'For' or 'because of'

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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#21
It should be "for" here is the problem many the hard line intranslation the "for" means to get or recieve when the word "for" can means because yo somthing that is already possesed we use "for" in that manor often when we say "take two aspirin for a headache" It does not mean that you take the aspirin to get the geadache you take them because you already have the head ache. Plus to truely understand this verse and the use of "for" we need to look at the full councel of God on Salvation. According to Jesus those men would not even have asked what they must do to be save if they had not been born again or be given life by the Spirit to come to Jesus granted by the Father.

John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 6:63, 65 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.......65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

The Lord opens hearts and those chosen for eternal life will believe.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 16:14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

Lydia's was opened just like the men in Acts 2.
You are correct, "for" can mean because of in some cases in the English language, but in Greek, the word εἰς never means because of. This is why it is never translated 'because of' in scripture.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#22
I just done a brief scan....the word is translated.....

in
unto
of
for
throughout
at
about
among
up toward
why
wherefore
etc.

And half a dozen other applications.....which seemed to be set by the context of the verse it was used in.....
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#23
I just done a brief scan....the word is translated.....

in
unto
of
for
throughout
at
about
among
up toward
why
wherefore
etc.

And half a dozen other applications.....which seemed to be set by the context of the verse it was used in.....
What you will not find in the definition options is "because of'.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#24
Some interesting thoughts found concerning EIS....

The key to getting the proper understanding of Acts 2:38 is found in the little Greek word "eis", translated "for." The Greek "eis" is translated various ways in the New Testament, depending on the context and the usage of the word itself, by demonstrating basis, ground, aim, or purpose.

For example, in 1 Corinthians 2:7, "eis doxan hemon" is translated "unto our glory." (KJT). In the RSV, it is translated "for our glory." It is translated thus in demonstrating aim or purpose, that being, our glory. In Matthew 12:41, "eis" is translated "at", demonstrating the basis or grounds, that being the preaching of Jonah was the grounds for the repentance of Nineveh. "...because they repented at (or "because of") the preaching of Jonas."

To quote Dr. John R. Rice, a worthy scholar, from his "Filled With the Spirit, The Book of Acts, A Verse-by-Verse Commentary: "The King James translation of Acts 2:38 ‘...be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...’ is unfortunate and inaccurate. The little Greek preposition eis, translated for, is an indefinite preposition of reference. It does not mean in order to. If Peter had commanded the people to be baptized in order to receive the remission of sins, he would have needed to use the Greek preposition hina, which means in order to.

A.T. Robertson, a well-known Greek Scholar, has pointed out that the Greek preposition "eis," translated "for" in the phrase "for the remission of sins," may also mean "because of." An example of this can be found in Luke 11:32, where the text says that the people of Nineveh "...repented at the preaching of Jonas..." The word "at" is a translation of the same Greek term "eis" found in Acts 2:38. The people of Jonah’s day, you see, did not repent for his preaching; but, because of it.

Source for this...

IS THERE A CONTRADICTION BETWEEN ACTS 2:38 AND JOHN 3:16 OR DOES BAPTISM SAVE?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#25
Some more thoughts.....

This little preposition eis, used about 1,800 times in the New Testament in Greek, is variously translated, for, at, toward, unto, into, etc. So it could be translated for, as here, only in the sense of ‘on the basis of,’ or ‘on the ground of,’ so Dr. A.T. Robertson explains.

Even in English the preposition for does not necessarily mean in order to. Often for means ‘on the basis of,’ or ‘on the ground of.’ Thus one is scolded for being late, or arrested for stealing, or praised forbeauty, or rewarded for bravery, or paid for work. In that sense only is one ‘baptized for the remission of sins,’ that is baptized for remission of sins already obtained when one repented.

Acts 2:38 does not give a new plan of salvation. Acts 10:43 says, ‘To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.’

Source for this

IS THERE A CONTRADICTION BETWEEN ACTS 2:38 AND JOHN 3:16 OR DOES BAPTISM SAVE?
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,031
537
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Texas
#26
Some interesting thoughts found concerning EIS....

The key to getting the proper understanding of Acts 2:38 is found in the little Greek word "eis", translated "for." The Greek "eis" is translated various ways in the New Testament, depending on the context and the usage of the word itself, by demonstrating basis, ground, aim, or purpose.

For example, in 1 Corinthians 2:7, "eis doxan hemon" is translated "unto our glory." (KJT). In the RSV, it is translated "for our glory." It is translated thus in demonstrating aim or purpose, that being, our glory. In Matthew 12:41, "eis" is translated "at", demonstrating the basis or grounds, that being the preaching of Jonah was the grounds for the repentance of Nineveh. "...because they repented at (or "because of") the preaching of Jonas."

