Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

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J

jahsoul

Guest
Well not sure why you would go there. when Paul used two OT passages to prove that it is National. When paul used the rest of romans 11 to show who they were (blinded in part, Hated because of the gospel at this time) But I will take a look.

zech 13 looks exactly like Israel (as a nation) has been since it was taken to babylon. That a remnant has always been saved, and the rest are blinded. So does that negate what the rest of the OT prophets say about God bringing his people back and restoring them, and paul saying they all will be saved, when God removed their blindness??
First rebuttal....

Israel wasn't taken into Babylon but destroyed over 150 years early. Jadah was taken captive and went to Babylon and Judah consisted of primary 3 tribes (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi), so that kind of negates the rest of your point here.



It says what Paul said.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[SUP][h][/SUP]
What say what Paul say? Zechariah? If so, it doesn't.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

it is quite simple if we just read it for what it says, and not try to twist it to say something else.

The mystery was Israel was blinded in part. But then all will be saved.




But he is not talking about us, He is talking about them, And he is talking about a gift that God gave them, Which he never gave us. And he said they will ALL be saved, at which point, according to lev 26. They will be restored to their land.
How did I twist anything. I read it for what it say and if you didn't cut off part of it, it would have finished like this

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
So yes, we were brought up and it lines with my last post. That they are extended the same mercies that we are.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
When did this happen? Nineveh was built by the descendants of Ham
Did they believe? Where they saved? Where they blessed as spiritual children of Abraham?
 
J

jahsoul

Guest
"When did this happen? Nineveh was built by the descendants of Ham"


Off of the subject .... but not so [Genesis 10:11] .... Asshur was a descendant of Shem, not Ham
Off topic again..lol..but many believe that it was a mistranslation, especially considering the way that Genesis 10 is laid out, with Shem coming at the end of the chapter. *back on topic*
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
First rebuttal....

Israel wasn't taken into Babylon but destroyed over 150 years early. Jadah was taken captive and went to Babylon and Judah consisted of primary 3 tribes (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi), so that kind of negates the rest of your point here.
Although you are correct in your assumprtion as to who was taken, You missed the whole point of my remark.

When Israel was destroyed by syria, Judah still had many people who followed God. Once Judah was taken, the falling away was completed, and not once since then has most people really followed God.

So your rebuttle was rebutted.



What say what Paul say? Zechariah? If so, it doesn't.
What did paul say? He said like zeck says, Israel was blinded in part. But do not think yourself wise, because one day all isreal will be saved, as it is written..

You guys keep forgetting that Paul quoted OT prophets to prove all isreal would be saved.


How did I twist anything. I read it for what it say and if you didn't cut off part of it, it would have finished like this
Your still back in the early part of the passage, Your the one who cut it off.. That was long before Paul said they were blinded in part. but some day soon they will all be saved.



So yes, we were brought up and it lines with my last post. That they are extended the same mercies that we are.
Yes they were.

But you ignore the rest of the passage,

Like to share why you ignore it?
 
Dec 26, 2012
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"Do Christian believers that are of PHYSICAL ISRAEL lose the land promise? YES OR NO?"

Your question is a loaded one and also reflects your lack of understanding of the difference between the "church" and national Israel

All believers in Jesus Christ regardless of whether "Jew" or Gentile will gain immortality and live forever ruling with the Lord over His entire universe including His future millennial kingdom on the earth centered in the land of Israel

It is the future saved believing remnant part of mortal Israel that will inherit the land of Israel in the Lord's coming millennial kingdom on the earth


"Clear as mud. The whole nation, as a nation (all Israel) shall be saved. But just not all the people that constitute that nation ? On a national level, they will all be saved .... on an individual/personal level, they all won't ? A gem indeed"


Your mud "gem" is bogus and tells me that you do not have a comprehensive knowledge of the prophetic scriptures .... or you are purposely ignoring other related scriptures [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Matthew 24:29-31]

