God sending People He made and loves to the lake of fire.

[BenFTW]

The prayer is for our benefit and not God's. I believe that it is the work of the Holy Spirit that convicts a person to say a prayer to God and this not really something of our doing at all but we are rather a willing participant.

That couldn't be further from the truth, my friend. Circumstances change through prayer, or they can remain the same through a lack of request. This is why you ask, and then receive. You have not because you ask not. People become complacent and plateau, not seeking deliverance from the Lord. They believe everything is from God, with His seal of approval. Yet His word says He gives us the desires of our heart, that when we pray we ought to believe that we have already received (that it has come to pass), with full on expectancy.

 

[preacher4truth]

OK, where else did Christianity come from? Are you telling me that some of the attendants to said councils like Athanasius of alexandria who pushed the 27 NT books to be cannon is not an influence in the most Christian of Christian assemblies of today?

You do not know history, that is why you are a Christian.


Please, enlighten me.

That's one of the most asinine things I've heard on CC, which says a lot.

I'll attempt, most likely in vain, to enlighten you (and perhaps help some others along the way whom you are attempting to confuse while mitigating their conversion).

The reason any person is a Christian is due to the fact God sought them out through the proclamation of the Gospel, and they, being elect, believed and were consequently converted.

Your argument is circular nonsense, what you are saying in reality is "You're only a Christian because the Gospel was preached to you, and you believed!"

Uh, ya think?

 

[Acadia]

That's funny because that is exactly what I did. If God was a god that cast his own children into eternal punishment, he would be the devil.
I do get to do that because the Bible says God loves and saves all people.
You go on ahead and worship Satan.
God is a loving God.
Those with love in them know this.
Your theology is full of contradictions and holes.
You should hear yourself. But you cant see the simple truth.
Loving Father/eternal punishment.
Id hate to be your kid.

Please stop with the flaming and false accusations. No one here has said God is going to cast His children into eternal punishment.

It’s hardly helpful when you accuse those who disagree with your universalistic view point of “worshipping Satan.”

You complain about this thread “hijacked” and that’s fine, but how about engaging in some honest conversation, rather than simply resorting to flaming and dodging honest questions?

 

[GodisONE]

There you go..adding words to scripture amd judging a human being. There are penalties for such behavior but fortunately for the sake of people that do what you just did, it doesn't include everlasting punishment.

It says death and hell were cast. Nowhere does it say a human being, a person, a man or a child of God.
It does say they are judged but does not give the verdict here. It does that in Matthew. which has already been discussed as this has already been discussed. But since you obviously havn't read the entire thread and would wager you haven't read the first post, I will let you out the easy lazy way.

It says whoever was not found in the book of life is cast. You added to scripture saying men were not found in the book.
If you want to imagine words that are not there to make you feel better, go ahead. If you then want to say the words you imagined are proof, I would hate for you to be my judge. If you like the idea of your god casting his children that he made into eternal punishment, that is your delima and a very sad existence that is living with such a horrible evil god as your master. The God of the Bible loves all His children and promises to save them all, every one. I have posted many of the numerous verses but if you choose to worship Satan...you wont be able to see the simply stated by the Father through the Son who He sent to save the whole world. The wonderful prophets too.

King David had a heart like no other. And he liked to sing. Are you familiar with this heavily blessed man and his prophesies.

Psalm 66
4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah.
Psalm 86
9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
Psalm 145
21 My mouth shall speak the praise of the Lord: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.

the scriptures I used are rather specific:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

verse 15 states they end up cast into the Lake of Fire. and who else would be in the Book of Life besides human beings?

it states who is not found written:

this means not every human being will be written in the Book of Life.
it's clear that those not written get cast into the Lake of Fire which is the SECOND DEATH [since they have experienced the FIRST DEATH already].

how do you think everyone is saved when this scripture is clear and to the point that only someone in DENIAL could claim it's wrong?

 

[Chuckyz2]

the scriptures I used are rather specific:

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

verse 15 states they end up cast into the Lake of Fire. and who else would be in the Book of Life besides human beings?

it states who is not found written:

this means not every human being will be written in the Book of Life.
it's clear that those not written get cast into the Lake of Fire which is the SECOND DEATH [since they have experienced the FIRST DEATH already].

how do you think everyone is saved when this scripture is clear and to the point that only someone in DENIAL could claim it's wrong?

There you go..adding words to scripture amd judging a human being. There are penalties for such behavior but fortunately for the sake of people that do what you just did, it doesn't include everlasting punishment.

