Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[eternally-gratefull]

You are assuming Jesus DID NOT teach them that it would not be an earthly kingdom during the forty days that Jesus was teaching them about the Kingdom of God.

No, and again, I am not assuming anything.

They already knew about the earthly kingdom. They understood about the heavenly kingdom (the reason he came this time) he spent 40 days talking about that, and here at the end, they said, I understand now why you came this time, when are you coming back to do what else you were prophesied to do.

Jesus answer?

1. You still do not get it. Why do I even bother trying?
2. You fools, I just spent 40 days trying to show you what the true kingdom was, and you still do not get it?
3. It is not for you to know the time when this will happen, do not worry about it, God is in control. it will happen when it happens?

I do not know about you. but I chose number 3. proving that he will one day in the future (as the prophets foretold) return and set up his earthly kingdom. Otherwise he would have denied it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You see peaceful the problem is that you run head long into Jesus clear statements about His kingdom and especially this statement

Luke 9

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. [SUP]25 [/SUP]What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? [SUP]26 [/SUP]Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”



Mark 9

And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

You need to be able to understand who Jesus is talking to (the disciples) whom He plainly tells them that some of them WILL NOT DIE BEFORE THEY SEE that the Kingdom of God HAS COME. He is NOT speaking to someone 2000 thousand years in the future but to the DISCIPLES WHO WERE THERE WITH HIM.

you still are not separating the two kingdoms.

the kingdom of God and the messianic kingdom are two events. We do not have a problem with what Jesus said, we agree with him. some did not taste death until they saw it come with power (pentecost) so he was right.

But non of them experienced the messianic kingdom, however they asked about it in Acts 1. proving they even understood it by this time..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, although they witnessed unique events, the disciples still asked Christ that question which proves that they were still understanding the Kingdom in a somewhat limited way (within a Jewish category of mind who expected from the Messiah a totally different agenda and understood the kingdom as a sort of earthly divine form of government). They are not to be blamed for that and their question shouldn't surprise us so much. You can not change over night the beliefs that were very rooted in the jewish mind. Their question is a proof that they are credible human beings (subjected to misunderstanding) and not robots that can switch automatically from a category of thinking to a higher understanding.

you still have the major problem that Jesus did not correct them, He spent 3 years correcting them on things, and showing them the truth (even though until AFTER he rose from the dead, they did not get it) and here at the very end of his time on earth, he did not correct them, But told them flat out it was not for them to know when those things will happen.

Sorry but you have a major problem there you can not just sweep under the rug.

Especially since right after this, Peter goes out as the leader of the new church, and was responsible to for teachingn all things concerning the messiah and the death of Christ and the kingdom of God.

 

[SarahM777]

It is not saying that his kingdom will not be on the earth nothing to do with the earth. He is saying that his kingdom is not "of this world" because "this world" is fallen, sinful and full of unrighteousness. "this world" is passing away (1 Cor. 7:31). Jesus also said that his disciples "did not belong to the world" - meaning that they were not a part of the evil influences of the world. Just the opposite was said of the Pharisees who opposed him - John 8:23 - "you are of this world" having nothing to do with actually being on earth or being in a physical body but it speaks of involvement with evil and demonic influences. Christ kingdom is "not of this world", not of this present evil world; it will come at the renewal of all things - new heavens and new earth.

The kingdom of God was in their midst in the form of Jesus Christ - Jesus physically being in their presence. With all the negative things Jesus said about the Pharisees - I doubt if the kingdom of God was within them . . . .

I went to look at some commentaries on this and boy, are they scattered in their interpretations . . . Not many are sure but they do agree with the fact that it has to have something to do with the transfiguration - At the transfiguration when Moses and Elijah appeared - they spoke of his departure - (his death and resurrection). His resurrection is what brought the holy Spirit and gave the apostles "power from on high" or "power from above". If the commentaries are not sure about this - then I sure as heck don't know for sure. But these 3 scriptures do not negate how other prophecies have been literally fulfilled and it's funny how you want to read those scripture with a literal meaning; they could mean something entirely different than what you or I am thinking.

Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined . . . If Christ's is ruling right now - and - Satan and his third of the angels (demons) are ruling (2 Co. 2:4) - then I would say THAT IS A KINGDOM DIVIDED.

Peaceful Please go back and and read what you said very carefully on these things. You contradict yourself.