Not "all" of national Israel will be saved to live in the Lord's coming millennial kingdom upon the earth .... only all of the believing of national Israel will be spared out of the coming time of Jabob's trouble, the 70th week decreed for Israel .... the Lord does not spare unbelievers regardless of whether they are of Israel or the nations of the Gentiles .... your premise here is bogus in the first place

Let me help you out of your fog [Daniel 9:24 - 27 [the "many" .... not all]; Zechariah 13:8-9]
Do you understand that the word "church" is NOT in the Greek NT? The apostles never made that distinction. The distinction that they made is that BELIEVING Gentiles are grafted IN WITH BELIEVING ISRAEL. All believers are PART OF BELIEVING ISRAEL. The disciples did NOT STOP BEING of Israel.
 
J

jahsoul

Guest
Although you are correct in your assumprtion as to who was taken, You missed the whole point of my remark.

When Israel was destroyed by syria, Judah still had many people who followed God. Once Judah was taken, the falling away was completed, and not once since then has most people really followed God.

So your rebuttle was rebutted.
If you recall, both Israel and Judah had those who followed God. But as the case with both, the evil was just TOO much


What did paul say? He said like zeck says, Israel was blinded in part. But do not think yourself wise, because one day all isreal will be saved, as it is written..

You guys keep forgetting that Paul quoted OT prophets to prove all isreal would be saved.


Your still back in the early part of the passage, Your the one who cut it off.. That was long before Paul said they were blinded in part. but some day soon they will all be saved.
Yes they were.

But you ignore the rest of the passage,

Like to share why you ignore it?
What I posted wasn't at the beginning of the chapter, and it did come after Paul said that they were blinded. Actually, what I posted were the 3 verses directly after the ones you posted
 
Feb 21, 2012
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What is meant, then, by all?

Before attempting to answer the question, it should be noted that the same difficulty attends the amillennial view, or any other view which attempts to find an actual event in this passage. While Israel, according to the amillennialist, means “all believers,” it is also apparent that all believers are not saved at the end of the age by the coming of Christ. For the proper interpretation of the passage, both principal millennial views must limit the fulfillment to those living at the time. The difficulty is not, then, a result of the premillennial viewpoint.

The most evident answer to the question of the meaning of all is found in the context. The all is in antithesis to the in part of Romans 11:25 and the remnant of verse 5. During the present age a remnant of Israel is saved through the gospel. The hardening or blindness is “in part.” When Christ returns, the situation will be changed. Instead of a remnant, or a small part, Israel as a whole will be saved. It will be a national deliverance. A. T. Robertson while attempting to defend postmillennialism in his interpretation admits: “All Israel (pas Israel). What does Paul mean? The immediate context (use of pas in contrast to apo merous, pleroma here in contrast with pleroma in verse 12) argues for the Jewish people ‘as a whole.’”[SUP]30[/SUP] He goes on to express his opinon that other Scripture (Rom. 9:6; Gal. 6:16) may justify the teaching that both Jew and Gentile or “spiritual Israel may be the idea.”[SUP]31
[/SUP]
The opinion of Charles Hodge is worthy of weight as he is not arguing for premillennialism: “Israel, here, from the context, must mean the Jewish people, and all Israel, the whole nation. The Jews, as a people, are now rejected; as a people, they are to be restored. As their rejection, although national, did not include the rejection of every individual; so their restoration, although in like manner national, need not be assumed to include the salvation of every individual Jew. Pas Israel is not therefore to be here understood to mean, all the true people of God, as Augustine, Calvin, and many others explain it; nor all the elect Jews, i.e., all that part of the nation which constitutes ‘the remnant according to the election of grace’; but the whole nation, as a nation.”[SUP]32[/SUP] The viewpoint that “all Israel” means “Israel as a whole” is not “an almost unprecedented extreme” of “literalism which is characteristic of Millenarianism,”[SUP]33[/SUP] as Allis would have us believe, nor is it a peculiarity of a little sect of Plymouth Brethren. It is the interpretation of those who believe that Israel means Israel, whether premillennial or post-millennial, and it is the only interpretation which makes sense out of the eleventh chapter of Romans. William Hendriksen, formerly Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary and an avowed amillennialist, interestingly disagrees with Allis and holds that all Israel refers to the total number of Elect Israel in all ages; i.e., holds to a literal interpretation of the passage. This is, to say the least, an improvement on Augustine, Calvin, and Allis, though it misses the point of the context.[SUP]34[/SUP]The deliverance predicted in Romans 11:26 is, clearly, a group deliverance rather than individual salvation. This is borne out in the explanation which follows in the chapter.