It says death and hell were cast. Nowhere does it say a human being, a person, a man or a child of God.
It does say they are judged but does not give the verdict here. It does that in Matthew. which has already been discussed as this has already been discussed. But since you obviously havn't read the entire thread and would wager you haven't read the first post, I will let you out the easy lazy way.

It says whoever was not found in the book of life is cast. You added to scripture saying men were not found in the book.
If you want to imagine words that are not there to make you feel better, go ahead. If you then want to say the words you imagined are proof, I would hate for you to be my judge. If you like the idea of your god casting his children that he made into eternal punishment, that is your delima and a very sad existence that is living with such a horrible evil god as your master. The God of the Bible loves all His children and promises to save them all, every one. I have posted many of the numerous verses but if you choose to worship Satan...you wont be able to see the simply stated by the Father through the Son who He sent to save the whole world. The wonderful prophets too.

King David had a heart like no other. And he liked to sing. Are you familiar with this heavily blessed man and his prophesies.

Psalm 66
4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah.
Psalm 86
9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
Psalm 145
21 My mouth shall speak the praise of the Lord: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.

 

[Chuckyz2]

Please stop with the flaming and false accusations. No one here has said God is going to cast His children into eternal punishment.

It’s hardly helpful when you accuse those who disagree with your universalistic view point of “worshipping Satan.”

You complain about this thread “hijacked” and that’s fine, but how about engaging in some honest conversation, rather than simply resorting to flaming and dodging honest questions?

I do not have a universalistic point of view. They believe satan is saved. As I have said several times. So I assume you are one that has the same hopes being as rude as you are. You can't have love in you when you bash the truth.
You have yet to engage with the topic I posted and are nothing more than a rude hijacker yourself.
I have asked over and over for dialog on the verses I posted. What THEY say.
Everyone just rudely ignores and goes of on their own posting scriptures they want. Never first engaging in topic.
The reasons are obvious as is your belief. Atheists are ten times more polite than most of the people that have chimed in here. ANd 20 times more fluent in scripture. What a crying shame. Seriously. I have yet to see 1 heart for God here.
If I had to guess I would say this place is a den of wolves posing as sheep. And I am pretty sure most loving Christians that frequent here see it soon enough and move along. Which is why I was surrounded by only wolves. Lol,
Blatant Satanist. That is what I see. I wipe the dust from my sandles. and am out of this evil den of demons.
Lol.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

I do not have a universalistic point of view. They believe satan is saved. As I have said several times. So I assume you are one that has the same hopes being as rude as you are. You can't have love in you when you bash the truth.
You have yet to engage with the topic I posted and are nothing more than a rude hijacker yourself.
I have asked over and over for dialog on the verses I posted. What THEY say.
Everyone just rudely ignores and goes of on their own posting scriptures they want. Never first engaging in topic.
The reasons are obvious as is your belief. Atheists are ten times more polite than most of the people that have chimed in here. ANd 20 times more fluent in scripture. What a crying shame. Seriously. I have yet to see 1 heart for God here.
If I had to guess I would say this place is a den of wolves posing as sheep. And I am pretty sure most loving Christians that frequent here see it soon enough and move along. Which is why I was surrounded by only wolves. Lol,
Blatant Satanist. That is what I see. I wipe the dust from my sandles. and am out of this evil den of demons.
Lol.

You'd have to prove Satan is saved as is written in the scriptures. You'll not find that. Satan is a spirit.

It could be me but I am prone to noticing patterns in word play and elsewhere. And for the life of me I could swear you sound eerily like DevotedtoBible in your sarcasm and obstinance. Maybe that similar behavior as DtB is due to the similarity in posting styles concerning basic truths in the new testament. And you and DtB pursuing those arguments concerning certain basic truths that insists what is written in scripture doesn't actually say what is written and understood as a key point in the faith.

Perhaps a brother or sister may chime in and tell me if they notice that same writing style.

I think you'll note in 14 pages people have with great effort and restraint engaged in the topic of this thread.
As to the comment concerning atheists being preferred that's your choice. There are many an atheist forum on the net. And the foremost topic under discussion in all of them is God, Christianity, Jesus, and the Bible.
Fascinating really. People who insist God isn't real talk about what isn't there. People that insist God is a myth and people who worship God are delusional. And then take time to read a book that is believe first and foremost to have been inspired by that which the atheist reader insists doesn't exist.

Yes, you may call them more polite than what you've encountered here. But you can't call them more intelligent.