To quote Dr. John R. Rice, a worthy scholar, from his "Filled With the Spirit, The Book of Acts, A Verse-by-Verse Commentary: "The King James translation of Acts 2:38 ‘...be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...’ is unfortunate and inaccurate. The little Greek preposition eis, translated for, is an indefinite preposition of reference. It does not mean in order to. If Peter had commanded the people to be baptized in order to receive the remission of sins, he would have needed to use the Greek preposition hina, which means in order to.

A.T. Robertson, a well-known Greek Scholar, has pointed out that the Greek preposition "eis," translated "for" in the phrase "for the remission of sins," may also mean "because of." An example of this can be found in Luke 11:32, where the text says that the people of Nineveh "...repented at the preaching of Jonas..." The word "at" is a translation of the same Greek term "eis" found in Acts 2:38. The people of Jonah’s day, you see, did not repent for his preaching; but, because of it.
I have a lot of respect for Robertson as a scholar but, he is wrong on this point. He even admits that his treatment of εἰς in Acts 2 is not based on any rules of grammar. He knows the rules and he knows what this text says, he just does not like what it says.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,031
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Texas
#27
Some more thoughts.....

This little preposition eis, used about 1,800 times in the New Testament in Greek, is variously translated, for, at, toward, unto, into, etc. So it could be translated for, as here, only in the sense of ‘on the basis of,’ or ‘on the ground of,’ so Dr. A.T. Robertson explains.

Even in English the preposition for does not necessarily mean in order to. Often for means ‘on the basis of,’ or ‘on the ground of.’ Thus one is scolded for being late, or arrested for stealing, or praised forbeauty, or rewarded for bravery, or paid for work. In that sense only is one ‘baptized for the remission of sins,’ that is baptized for remission of sins already obtained when one repented.

Acts 2:38 does not give a new plan of salvation. Acts 10:43 says, ‘To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.’

Source for this

IS THERE A CONTRADICTION BETWEEN ACTS 2:38 AND JOHN 3:16 OR DOES BAPTISM SAVE?
We are not discussing the soteriological implications right now. What we are discussing are the rules of grammar that govern the structure of the text and the definition of εἰς.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#28
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

The people Peter was addressing were not saved yet, for after Peter spoke they said, what shall we do to rectify this situation of rejecting Christ.

And Peter said to obey Acts 2:38, so it is baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins.

Act 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans, were all baptized in Jesus' name, and the name Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which Luke said baptism in Jesus' name.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#29
Seeing how the word of God does not contradict itself......the question that is being danced around here is....was it immersion that saved them from their sins....

ALL conclusions concerning Acts and this particular context must jive with the bible....

Why did JESUS say the Pharisees would die in their sins....

Because they were not immersed

or

Because they did not believe on or into JESUS

Is it WATER or BLOOD that covers sins?

When I see the WATER or BLOOD I will pass over you?

Without the shedding of BLOOD or covering of water there is no remission of sins?

No matter how many try to make ACTS and immersion the cause and effect of sins being remitted, it is the BLOOD, not the WATER that covers and remits one's sins.........having said that.....

We must interpret based upon KNOWN facts.....
And it is the blood that God circumcises us with during baptism. (Colossians 2:11,12, Romans 6:3,4).

And speaking of jiving with the bible, it says "With flames of fire (hell) He will take vengeance on those who know not God and who obey not the gospel of His Son." Since the bible says the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we must do like Him. Romans 6:3 explains how baptism is like His death, burial, and resurrection. Baptism is obeying the gospel.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#30
For example, in 1 Corinthians 2:7, "eis doxan hemon" is translated "unto our glory." (KJT). In the RSV, it is translated "for our glory." It is translated thus in demonstrating aim or purpose, that being, our glory. In Matthew 12:41, "eis" is translated "at", demonstrating the basis or grounds, that being the preaching of Jonah was the grounds for the repentance of Nineveh. "...because they repented at (or "because of") the preaching of Jonas."
Matthew 12:41 shows how the word oti is used when because is the intended meaning - ότι μετενόησαν εις το κήρυγμα Ιωνά (because they repented into the proclamation of Jonah). Into is awkward in English, but in Greek it conveys the idea of moving from a state of wickedness into a state of obedience.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#31
Here's a helpful illustration showing how Greek prepositions are used. Eis indicates motion into something (literal or figurative)

 
Mar 14, 2011
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#32
Just as in english, I think context rules. Just like the english word “for”can be used in many ways.