"Excerpt from 'The Future Restoration of Israel' - Theology Journals, John F. Walvoord"

I use this because sometimes it is hard for us to put in words exactly what we mean so that others can understand.
 
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[/COLOR]I do get the distinction. Ninevah (although gentile) was a city of the children of abraham (in you shall all the nations be blessed) Because they heeded the warning of Jonah and recieved God. But they had NO PART in the promise to Jacob. It has always been that way, it was never any other way (even though the jews thought so, which is why paul had to come down on them so hard)

You do not get th epart we are talking of two separate events. Salvation of abraham, and a gift to Abraham Isaac and Jacobs children.



I
have answered it so many times I am actually getting sick of it. You see it, but you do not comprehend it for some reason. I have just for at least the 4th or 5th time mentioned ninevah, and How God blessed them. and how salvation is given to all nations as children of ABRAHAM, But that is NOT what paul is discussing now is it?



Your joking right? I have answered this numerous times too. It is a NATIONAL PROMISE, not an individual promise. Did Daniel lose his promise because he was a believer? What was his answer? Or do you even remember it? (hint, read the beginning of daniel 9)

It is NOT an individual promise it is a NATIONAL PROMISE.



You are trying to use Ninevah as an example BUT IT CAN NOT be as an example in the way you are trying to use it. You forget that Ninevah WAS NOT GRAFTED INTO Israel. Yet God did give that provision BEFORE THE MOSAIC LAW WAS EVEN GIVEN. God even COMMANDS that circumcised Gentiles were to be treated AS NATURAL BORN ISRAELITES which ALSO INCLUDED THE LAND PROMISE.

Exodus 11

[SUP]43 [/SUP]The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “These are the regulations for the Passover meal:

“No foreigner may eat it. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Any slave you have bought may eat it after you have circumcised him, [SUP]45 [/SUP]but a temporary resident or a hired worker may not eat it.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]“It must be eaten inside the house; take none of the meat outside the house. Do not break any of the bones. [SUP]47 [/SUP]The whole community of Israel must celebrate it.
[SUP]48[/SUP]“A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. [SUP]49 [/SUP]The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”

[SUP]50 [/SUP]All the Israelites did just what the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron. [SUP]51 [/SUP]And on that very day the Lord brought the Israelites out of Egypt by their divisions.

Ezekiel 47

[SUP]13 [/SUP]This is what the Sovereign Lord says: “These are the boundaries of the land that you will divide among the twelve tribes of Israel as their inheritance, with two portions for Joseph. [SUP]14 [/SUP]You are to divide it equally among them. Because I swore with uplifted hand to give it to your ancestors, this land will become your inheritance.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“This is to be the boundary of the land:
“On the north side it will run from the Mediterranean Sea by the Hethlon road past Lebo Hamath to Zedad, [SUP]16 [/SUP]Berothah[SUP][c][/SUP] and Sibraim (which lies on the border between Damascus and Hamath), as far as Hazer Hattikon, which is on the border of Hauran. [SUP]17 [/SUP]The boundary will extend from the sea to Hazar Enan,[SUP][d][/SUP] along the northern border of Damascus, with the border of Hamath to the north. This will be the northern boundary.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“On the east side the boundary will run between Hauran and Damascus, along the Jordan between Gilead and the land of Israel, to the Dead Sea and as far as Tamar.[SUP][e][/SUP] This will be the eastern boundary.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“On the south side it will run from Tamar as far as the waters of Meribah Kadesh, then along the Wadi of Egypt to the Mediterranean Sea. This will be the southern boundary.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“On the west side, the Mediterranean Sea will be the boundary to a point opposite Lebo Hamath. This will be the western boundary.

