God, Job and Us

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newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
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#1
2 Timothy 3:16-17 says, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” Proverbs 3:5 says “Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.” Romans 8:28 says, “And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.” Malachi 3:6 says, “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.”

So, we also come across John 3: 16 which says, “FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” And we know that Jesus is a Godsend.

So, if God loves the world so much, and we can presume via Malachi 3:6 that God never changes, we can conclude that God loved the world as much in the time of Job that He had when Jesus made his appearance. So, why did God take Job, whom He supposedly loved like He loved all others who worshipped him, and subject him to the things He did?

Can we say that God was testing Job? It appears from reading the Book of Job that God didn’t intend to test Job, at least not at first anyway. But as we were created to think, we wonder why, if God so loved the world, He handed Job over to Satan when Job was as upright and righteous as anyone, if not more so? Doesn’t God only hand over to Satan those who have gone against Him? And why did God, almighty as he is, have to prove to Satan his enemy and lowlife, that one of His children who love Him are doing so out of their own free will and not because they fear Him? If the Scriptures are for learning and all that, what is it that would should take away from the Book of Job?

The Book of Job is an illustration of earthly existentialism, but in it, Job is used to affirm that God is the creator who created all things, and God does not look to destroy for the sake of destroying things. Yet God lets Satan take away Job’s family, his health and his wealth, ironically to eventually inform Job that God, contrary to what Job may think of Him in his misery, is still the creator He always was. It is only when Job realizes that God is a creator and always will be, that God restores to Job at least some of what he lost. God gives Job twice the wealth Job had before, and He gives him a new family. But his old family was taken from him. Job could have rightfully asked God why He had forsaken him.

Does Job, anywhere in his Book, ask God why He had forsaken him? It appears that, in line with Proverbs 3:5 he has accepted what God allowed to happen to him and his only question seems to involve what he had done to deserve what he was going through.

Now, we can say that Job never lost his first family, for if they were righteous as well then Job would meet up with them in God’s House. And the same scenario has repeated itself time and time again since Job, that we lose family members, but we are assured that we will meet up with them some day in God’s House. And when we have been judged to be righteous, then like Jesus our souls are resurrected and brought up to the House of the Lord where we will dwell forever. And undoubtedly, Job, whom God in Job’s Book has determined to be righteous, is up there now, dwelling in the House of the Lord.

We are all potential Job’s, not in the sense that God would aim to prove our righteousness to Satan, but that bad things happen to us on earth from time to time. For no apparent reason we may lose our jobs, our health, some family members that we love, even though we’ve strived for righteousness. We may ask ourselves, ‘Where is the “good” that Romans 8:28 speaks of, in that?’ Ah, but we also have Proverbs 3:5, telling us to trust in whatever God does. And Jeremiah 29:11 tells us that God has plans for us all, for a future and a hope.

In a sense, God has shown through the Book of Job what a righteous person truly is. Job fulfilled the commandment God gave to Adam and Ever to be fruitful, and he fulfilled the Law of loving God with all his heart, soul in mind and acting out of that love instead of out of fear, and Job loved others as he loved himself. And Job continued to love God despite what Satan did to him. Such is a truly righteous person, and in fulfillment of 2 Timothy 3:16-17, such is the righteousness we all should strive for. And Jesus has shown us the way, the truth and the life toward that. And James 1:12 says, “Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.”
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#2
There is no record in the bible that Job's children who Satan killed where saved. The bible said Job was righteous, not his children. The bible says Job presented sacrifices for them. It did not say they did it on their own. Any person who is twenty and above is accountable for their own sins according to the bible. However, the Lord will have mercy on whom He please.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#3
If a love one here on earth does not make it to heaven, the bible says there is no memory of the wicked.
 

newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
42
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#4
There is no record in the bible that Job's children who Satan killed where saved. The bible said Job was righteous, not his children. The bible says Job presented sacrifices for them. It did not say they did it on their own. Any person who is twenty and above is accountable for their own sins according to the bible. However, the Lord will have mercy on whom He please.
***The Bible does not say that Job's children were NOT righteous. In any event, a righteous person would give others the benefit of the doubt until they have reason to not give them such benefit. Jesus said to love others as you would love yourself, he didn't say to avoid others until you have reason to love them. He also said to judge not, that you be judged.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#5
***The Bible does not say that Job's children were NOT righteous. In any event, a righteous person would give others the benefit of the doubt until they have reason to not give them such benefit. Jesus said to love others as you would love yourself, he didn't say to avoid others until you have reason to love them. He also said to judge not, that you be judged.
Jesus said, "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them that you have given me; for they are yours." John 17:9

Don't confuse what love is. Jesus is, and was, and always will be the ultimate example of love. God is love. And yet that didn't stop the Lord from calling the Sadducees and the Pharisees what they were. He called them snakes, vipers, and two fold child of the Devil in the book of Matthew.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
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#6
Jesus said, "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them that you have given me; for they are yours." John 17:9