Examples

I phoned the doctor for (in order to recieve) some medecine

I phoned the doctor for (on behalf of) my daughter who is ill.

I phoned the doctor for (on account or because of) my sickness

I phoned the doctor for (with respect to) the bill i recieved.


 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#33
It would be interesting to see how εἰς is rendered in each case. What I have noticed is that it always seems to be rendered with either forward motion or point action.
Eis indicates motion into something (literal or figurative)

in light of this


An example of this can be found in Luke 11:32, where the text says that the people of Nineveh "...repented at the preaching of Jonas..." The word "at" is a translation of the same Greek term "eis" found in Acts 2:38.
would it be faithful to the text to understand Luke 11:32 as the people of Ninevah repenting "toward" or "into" the preaching of Jonah?
as in, they repented, which is a turning away, and turned "
toward" the message Jonah brought?
then we may have similarly in Acts 2:38 that Peter's message is to be immersed ((baptizo)) by/upon the name of Jesus Christ '
into' the remission of sins?
as in, repent ((turning away)) from unbelief and be immersed in/at/upon the name of Christ to ((turning toward)) remission of sin?
then i would see here a sort of motion away from sin, and a sort of motion toward forgiveness with Christ as the pivot point.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#34
in light of this



would it be faithful to the text to understand Luke 11:32 as the people of Ninevah repenting "toward" or "into" the preaching of Jonah?
as in, they repented, which is a turning away, and turned "
toward" the message Jonah brought?
then we may have similarly in Acts 2:38 that Peter's message is to be immersed ((baptizo)) by/upon the name of Jesus Christ '
into' the remission of sins?
as in, repent ((turning away)) from unbelief and be immersed in/at/upon the name of Christ to ((turning toward)) remission of sin?
then i would see here a sort of motion away from sin, and a sort of motion toward forgiveness with Christ as the pivot point.
Not really, εἰς is sometimes used to express point action.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#35
in light of this



would it be faithful to the text to understand Luke 11:32 as the people of Ninevah repenting "toward" or "into" the preaching of Jonah?
as in, they repented, which is a turning away, and turned "
toward" the message Jonah brought?
then we may have similarly in Acts 2:38 that Peter's message is to be immersed ((baptizo)) by/upon the name of Jesus Christ '
into' the remission of sins?
as in, repent ((turning away)) from unbelief and be immersed in/at/upon the name of Christ to ((turning toward)) remission of sin?
then i would see here a sort of motion away from sin, and a sort of motion toward forgiveness with Christ as the pivot point.
Thats an interesting perspective,

I always say that as they repented because of or on account of the teaching of Jonah. in other words, Jonah came, Jonah gave the word of God, and because they believed that word, they repented.

I see the same in acts. Peter came, He gave the word of God and some believed the word, and because of that they repented and were given the gift of the holy spirit. Then peter told those who repented, to be baptised in the name of Jesus on account of the fact they had been granted remission of sin.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#36
Not really, εἰς is sometimes used to express point action.
i just thought, if metanoeó is in a sense expressing "away from" and eis carries a connotation of "toward" then perhaps a sound way for me to look at the phrasing in various places is as a sort of balance between two metaphorical directions, which might help clear up some of the soteriological aspects.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#37
i just thought, if metanoeó is in a sense expressing "away from" and eis carries a connotation of "toward" then perhaps a sound way for me to look at the phrasing in various places is as a sort of balance between two metaphorical directions, which might help clear up some of the soteriological aspects.
In Luke 11:32, the best rendering of εἰς would be, "They repented 'at' the preaching of Jonah."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#38
In Luke 11:32, the best rendering of εἰς would be, "They repented 'at' the preaching of Jonah."
as though, the 'pivot' point in the verse is indicated with εἰς ?
thanks, i think i see now what you meant by 'point action'
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#39
I guess it goes to the flaw of the english language, Most people would not say, things like "He was converted at the preaching of pastor so and so" or "they repented at the preaching of jonah"

for most of us old timers who are used to biblical langage I do not think it really matters but to new people who have never heard biblical language, I think we have to recognize the fact they ay be cofused and need to know what these things mean, Just reading a bible they could be confused by the old language.

In our church, we are tryign to get away from usin gchurhc words, and use modern day words which mean the same thing when talking in certain groups for this reason. as we notice so many get so confused then end up not comming back .
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#40
I have a lot of respect for Robertson as a scholar but, he is wrong on this point. He even admits that his treatment of εἰς in Acts 2 is not based on any rules of grammar. He knows the rules and he knows what this text says, he just does not like what it says.
Could the same be said of those who teach baptismal regeneration seeing how Acts 2:38 is a go to verse for them?