[SUP]21[/SUP]“You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. [SUP]22 [/SUP]You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. [SUP]23 [/SUP]In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign Lord.

Did you catch that? God plainly told Ezekiel that it was an INHERITANCE for BOTH native born and FOREIGNERS residing among them.

Daniel did not lose the land promise. Again you do not understand the full meaning of the land promise. The land promise is a type and shadow.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are trying to use Ninevah as an example BUT IT CAN NOT be as an example in the way you are trying to use it. You forget that Ninevah WAS NOT GRAFTED INTO Israel.

Grafted into Israel? What good would that do? Israel has no power. Paul spoke of being grafted into Christ, Not Israel.

And Yes I can use ninevah, because they were grafted into Christ by their receiving Gods gift. Like the Jews in the NT, Where a few are grafted in by their faith, Yet more gentiles have been, Ninevah was a gentile people in the OT who were grafted in, yet there were more Israel.

Yet God did give that provision BEFORE THE MOSAIC LAW WAS EVEN GIVEN. God even COMMANDS that circumcised Gentiles were to be treated AS NATURAL BORN ISRAELITES which ALSO INCLUDED THE LAND PROMISE.


it took more than that, And ninevah would not want to go to cannan, why would they want to leave the land God gave them? Your not making any sense.

Exodus 11
[SUP]43 [/SUP]The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “These are the regulations for the Passover meal:

“No foreigner may eat it. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Any slave you have bought may eat it after you have circumcised him, [SUP]45 [/SUP]but a temporary resident or a hired worker may not eat it.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]“It must be eaten inside the house; take none of the meat outside the house. Do not break any of the bones. [SUP]47 [/SUP]The whole community of Israel must celebrate it.
[SUP]48[/SUP]“A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. [SUP]49 [/SUP]The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”

[SUP]50 [/SUP]All the Israelites did just what the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron. [SUP]51 [/SUP]And on that very day the Lord brought the Israelites out of Egypt by their divisions.

Ezekiel 47

[SUP]13 [/SUP]This is what the Sovereign Lord says: “These are the boundaries of the land that you will divide among the twelve tribes of Israel as their inheritance, with two portions for Joseph. [SUP]14 [/SUP]You are to divide it equally among them. Because I swore with uplifted hand to give it to your ancestors, this land will become your inheritance.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“This is to be the boundary of the land:
“On the north side it will run from the Mediterranean Sea by the Hethlon road past Lebo Hamath to Zedad, [SUP]16 [/SUP]Berothah[SUP][c][/SUP] and Sibraim (which lies on the border between Damascus and Hamath), as far as Hazer Hattikon, which is on the border of Hauran.[SUP]17 [/SUP]The boundary will extend from the sea to Hazar Enan,[SUP][d][/SUP] along the northern border of Damascus, with the border of Hamath to the north. This will be the northern boundary.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“On the east side the boundary will run between Hauran and Damascus, along the Jordan between Gilead and the land of Israel, to the Dead Sea and as far as Tamar.[SUP][e][/SUP] This will be the eastern boundary.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“On the south side it will run from Tamar as far as the waters of Meribah Kadesh, then along the Wadi of Egypt to the Mediterranean Sea. This will be the southern boundary.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“On the west side, the Mediterranean Sea will be the boundary to a point opposite Lebo Hamath. This will be the western boundary.

[SUP]21[/SUP]“You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. [SUP]22 [/SUP]You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. [SUP]23 [/SUP]In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance,” declares the Sovereign Lord.

Did you catch that? God plainly told Ezekiel that it was an INHERITANCE for BOTH native born and FOREIGNERS residing among them.