On one hand you do say that the Kingdom was here in the form Jesus and then you turn around and say the kingdom is not here,which is it?

It's strange how on one hand you will say that the kingdom verses MUST BE FULFILLED Literally yet on Mark 9:1,Mathew 12 and Luke 9 with the same idea it is NO LONGER a literal passage. Did the disciples that were standing there see the KINGDOM OF GOD COME in power? No one can say they saw Jesus set up His throne ON EARTH during the disciples lifetime.

Peaceful 2 Corinthians 2:4 says this

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.

Revelation 12

Does not say one word about Satan and the angels that were cast out ruling on earth.

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Clearly, in the frame of mind and understanding of His chosen people.
The redefining of Israel's vision of God's Kingdom (by Jesus Christ) was not allegorical (although Christ spoke about the kingdom in parables). If Christ re-locate the kingdom in its right (designed) place: our hearts, it does not mean that He speaks allegorically, "the kingdom is really at hand", but not in plain sight (like the jews expected), but like a seed growing secretly.

How can you say that?

He will rule with a rod of Iron (not yet happened)
He will defeat all gentile nations (not yet happened)
He will restore Jacob to their land, from the nations who have taken them because of their sin (not yet happened)
He will sit on king davids throne, in jerusalem, And all gentile nations will come worship him there, the ones who do not, he will punish by withholding rain from their land (so you can not say this is heaven, no need of rain in heaven, nor will their be any punishment in heaven, because every knee will bow)

I can go on and on and on with so many prophesies concerning the messianic kingdom. Which you would have to allegorize to make them already fulfilled, because you can not take them literally, and declare them fulfilled.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham'

I think a first anticipation that God's people are those who obey and love Him and not those who happen to be of Jewish blood is found in the sayings of Saint John the Baptizer.

Saint Paul would have agreed with John. I recommend you read Galatians, Philippians and Romans if you want to see who is now the New Israel.

We have.

Rom 11:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[SUP][h][/SUP]


[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

It is quite clear Paul spoke of a future event,

This is what he said.

1. Will occur when the times of the gentile is fulfilled
2. Will occur when the one who comes from Zion (Jerusalem) takes away the sin of Jacob (Israel) In other words, they repent.
3. Will occur to the poeple, that in pauls day, and even in our day, are enemies concerning the gospel.
4. Will occur not for THEIR sake, but for the sake of the FATHERS (God made promises to the fathers he intends to keep)

 

[SarahM777]

It'll take more than that to wake me up.

Read Mt 12:24-45 (Israel's rejection)

All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet: "I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world."
(Mat 13:34-35)

With many such parables he spoke the word to them, as they were able to hear it. He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything.
(Mar 4:33-34)


And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Mat 16:18)

So do you have any Scriptures stating "His Church is now the New Israel. " ?

Crossnote the word church IS NOT IN THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT. The word that they translated as church IN GREEK is ekklesia the word means called out ones,assembly,congregation. That same word in the Septuigent for the ASSEMBLY OF ISRAEL,and in Acts it is also used for city council and the assembly of Israel in the wilderness.

 

[SarahM777]

?



His Church is now the New Israel.
As for the National Israel and her nationalistic expectations from the Messiah: keep dreaming.

That is the biggest twist that people have made in this whole thing. "The Church" is NOT NEW ISRAEL,the body of believers in the NT is a CONTINUATION of believing Israel with the Gentiles Grafted in. It was was and always will be ONE BODY of believers. The NT saints are under ISRAEL'S new covenant. The new covenant was NOT GIVEN directly to the Gentiles but to ISRAEL. The first believers under the New Covenant were of ISRAEL. Did the apostles STOP BEING OF ISRAEL?

 

[SarahM777]

No, and again, I am not assuming anything.

They already knew about the earthly kingdom. They understood about the heavenly kingdom (the reason he came this time) he spent 40 days talking about that, and here at the end, they said, I understand now why you came this time, when are you coming back to do what else you were prophesied to do.

Jesus answer?

1. You still do not get it. Why do I even bother trying?
2. You fools, I just spent 40 days trying to show you what the true kingdom was, and you still do not get it?
3. It is not for you to know the time when this will happen, do not worry about it, God is in control. it will happen when it happens?

I do not know about you. but I chose number 3. proving that he will one day in the future (as the prophets foretold) return and set up his earthly kingdom. Otherwise he would have denied it.