Happy travels.

 

[GodisONE]

There you go..adding words to scripture amd judging a human being. There are penalties for such behavior but fortunately for the sake of people that do what you just did, it doesn't include everlasting punishment.

It says death and hell were cast. Nowhere does it say a human being, a person, a man or a child of God.
It does say they are judged but does not give the verdict here. It does that in Matthew. which has already been discussed as this has already been discussed. But since you obviously havn't read the entire thread and would wager you haven't read the first post, I will let you out the easy lazy way.

It says whoever was not found in the book of life is cast. You added to scripture saying men were not found in the book.
If you want to imagine words that are not there to make you feel better, go ahead. If you then want to say the words you imagined are proof, I would hate for you to be my judge. If you like the idea of your god casting his children that he made into eternal punishment, that is your delima and a very sad existence that is living with such a horrible evil god as your master. The God of the Bible loves all His children and promises to save them all, every one. I have posted many of the numerous verses but if you choose to worship Satan...you wont be able to see the simply stated by the Father through the Son who He sent to save the whole world. The wonderful prophets too.

King David had a heart like no other. And he liked to sing. Are you familiar with this heavily blessed man and his prophesies.

Psalm 66
4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah.
Psalm 86
9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
Psalm 145
21 My mouth shall speak the praise of the Lord: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.

how am I adding to scripture?
everyone knows the Book of life pertains names of humans, not animals, the devil, fallen angels...only humans!!
which means those not written are humans!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I do not have a universalistic point of view. They believe satan is saved.

You're thinking about Star Wars universalism. Universalism doesn't require belief that satan will be saved. Stop misrepresenting things.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

how am I adding to scripture?
everyone knows the Book of life pertains names of humans, not animals, the devil, fallen angels...only humans!!
which means those not written are humans!!

He's a troll that just wants to jerk your chain. A rock can interpret scripture better than he can.

 

[Acadia]

I do not have a universalistic point of view.

The view that everyone will be saved whether they believe the Gospel or not is indeed universalism.

They believe satan is saved.

Some may. I’ve personally never heard of that view. Basic universalism is the belief that all people will be saved, whether they have faith in the Gospel of salvation through Christ Jesus or not. And that is exactly what you have promoted in this thread.

As I have said several times. So I assume you are one that has the same hopes being as rude as you are.

Please show me where I have been “rude”. I have attempted several times to engage in respectful conversation by asking honest questions that are absolutely related to the topic of this thread. You have ignored them. Then you have gone on to write that everyone who disagrees with your unBiblical views hates God and worships Satan.

You can't have love in you when you bash the truth.

Exactly. So take a careful look at what you’re writing in this thread.

You have yet to engage with the topic I posted and are nothing more than a rude hijacker yourself.

Actually, I have engaged with the topic you posted. You didn’t like what I wrote, so you ignored it. That’s fine, it’s your choice. But you have absolutely no basis for your false accusations.

If you truly wanted honest conversation on this topic, you would take the time to respond to the questions I asked. I think the real reason you started this thread has become pretty clear. You only wish to hear from those who agree with you and to insult and flame those who do not.

I have asked over and over for dialog on the verses I posted. What THEY say.

And several here have indeed addressed those verses. You simply did not like their answers, so you accused them of worshipping Satan.

That being the case, why would anyone else desire to engage with you on this topic?

Everyone just rudely ignores and goes of on their own posting scriptures they want. Never first engaging in topic.

See above. You’re the last person who should be complaining about rudeness. It doesn’t get more “rude” then telling brothers and sisters in Christ that they worship Satan.

The reasons are obvious as is your belief. Atheists are ten times more polite than most of the people that have chimed in here. ANd 20 times more fluent in scripture. What a crying shame. Seriously. I have yet to see 1 heart for God here.

Then you’re not paying attention. Several here have lovingly tried to share Scripture and sound doctrine with you. In return you have insulted them.

If I had to guess I would say this place is a den of wolves posing as sheep. And I am pretty sure most loving Christians that frequent here see it soon enough and move along. Which is why I was surrounded by only wolves. Lol,
Blatant Satanist. That is what I see. I wipe the dust from my sandles. and am out of this evil den of demons.
Lol.

Case in point. You came here with an agenda and you absolutely despise anyone who disagrees with you, even though they ask honest questions and point out issues with your view in light of Scripture.