Yeah I did get that, Gentiles who were WITH THEM. But they had to do certain things, or they could not do anything. But what does that have to do with anything? Why are the gentiles not living in peace in the land of canaan right now if God replaced Israel and his promise to them with us. You still have not answered why..

Daniel did not lose the land promise. Again you do not understand the full meaning of the land promise. The land promise is a type and shadow.
lol. You can read daniel and say this? Daniel did not think it was a type and shadow. And he prayed deeply for God to remember his promise, his people, and HIS LAND.

I think you need to read it again!
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Yeah I did get that, Gentiles who were WITH THEM. But they had to do certain things, or they could not do anything. But what does that have to do with anything? Why are the gentiles not living in peace in the land of canaan right now if God replaced Israel and his promise to them with us. You still have not answered why..



lol. You can read daniel and say this? Daniel did not think it was a type and shadow. And he prayed deeply for God to remember his promise, his people, and HIS LAND.

I think you need to read it again!


Again you do not understand the Kingdom that Jesus came to restore.

Where did I ever say that Israel was replaced? I have never said that. What I have said is that the body of believers IS BELIEVING ISRAEL WITH THE GENTILES GRAFTED IN. The disciples and the first believers NEVER STOPPED BEING OF ISRAEL.
The New Covenant was given to ISRAEL.

Why would Daniel see it as a type and shadow? Daniel is pre-cross,not post cross. Even the disciples DID NOT understand the types and shadows UNTIL Jesus ascended into heaven and sent the Holy Spirit.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Do any of you understand that Jesus came to restore the FATHER'S kingdom and not the kingdom made or demanded by man? The Father's kingdom was ALWAYS ruled from heaven NOT FROM EARTH. That is the way that God designed it to be.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Do any of you understand that Jesus came to restore the FATHER'S kingdom and not the kingdom made or demanded by man? The Father's kingdom was ALWAYS ruled from heaven NOT FROM EARTH. That is the way that God designed it to be.
Do you understand that God PROMISED to rule from Earth. to restore peace and bring peace to the WHOLE earth with his Earthy reign.

Do you understand that God made a promise, which you can not deny, and called it an ETERNAL promise. And if God goes back on his promise, he is a liar and a theif.

Which God do you want? One who says he will do something and does it, and keeps his promises. or one who does not? which makes him no better than a sinful human.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Again you do not understand the Kingdom that Jesus came to restore.

Where did I ever say that Israel was replaced? I have never said that. What I have said is that the body of believers IS BELIEVING ISRAEL WITH THE GENTILES GRAFTED IN. The disciples and the first believers NEVER STOPPED BEING OF ISRAEL.
The New Covenant was given to ISRAEL.


Yes you do say that, because you say the promises made to ISRAEL ONLY, has been done away, and God replaced that promise with the gentiles. That is replacement theology.


Why would Daniel see it as a type and shadow? Daniel is pre-cross,not post cross. Even the disciples DID NOT understand the types and shadows UNTIL Jesus ascended into heaven and sent the Holy Spirit.
Yet the disciples did understand. As did Daniel, that God made promises, and he will keep them, if Israel repent.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” [SUP]7 [/SUP]And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

This is post cross. And Jesus did not tell them they were wrong, That the OT promises were types. He said clearly, It is not for them to KNOW THE TIME AND SEASON (when it will occur)

so sorry, they would disagree with you. I chose to trust them and what they thought, And Jesus answer to them, and not someone who says otherwise.
 
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My comment

Daniel saw nothing of the "church" .... but only about his people national Israel [Daniel 9]

What he does see is the time appointed [Daniel 11:35] at the end of this present age still pending .... and again it is about his people national Israel .... not the "church"

So it is with all of the other prophets .... and even the Lord in His related discourse

The concept of types and shadows is a mush pot theology .... all of the visions of the Bible are distinctive and stand on their own particular focus

Mush pot, selective allegory, and metaphorical methodologies are used by those who want to make the prophetic scriptures fit their own preconceptions

The arbitrary switching between the literal and the figurative is a game which can be used to support just about any ideology under the sun
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Yes you do say that, because you say the promises made to ISRAEL ONLY, has been done away, and God replaced that promise with the gentiles. That is replacement theology.