Don't confuse what love is. Jesus is, and was, and always will be the ultimate example of love. God is love. And yet that didn't stop the Lord from calling the Sadducees and the Pharisees what they were. He called them snakes, vipers, and two fold child of the Devil in the book of Matthew.
While that’s true, Newton’s point is valid. The Bible does not say that Job’s children were unrighteous, or not saved.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#7
While that’s true, Newton’s point is valid. The Bible does not say that Job’s children were unrighteous, or not saved.
I will repeat; There is no record in the bible that Job's children who Satan killed where saved. The bible said Job was righteous, not his children. The bible says Job presented sacrifices for them. It did not say they did it on their own. Any person who is twenty and above is accountable for their own sins according to the bible. However, the Lord will have mercy on whom He please.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
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#8
I will repeat; There is no record in the bible that Job's children who Satan killed where saved. The bible said Job was righteous, not his children. The bible says Job presented sacrifices for them. It did not say they did it on their own. Any person who is twenty and above is accountable for their own sins according to the bible. However, the Lord will have mercy on whom He please.
There is also no record in the Bible that says Job's children were not saved, and no record that says Job's children did not offer sacrifices.
 

newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
42
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#9
>I will repeat; There is no record in the bible that Job's children who Satan killed where saved.

***Well, there is no record in the Bible that Job's children were NOT saved.
If you had a loved one who passed away, wouldn't you hope to see them again in Heaven?

BTW, can you name anyone in the Bible in which it is written they were saved? Just curious.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#12
>I will repeat; There is no record in the bible that Job's children who Satan killed where saved.

***Well, there is no record in the Bible that Job's children were NOT saved.
If you had a loved one who passed away, wouldn't you hope to see them again in Heaven?

BTW, can you name anyone in the Bible in which it is written they were saved? Just curious.
Question 1.
The question you are really asking is, "Can I be happy in Heaven with love ones in hell?"


16 ...Because the former troubles are forgotten, And because they are hidden from My eyes.

17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or [f]come to mind. Isa. 65

Question 2.
…19 See, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.” Luke 10
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#13
New Heavens and a New Earth

Isa. 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Do you realize this is not talking about those that are saved now? These are physical humans during the millennial reign here on earth. Move down a few verses and you can see these are dying people.

Isa. 65:20 "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

I believe we will remember everything: 1 Cor. 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face (with Christ): now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

I believe God will share everything throughout history with us.

blue-yes-text-smiley-emoticon.gif
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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#14
Hey! Newton... PTL!

Sorry, but I have to take exception to some of your post! For example:
In your third paragraph, you said; "if God loves the world so much" and, "Job, whom He supposedly loved." Yikes at the if and the supposedly!

In your forth paragraph you say, "if God so loved the world," Yikes again! Also, in your fourth paragraph, you ask, "Doesn’t God only hand over to Satan those who have gone against Him?" No! The Lord is sovereign and will have mercy on whom he has mercy and hardens whom he will. For an example, Paul by the Spirit handed over the brother in 1 Cor 5 who was having his father's wife, for the destruction of the flesh, to Satan, that he might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. You also said in this paragraph, "And why did God, almighty as he is, have to prove to Satan his enemy and lowlife, that one of His children who love Him are doing so out of their own free will and not because they fear Him?" The Lord didn't have to hand over anyone, he is always sovereign! Then you asked, "If the Scriptures are for learning and all that;" which the Lord tells us they are! Rom 15:4 "For those things that were written aforetime were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."

In your fifth paragraph, you say, "Job could have rightfully asked God why He had forsaken him." Job was never forsaken, but rather, he was used to prove that righteousness is still alive in God's people.
So dear brother, beloved of the Lord; I understand that you're making a point here, but if you had said, since God loves the world and Job, whom he loved, it wouldn't grate so. I know, its my problem, not yours. : ( @Me!
Finally, here is where Job opened the door imo, in, Job 3:25,26, "For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came." So, I suspect that their behavior was such that Job feared the consequences of their actions.

PS... Regarding scripture telling us of one who has been saved: 2 Tim 4:7,8 "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

Maranatha!
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#16
Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
Job 42:12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
Job 42:13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.
Job 42:14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
Job 42:15 And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
Job 42:16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.
Job 42:17 So Job died, being old and full of days.

We see that God gave Job twice as much as he had before, and his position better than previously, although the loss of his children was sad, and cannot be replaced.

Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

But I believe that his children were saved which is why God allowed Satan to afflict Job by the loss of his children, so his children were alright.

And if they were not alright with God we know that He judged on earth in the Old Testament, such as when He went against Israel for their rebelliousness.

But I believe Job's children were alright with God.

My friend avoided the book of Job for many years, for he thought it was Job as in work,lol.
 

GodisONE

Active member
Jul 11, 2018
212
44
28
#17
according to this scripture, God was not intending to test Job [of course being God, He knew it would happen]:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered* my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse* thee to thy face.

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.



***this passage of scripture seems that God has a betting personality***
basically, God is playing poker with Satan.

the funniest part, is that Satan should know if God agrees to something, that God already knows the outcome.
this proves Satan never learned from his fall!!
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,487
595
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#18
according to this scripture, God was not intending to test Job [of course being God, He knew it would happen]:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered* my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse* thee to thy face.

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.



***this passage of scripture seems that God has a betting personality***
basically, God is playing poker with Satan.

the funniest part, is that Satan should know if God agrees to something, that God already knows the outcome.
this proves Satan never learned from his fall!!
Pride is blinding.
 
Dec 9, 2017
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#20
Job was righteous in his own eyes and justified himself before God. Chapter 32