 

[Jimbone]

That's funny because that is exactly what I did. If God was a god that cast his own children into eternal punishment, he would be the devil.
I do get to do that because the Bible says God loves and saves all people.
You go on ahead and worship Satan.
God is a loving God.
Those with love in them know this.
Your theology is full of contradictions and holes.
You should hear yourself. But you cant see the simple truth.
Loving Father/eternal punishment.
Id hate to be your kid.

Wow really? That's what you say to me, I worship Satan? You haven't even asked me a single question, how on earth do you even know what I believe let alone know "Your theology is full of contradictions and holes", then with a final jab you say "Id hate to be your kid". However I agree you'd hate to be my kid, you know why? You wouldn't be able to create me in "your image" either. See the main difference here is you define God by your standards, and anything that gets out of your own personal comfort zone you attack. I want God to reveal Himself to me, through His Spirit, all of creation (life experience), and His undying word. I feel like I am on YouTube with the way you are speaking to others here.

I have to say you did not represent your side very well, and if this kind of insulting, condescending rhetoric is the fruit of you beliefs, I think I'll pass thank you very much, and I honestly think you should ask yourself why you're so upset by another perspective that you feel the need to attack and insult and not even speak with the person you're attacking. The thing is I do not believe exactly like I did when I was first born again, God leads and teaches us, we walk with Him, and as He opens our eyes to new and bigger truths our beliefs have to grow with our understandings. If you think you have it all figured out now, and are "good" to the point you can look down your nose at others and declare they worship Satan, you are in a very dangerous place friend. Regardless of any disagreements we have I still pray God bless you and your family, and the He draw all of you closer to Himself every day.

 

[notuptome]

OK, where else did Christianity come from? Are you telling me that some of the attendants to said councils like Athanasius of alexandria who pushed the 27 NT books to be cannon is not an influence in the most Christian of Christian assemblies of today?

You do not know history, that is why you are a Christian.


Please, enlighten me.

I am a Christian because I knew I was a sinner and that God punished sin with an eternity in the lake of fire. I received the mercy of God through Christs death burial and resurrection.

The Christian church is founded on Jesus Christ the head cornerstone rejected by very religious mankind. Jesus is building His church through born again souls even to this very day. The gates of hell will not prevail against the church that Christ is building.

You wrongly condemn Christianity based on a wholly false notion of its nature and Christ Himself. You follow the wisdom of men who are not wise.

What cause do you have to despise Christ? What did Christ do to offend you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Seedz]

I am a Christian because I knew I was a sinner and that God punished sin with an eternity in the lake of fire. I received the mercy of God through Christs death burial and resurrection.

The Christian church is founded on Jesus Christ the head cornerstone rejected by very religious mankind. Jesus is building His church through born again souls even to this very day. The gates of hell will not prevail against the church that Christ is building.

You wrongly condemn Christianity based on a wholly false notion of its nature and Christ Himself. You follow the wisdom of men who are not wise.

What cause do you have to despise Christ? What did Christ do to offend you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again, i don't hate or despise anyone, not even Christ. you're dying to hear me say it or you are even projecting.

I just don't think the bible is truth.

That's the only evidence for Christianity.

 

[notuptome]

Again, i don't hate or despise anyone, not even Christ. you're dying to hear me say it or you are even projecting.

I just don't think the bible is truth.

That's the only evidence for Christianity.

Christ is the evidence of Christianity.

You think that men are truth? The bible is truth. There are no errors in Gods word.

Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

If you do not love Christ you hate Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Seedz]

Christ is the evidence of Christianity.

You think that men are truth? The bible is truth. There are no errors in Gods word.

Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

If you do not love Christ you hate Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

How is Christ evidence though? How? The bible tells us of Christ. That's pretty much it, with a random source here and there, but nothing concrete and contemporary.

Look, if you think you know better than I as far as what I hate or not, go ahead. Knock yourself out.

You obviously forget that I am not a pissed off 16 year old that hates the world and never really bothered to learn about God and who he is through his word.

I have made my own decisions and I just do not see how Christianity could be true, at least in this modern context that we find ourselves.

 

[notuptome]

How is Christ evidence though? How? The bible tells us of Christ. That's pretty much it, with a random source here and there, but nothing concrete and contemporary.

Look, if you think you know better than I as far as what I hate or not, go ahead. Knock yourself out.

You obviously forget that I am not a pissed off 16 year old that hates the world and never really bothered to learn about God and who he is through his word.

I have made my own decisions and I just do not see how Christianity could be true, at least in this modern context that we find ourselves.