Yet the disciples did understand. As did Daniel, that God made promises, and he will keep them, if Israel repent.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” [SUP]7 [/SUP]And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

This is post cross. And Jesus did not tell them they were wrong, That the OT promises were types. He said clearly, It is not for them to KNOW THE TIME AND SEASON (when it will occur)

so sorry, they would disagree with you. I chose to trust them and what they thought, And Jesus answer to them, and not someone who says otherwise.
Again where did I say the gentiles replaced Israel? I never said that. Do you NOT READ or do you CONTINUE to read into things that you want to read into them? This is what I said

Originally Posted by SarahM777

Again you do not understand the Kingdom that Jesus came to restore.

Where did I ever say that Israel was replaced? I have never said that. What I have said is that the body of believers IS BELIEVING ISRAEL WITH THE GENTILES GRAFTED IN. The disciples and the first believers NEVER STOPPED BEING OF ISRAEL.
The New Covenant was given to ISRAEL.




Again the Bible plainly says we are grafted in with Israel and we are co-heirs with them. Do you not understand what a CO-HEIR IS? A co-heir DOES NOT REPLACE THE ORIGINAL HEIR. Do you understand what it means to be grafted into ONE TREE?


And once again they are speaking PRE PENTECOST BEFORE they are given the Holy Spirit. Not once after Pentecost can you FIND ONE VERSE where the disciple say that Jesus kingdom is AN EARTHLY KINGDOM.

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Again where did I say the gentiles replaced Israel? I never said that. Do you NOT READ or do you CONTINUE to read into things that you want to read into them? This is what I said

Originally Posted by SarahM777

Again you do not understand the Kingdom that Jesus came to restore.

Where did I ever say that Israel was replaced? I have never said that. What I have said is that the body of believers IS BELIEVING ISRAEL WITH THE GENTILES GRAFTED IN. The disciples and the first believers NEVER STOPPED BEING OF ISRAEL.
The New Covenant was given to ISRAEL.




Again the Bible plainly says we are grafted in with Israel and we are co-heirs with them. Do you not understand what a CO-HEIR IS? A co-heir DOES NOT REPLACE THE ORIGINAL HEIR. Do you understand what it means to be grafted into ONE TREE?


And once again they are speaking PRE PENTECOST BEFORE they are given the Holy Spirit. Not once after Pentecost can you FIND ONE VERSE where the disciple say that Jesus kingdom is AN EARTHLY KINGDOM.
lol. so Jesus would just go on, even though he corrected them so many times, believing something which was not true, because it was not pentecost yet?

I am sorry Sarah, I love ya sis, but that is the weakest argument I have ever heard to support your belief.


also, just so you know. You can say your do not believe in replacement theology all you want, as long as you say the promises to isreal were given to the church, that is exactly what you believe.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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lol. so Jesus would just go on, even though he corrected them so many times, believing something which was not true, because it was not pentecost yet?

I am sorry Sarah, I love ya sis, but that is the weakest argument I have ever heard to support your belief.


also, just so you know. You can say your do not believe in replacement theology all you want, as long as you say the promises to isreal were given to the church, that is exactly what you believe.

They did not UNDERSTAND the nature of the Kingdom.


So correct me if I am wrong,then you are saying that the disciples and all the believers that are of Israel DID STOP being of Israel and they LOST all the promises.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
They did not UNDERSTAND the nature of the Kingdom.
They did, we know it because Jesus did not tell them they were wrong. He did not say you do not understand, You do not get it, Your wrong in your thoughts, the kingdom is not that.

