fact Gods word wasn't available for public consumption until the 1500's. My funny brain asked , how did people all over the world get access to God's word before that , before it was put together ? I realize , a few had access to the spoken word , does that mean the Father could only call those in that specific vicinity ? If the Father called someone in the year 32 ad on the other side of the world , they would have access to " believe " His Word hence could not respond in Faith.

Second , I decided to dig into Rom.10:17 deeper . When I did it took me to my Interlineal Bible , and then to my Strongs expanded .

This is what I found .
The Greek word the Writers used to communicate the word "hearing" is 189 akoe . This is the exact definition from the Strongs specific to Rom. 10:17 word for word .

( 7b ) " the recieving of a message " Rom. 10:17 , something more than a mere sense of " hearing "; an interaction with the Word and a decision is always made. [ Compare to a courtroom hearing ].

Now submitting the fact I've always known we don't accept Christ , He accepts us , I was looking at this with some big questions .

1) since this is a courtroom type of hearing , is it ever ok to put Christ or His word on trial ? Where we sit on the judgement seat and Christ or His Word is on trial ?

2) were taught never to judge each other , but it's ok to judge Christ and His Word ?

3) shouldn't Christ be on the judgement seat , and we have something that needs to be on trial ?

My conclusion , is that when they translated the Greek into the English language , they may have left out just two letters in Rom. 10:17 that again , gave a backwards understanding .

Here is how I understand Rom. 8:9 should read , with a correct application of pisteuo or faithing .

Rom. ,8:9 should read , " Faith comes by " A " hearing , " A " hearing by the word if God .

The correct application of Rom. 8:9 concerning the topic of our state of being at the beginning of the Salvation process is ,

We are called , we repent , we take our first true step of Faith toward God ( pisteuo or faithing ) which is , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ," when we make that first act of Faith , faithing , pisteuo in the Greek , that act goes before Christ who is legitamently sitting on the judgement seat . What is being " heard " and a decision is always being made ? The submission of our surrendered life , and whether it is genuine or not . That is what's being heard , a hearing by the word of God , " Christ " !

If , He deems the first act of pisteuo to be genuine , we move forward in the Salvation journey or process into the testing ground or what Christ calls the parable of the sower . Where 3 out of the four soils Christ had deemed genuine will fail .

At this what I'm calling the third part of the Salvation process , we still " do not " have the Spirit of Christ sealed into us yet . So Christ , His word , and His promises in His word are still not ours to claim yet either .
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#2
The above analogy is ridiculous.......

One who exercises faith into the finished work of Christ is BORN AGAIN from above by the HOLY SPIRIT and of incorruptible SEED and SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT of promise at the moment of belief.......
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,600
2,628
113
#3
The above analogy is ridiculous.......

One who exercises faith into the finished work of Christ is BORN AGAIN from above by the HOLY SPIRIT and of incorruptible SEED and SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT of promise at the moment of belief.......
This is how i understand it too. Ephesians 1:13 as i've been quoting!
 
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Pisteuo

Guest
#4
This is how i understand it too. Ephesians 1:13 as i've been quoting!
Why didn't you bring this up when we were at that stage if this discussion ? I gave you the chance and you disappeared .

We're beyond that know, you submitted an understanding that would claim things of God that weren't yours yet . It's common sense , because we don't have the Spirit of Christ at that beginning stage , His Word and the promises in His Word are not ours to claim .....

This thread is addressing Rom. 8:9 .
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#5
One does not have to READ the Word of God exclusively, they can also HEAR the Word of God with the same results.

People either do not understand, or simply don't care, that there have been Bible-preaching (many of them Anabaptist) churches ever since Pentecost - God has always had a witness of His mercy.

It is not like the world had to wait until 300 A. D. for the Catholic church to show up on the scene.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#6
Why didn't you bring this up when we were at that stage if this discussion ? I gave you the chance and you disappeared .