You are assuming something that CAN NOT proven from the text. You still have the problem that after Jesus DOES teach them about the kingdom,they NEVER AGAIN SPEAK of an earthly kingdom. And all you can do is ASSUME WHY they don't.

 

[SarahM777]

you still are not separating the two kingdoms.

the kingdom of God and the messianic kingdom are two events. We do not have a problem with what Jesus said, we agree with him. some did not taste death until they saw it come with power (pentecost) so he was right.

But non of them experienced the messianic kingdom, however they asked about it in Acts 1. proving they even understood it by this time..

Please show from scripture where Jesus speaks of TWO DIFFERENT KINGDOMS.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are assuming something that CAN NOT proven from the text. You still have the problem that after Jesus DOES teach them about the kingdom,they NEVER AGAIN SPEAK of an earthly kingdom. And all you can do is ASSUME WHY they don't.

You use the words assume like it helps you or something. Again, I am not assuming anything

The fact is, they did speak of the messianic kingdom as promised by the OT prophets. And jesus did not correct them, and only told them they do not need to worry about when that will happen.

Thus there is no assumption. only what Jesus said, which is fact.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please show from scripture where Jesus speaks of TWO DIFFERENT KINGDOMS.

it is ALL over the OT

Jesus mentioned in in matt 24 (he who endures to the end of tribulation will be saved physically) John mentions it. The apostles mentioned in acts 1 ( a fact you still deny) The apostle jon mentions it in revelation (1000 years) and paul mentions it in romans 11 (when the times of the gentile kingdoms are completed).

it is there, some people just do not want to see it. As you like to say, they assume it is not there.

 

[SarahM777]

it is ALL over the OT

Jesus mentioned in in matt 24 (he who endures to the end of tribulation will be saved physically) John mentions it. The apostles mentioned in acts 1 ( a fact you still deny) The apostle jon mentions it in revelation (1000 years) and paul mentions it in romans 11 (when the times of the gentile kingdoms are completed).

it is there, some people just do not want to see it. As you like to say, they assume it is not there.

EG Revelation 20 NEVER SAYS that they are RULING FROM EARTH.

 

[SarahM777]

You use the words assume like it helps you or something. Again, I am not assuming anything

The fact is, they did speak of the messianic kingdom as promised by the OT prophets. And jesus did not correct them, and only told them they do not need to worry about when that will happen.

Thus there is no assumption. only what Jesus said, which is fact.

You reading into the text that they were still looking for the earthly kingdom. IT'S NOT THERE.

You all leave out that God's will WAS NOT FOR A KINGDOM RULED FROM EARTH. The Father was Israel's king who RULED FROM HEAVEN. That is the Kingdom that is to be restored.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG Revelation 20 NEVER SAYS that they are RULING FROM EARTH.

it does not. where is he ruling then for 1000 years? The OT states he is ruling from earth. why do you not believe it?

as I said earlier, this is what the OT prophets say concerning the messianic kingdom

He will rule with a rod of Iron (not yet happened)
He will defeat all gentile nations (not yet happened)
He will restore Jacob to their land, from the nations who have taken them because of their sin (not yet happened)
He will sit on king davids throne, in jerusalem, And all gentile nations will come worship him there, the ones who do not, he will punish by withholding rain from their land (so you can not say this is heaven, no need of rain in heaven, nor will their be any punishment in heaven, because every knee will bow)

I can go on and on and on with so many prophesies concerning the messianic kingdom. Which you would have to allegorize to make them already fulfilled, because you can not take them literally, and declare them fulfilled.

and of course, during this time, Satan is bound, Unable to deceive nations anymore, Christ is in complete control. Please tell me you do not believe that is happening today, or for the last 2000 years.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You reading into the text that they were still looking for the earthly kingdom. IT'S NOT THERE.

You all leave out that God's will WAS NOT FOR A KINGDOM RULED FROM EARTH. The Father was Israel's king who RULED FROM HEAVEN. That is the Kingdom that is to be restored.

You can say it till your blue in the face.

JESUS DID NOT CORRECT THEM. HE TOLD THEM THEY DID NOT NEED TO KNOW WHEN IT WOULD HAPPEN. and YES. THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THE EARTHLY KINGDOM.


[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

They were not talking about a heavenly kingdom here, they were talking about the restoration promised in the OT.