He said, it is not for you to know time or seasons (a figure of speach as to when the things will occur)



So correct me if I am wrong,then you are saying that the disciples and all the believers that are of Israel DID STOP being of Israel and they LOST all the promises.

well the disciples lived in their land, as did most of the believers, until 70 AD when God did what he promised he would do if THE NATION did not obey his voice, and heed his word. And daniel said would happen in Daniel 9 by the people of the prince who will come.

Again, it is a national thing, not a personal thing, Even daniel understood this. As did the disciples.


They understood the OT prophets who said Israel will reject their king, God will destroy their land and make it a wasteland, and scatter them to the 4 corners of the earth, and give what was theirs (Gods representatives on earth) the the gentiles.

So why try to push a kingdom which will not reappear until LONG after you are dead. why do you think no one mentioned it (well except paul in Romans 11 and John in revelation)
 
Dec 26, 2012
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They did, we know it because Jesus did not tell them they were wrong. He did not say you do not understand, You do not get it, Your wrong in your thoughts, the kingdom is not that.

He said, it is not for you to know time or seasons (a figure of speach as to when the things will occur)





well the disciples lived in their land, as did most of the believers, until 70 AD when God did what he promised he would do if THE NATION did not obey his voice, and heed his word. And daniel said would happen in Daniel 9 by the people of the prince who will come.

Again, it is a national thing, not a personal thing, Even daniel understood this. As did the disciples.


They understood the OT prophets who said Israel will reject their king, God will destroy their land and make it a wasteland, and scatter them to the 4 corners of the earth, and give what was theirs (Gods representatives on earth) the the gentiles.

So why try to push a kingdom which will not reappear until LONG after you are dead. why do you think no one mentioned it (well except paul in Romans 11 and John in revelation)
Oh wow, We miss this in Acts 1,it is always ASSUMED that the disciples either DID NOT understand what the kingdom was or that they were still asking about an earthly kingdom,but that IS READ INTO the text. This is what it actually says

Acts 1

1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach [SUP]2 [/SUP]until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. [SUP]3 [/SUP]After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For John baptized with
[SUP][a][/SUP] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[SUP][b][/SUP] the Holy Spirit.”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
[SUP]7 [/SUP]He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
[SUP]9 [/SUP]After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. [SUP]11 [/SUP]“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

It plainly says that JESUS TAUGHT them about the kingdom for forty days. That part ALMOST ALWAYS GETS LEFT OUT. There is NOT ONE WORD THAT SAYS the disciples were STILL LOOKING FOR AN EARTHLY KINGDOM. It's not there.

Never mind that also leaves out that either Jesus LIED to Pilate when He said that His kingdom was NOT of this earth or He Himself did NOT UNDERSTAND that He was to have an earthly kingdom.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Oh wow, We miss this in Acts 1,it is always ASSUMED that the disciples either DID NOT understand what the kingdom was or that they were still asking about an earthly kingdom,but that IS READ INTO the text. This is what it actually says

Acts 1

1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach [SUP]2 [/SUP]until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. [SUP]3 [/SUP]After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For John baptized with
[SUP][a][/SUP] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[SUP][b][/SUP] the Holy Spirit.”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
[SUP]7 [/SUP]He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
[SUP]9 [/SUP]After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. [SUP]11 [/SUP]“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

It plainly says that JESUS TAUGHT them about the kingdom for forty days. That part ALMOST ALWAYS GETS LEFT OUT. There is NOT ONE WORD THAT SAYS the disciples were STILL LOOKING FOR AN EARTHLY KINGDOM. It's not there.

Never mind that also leaves out that either Jesus LIED to Pilate when He said that His kingdom was NOT of this earth or He Himself did NOT UNDERSTAND that He was to have an earthly kingdom.
He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. . . . . Ok. . . Jesus spoke to them concerning the kingdom of God - They STILL asked him - “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” Now why would they ask that? Was Jesus just not clear to them whether this kingdom would be physical or spiritual? Did the disciples KNOW the OT? Of course they did . . . . they would have taken the OT literally and would have been looking for a physical kingdom to be restored.