Even your revered secular sources admit that Christ did in fact walk upon the earth. Concrete and contemporary evidence you do well to accept. They will deny that Christ was and is God in the flesh but they do begrudgingly admit He was here in the flesh.

Look out your window all of creation testifies to the existence of God. The bible is the source for all meaningful knowledge.

Romans 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

You know it is true you just don't like what you know.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jimbone]

How is Christ evidence though? How? The bible tells us of Christ. That's pretty much it, with a random source here and there, but nothing concrete and contemporary.

Look, if you think you know better than I as far as what I hate or not, go ahead. Knock yourself out.

You obviously forget that I am not a pissed off 16 year old that hates the world and never really bothered to learn about God and who he is through his word.

I have made my own decisions and I just do not see how Christianity could be true, at least in this modern context that we find ourselves.

You don't realize how factually wrong you are saying this. There is more historical evidence for Jesus, a no social class 1st century Jewish carpenter, than there is for Tiberius Caesar (the Roman Emperor at the time). To say "the bible is the only evidence" is just plain wrong in it's own right aside from the fact the bible counts, not to mention the bible is many accounts not just 1, but even outside the bible there are still MANY more sources for the historical claims of Jesus than the head honcho emperor of the time. That evidence seems to support Christian views more than yours. You can minimize the evidence all you want, but when you hold all history to this same impossible standard, you wipe out all of history. I'm sorry man, but even from a scholarly level, from a totally secular point of view you are just wrong about this, while you may not agree with the Christian claims, that in no way negates the evidence that supports it, and that evidence is much more than "just the bible", as if the bible doesn't count.

Also the reason you find Jesus lacking is because you are trying to look for spiritual truth through sight, through the flesh. Jesus tells us come to die or don't come, turn from all you desire and follow Me. You can't get there on the road you want to take. Go to Him, He is the only one that can convince any of us, but that's what separates the goats from the sheep. It took me losing the use of my arm to start truly seeking, the way you even approach it is futile anyway.

 

[Seedz]

Even your revered secular sources admit that Christ did in fact walk upon the earth. Concrete and contemporary evidence you do well to accept. They will deny that Christ was and is God in the flesh but they do begrudgingly admit He was here in the flesh.

Look out your window all of creation testifies to the existence of God. The bible is the source for all meaningful knowledge.

Romans 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

You know it is true you just don't like what you know.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

No Not all scholars accept that view, and even if he did exist so what? His resurrection cannot be proven outside of the bible. Even Paul said that if Christ did not raise, then it was all pointless.

Of course you gotta live by faith.

It goes like this:

Hey, would you like to go to heaven when you die?

Whats heaven?

Oh well, you know, it is the place where the born again Christians will spend eternity.

How do you know that?

The bible tells me so.

OK, how does it work?

Ok, you have to believe everything the bible says, you have to accept Jesus' gift of grace and salvation by acknowledging he died for your sins since you can't possibly be good and moral on your own, and you cannot ever question anything. I know it does not make complete sense, but have faith, it is all true. Also, you must change who you are, completely.

OK, well how will I know I'm saved?

Well, you gotta have faith and you will know once you die.

Oh, ok, so I won't know for sure, until I die, but while I am alive I have to change everything about me and blindly believe an ancient book that isn't as inerrant as everyone believes?

Yeah, that's right!

 

[Seedz]

You don't realize how factually wrong you are saying this. There is more historical evidence for Jesus, a no social class 1st century Jewish carpenter, than there is for Tiberius Caesar (the Roman Emperor at the time). To say "the bible is the only evidence" is just plain wrong in it's own right aside from the fact the bible counts, not to mention the bible is many accounts not just 1, but even outside the bible there are still MANY more sources for the historical claims of Jesus than the head honcho emperor of the time. That evidence seems to support Christian views more than yours. You can minimize the evidence all you want, but when you hold all history to this same impossible standard, you wipe out all of history. I'm sorry man, but even from a scholarly level, from a totally secular point of view you are just wrong about this, while you may not agree with the Christian claims, that in no way negates the evidence that supports it, and that evidence is much more than "just the bible", as if the bible doesn't count.

OK, please show me these numerous sources. I was not aware that Jesus had accounts far more numerous than that of Tiberius. Cus you know, Tiberius had coins with his face on them.... I mean, that alone is far more tangible than the lopsided and biased accounts found in the biblical texts, of which the NT was composed much later and by more people that never met or talked to Jesus than those that did, not to mention the fact that in the early days no one could agree on what scripture was "true".