We're beyond that know, you submitted an understanding that would claim things of God that weren't yours yet . It's common sense , because we don't have the Spirit of Christ at that beginning stage , His Word and the promises in His Word are not ours to claim .....

This thread is addressing Rom. 8:9 .
If a man is a born-again believer HE DOES HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT from the beginning, from the second he receives the Lord Jesus Christ. You have been corrected on this 'error' many times and yet you persist in pushing your false teaching.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#7
I don't understand why people can't quote a verse instead of just leaving an address . . .

"That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory" (Ephesians 1:12-14).

SEALED is past tense . . . not future.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#8
Why
This thread is addressing Rom. 8:9 .
Back to misusing Romans 8:9 again? You're not getting very far with your terrible theology, are you? I've tried to help you but you cannot see your errors.

After you accept and agree with me with the above, then we can move onto the next step.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#9
The above analogy is ridiculous.......

One who exercises faith into the finished work of Christ is BORN AGAIN from above by the HOLY SPIRIT and of incorruptible SEED and SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT of promise at the moment of belief.......
Shhhh. You have to agree with him, then he'll reveal more error to you. LOL!!!!!!!!!
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#10
Back to misusing Romans 8:9 again? You're not getting very far with your terrible theology, are you? I've tried to help you but you cannot see your errors.

After you accept and agree with me with the above, then we can move onto the next step.
Yea hath God said?
 
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Pisteuo

Guest
#11
Back to misusing Romans 8:9 again? You're not getting very far with your terrible theology, are you? I've tried to help you but you cannot see your errors.

After you accept and agree with me with the above, then we can move onto the next step.
One does not have to READ the Word of God exclusively, they can also HEAR the Word of God with the same results.

People either do not understand, or simply don't care, that there have been Bible-preaching (many of them Anabaptist) churches ever since Pentecost - God has always had a witness of His mercy.

It is not like the world had to wait until 300 A. D. for the Catholic church to show up on the scene.

You should read the Op again before posting .
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#12
Why didn't you bring this up when we were at that stage if this discussion ? I gave you the chance and you disappeared .

We're beyond that know, you submitted an understanding that would claim things of God that weren't yours yet . It's common sense , because we don't have the Spirit of Christ at that beginning stage , His Word and the promises in His Word are not ours to claim .....

This thread is addressing Rom. 8:9 .
My issue was with this error
 
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Pisteuo

Guest
#14
Why didn't you bring this up when we were at that stage if this discussion ? I gave you the chance and you disappeared .

We're beyond that know, you submitted an understanding that would claim things of God that weren't yours yet . It's common sense , because we don't have the Spirit of Christ at that beginning stage , His Word and the promises in His Word are not ours to claim .....

This thread is addressing Rom. 10:17
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#16
So , this is where Rom. 10:17 comes in . One might say " Faith comes by hearing , hearing by the Word of God ." And this proves that the hearing of Gods word is " the " act of pisteuo or faithing .
I had not looked at this verse in that way but agree. It is those who already believe who hear the word of God speaking directly to them and who then go on to faithing.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#17
I had not looked at this verse in that way but agree. It is those who already believe who hear the word of God speaking directly to them and who then go on to faithing.
No, it's not what you say or what he says. You're both in error.

Children tossed too and fro with every wind of doctrine...

Unbelievable accept the Word warned us of this.

Can anyone say "hoodwinked?"
 
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Pisteuo

Guest
#18
If you have been following the other two threads , ( Rom. 8:9 and our walk with Christ , repentance and the Salvation journey ) I have shown that because at the beginning of the Salvation journey , we don't have the Spirit of Christ yet ,. Christ , His Word , and the promises in His word are not ours to claim yet . Therefore , " believing " then recieving His Spirit at this beginning stage would be claiming something that is not ours yet .

This misunderstanding of how Faith ( pistis ) is applied ( pisteuo ) is from the English language not having a verb form of Faith , which should have been the words (faithe , faither , and faithing ). When they had to choose another word ( believe , believer , and believing ) it seemingly started a process of perverting or understanding it backwards . I think I made a good argument in the first two threads , here is another understanding I would like to share for discussion .

And here is my disclaimer , I don't mean to upset people or cause distention here . I've thought about and concidered these understandings daily for over 30 years . I would feel right within myself if didn't share this for your consideration .

Ok , here we are at the start of our Salvation journey . We are being drawn or called out by the Father to Christ . We repent by making a mental turn from our way to His way . We then take our first step of Faith ( pisteuo , faithing ) .

In today's church world , that step is " believing " in What God has done and promises ( His Word ) , then recieving His Spirit . As I stated , this isn't possible due to at the beginning state , none of those things are ours yet . At this stage , " believing in God Word " is not a true act of pisteuo or faithing .

So , this is where Rom. 10:17 comes in . One might say " Faith comes by hearing , hearing by the Word of God ." And this proves that the hearing of Gods word is " Not " the act of pisteuo or faithing .

Over the years , something about Rom. 10:17 just didn't sit right with me . First , it was the fact Gods word wasn't available for public consumption until the 1500's. My funny brain asked , how did people all over the world get access to God's word before that , before it was put together ? I realize , a few had access to the spoken word , does that mean the Father could only call those in that specific vicinity ? If the Father called someone in the year 32 ad on the other side of the world , they would have access to " believe " His Word hence could not respond in Faith.

Second , I decided to dig into Rom.10:17 deeper . When I did it took me to my Interlineal Bible , and then to my Strongs expanded .

This is what I found .
The Greek word the Writers used to communicate the word "hearing" is 189 akoe . This is the exact definition from the Strongs specific to Rom. 10:17 word for word .

( 7b ) " the recieving of a message " Rom. 10:17 , something more than a mere sense of " hearing "; an interaction with the Word and a decision is always made. [ Compare to a courtroom hearing ].

Now submitting the fact I've always known we don't accept Christ , He accepts us , I was looking at this with some big questions .

1) since this is a courtroom type of hearing , is it ever ok to put Christ or His word on trial ? Where we sit on the judgement seat and Christ or His Word is on trial ?

2) were taught never to judge each other , but it's ok to judge Christ and His Word ?

3) shouldn't Christ be on the judgement seat , and we have something that needs to be on trial ?

My conclusion , is that when they translated the Greek into the English language , they may have left out just two letters in Rom. 10:17 that again , gave a backwards understanding .

Here is how I understand Rom. 8:9 should read , with a correct application of pisteuo or faithing .

Rom. ,8:9 should read , " Faith comes by " A " hearing , " A " hearing by the word if God .

The correct application of Rom. 8:9 concerning the topic of our state of being at the beginning of the Salvation process is ,

We are called , we repent , we take our first true step of Faith toward God ( pisteuo or faithing ) which is , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ," when we make that first act of Faith , faithing , pisteuo in the Greek , that act goes before Christ who is legitamently sitting on the judgement seat . What is being " heard " and a decision is always being made ? The submission of our surrendered life , and whether it is genuine or not . That is what's being heard , a hearing by the word of God , " Christ " !

If , He deems the first act of pisteuo to be genuine , we move forward in the Salvation journey or process into the testing ground or what Christ calls the parable of the sower . Where 3 out of the four soils Christ had deemed genuine will fail .

At this what I'm calling the third part of the Salvation process , we still " do not " have the Spirit of Christ sealed into us yet . So Christ , His word , and His promises in His word are still not ours to claim yet either .
Here's the OP with an edit .
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
#19
If , He deems the first act of pisteuo to be genuine , we move forward in the Salvation journey or process into the testing ground or what Christ calls the parable of the sower . Where 3 out of the four soils Christ had deemed genuine will fail .
Yes I have also thought that the parable is about those ones too.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#20
Yikes thanks for the heads up . It should be Rom 10:17
No - your view on when a believer receives the Holy Spirit is the error. Are you even reading what I post to you? I don't care, if you want to be in error that's fine - but don't spread it around like manure.