You CAN NOT GET OVER THAT FACT sarah. without twistiing the words of God, and making God a liare concerning the messianic kingdom. The messianic kingdom is NOT the kingdom of God as we know it to be today.

 

[SarahM777]

it is ALL over the OT

Jesus mentioned in in matt 24 (he who endures to the end of tribulation will be saved physically) John mentions it. The apostles mentioned in acts 1 ( a fact you still deny) The apostle jon mentions it in revelation (1000 years) and paul mentions it in romans 11 (when the times of the gentile kingdoms are completed).

it is there, some people just do not want to see it. As you like to say, they assume it is not there.

The NT opens up the OT. It does NOT work the other way around. You also forget that there is BOTH an earthly and heavenly Jerusalem,Mount Zion,Temple etc etc etc. Many of the OT are NOT SPEAKING OF THE EARTHLY but the HEAVENLY.


Where in Matthew 24 does Jesus say anything about an EARTHLY KINGDOM?

Matthew 24

24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. [SUP]6 [/SUP]You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All these are the beginning of birth pains.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. [SUP]10 [/SUP]At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, [SUP]13 [/SUP]but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[SUP][a][/SUP] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— [SUP]16 [/SUP]then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. [SUP]19 [/SUP]How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! [SUP]20 [/SUP]Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. [SUP]23 [/SUP]At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you ahead of time.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[SUP][b][/SUP]

[SUP]30 [/SUP]“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[SUP][c][/SUP] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]31 [/SUP]And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[SUP][e][/SUP] is near, right at the door. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Not once in Matthew 24 does Jesus says He returns to establish an earthly kingdom.

You're reading into Romans 11 that it is an earthly Kingdom. Paul does NOT say that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The NT opens up the OT. It does NOT work the other way around. You also forget that there is BOTH an earthly and heavenly Jerusalem,Mount Zion,Temple etc etc etc. Many of the OT are NOT SPEAKING OF THE EARTHLY but the HEAVENLY.


Where in Matthew 24 does Jesus say anything about an EARTHLY KINGDOM?

Matthew 24

24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. [SUP]6 [/SUP]You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All these are the beginning of birth pains.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. [SUP]10 [/SUP]At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, [SUP]11 [/SUP]and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, [SUP]13 [/SUP]but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[SUP][a][/SUP] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— [SUP]16 [/SUP]then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. [SUP]19 [/SUP]How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! [SUP]20 [/SUP]Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. [SUP]23 [/SUP]At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you ahead of time.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[SUP][b][/SUP]

[SUP]30 [/SUP]“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[SUP][c][/SUP] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]31 [/SUP]And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[SUP][e][/SUP] is near, right at the door. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Not once in Matthew 24 does Jesus says He returns to establish an earthly kingdom.

You're reading into Romans 11 that it is an earthly Kingdom. Paul does NOT say that.

wow. you really are fighting this arent you? why are so so head bent on this?

Zechariah 14:16
[ The Nations Worship the King ] And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

tell us sarah, when in the last two thousand years has this happened? can you show me?

and you can not say it is a heavenly thing. for it follows with this.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

so when did this all occur?

this is supposed to happen AFTER the time of jacobs trouble (or as jesus called in the great tribulation)
it is supposed to happen after jesus returns to earth and wipes out evil and restores Israel
it is supposed to happen after jesus sets up his messianic kingdom, as spoken of by Jesus and John in revelation.

so when did this all happen?

 

[Straightshot]

"NT opens up the OT. It does NOT work the other way around."


You have not one scripture to support your statement .... the Lord's Word is one book .... not divided

Show the forum the scriptural instruction that you tout ...."the NT open up the OT"

You parrot the song of replacement theology that you have been taught and your precept is not biblical, but man made

To believe what you say is folly .... and what you use it for is to promote the devil's barking .... you are listening to the father of lies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jZdbK08IA

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"NT opens up the OT. It does NOT work the other way around."


You have not one scripture to support your statement .... the Lord's Word is one book .... not divided

Show the forum the scriptural instruction that you tout ...."the NT open up the OT"

You parrot the song of replacement theology that you have been taught and your precept is not biblical, but man made

To believe what you say is folly .... and what you use it for is to promote the devil's barking .... you are listening to the father of lies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jZdbK08IA

what is amazing is she thinks I believe this way because I was taught this way, which is far from the truth, my belief today is so far from what I was raised and taught it is not even close. it came from years of personal study, not from what the people i looked up to taught me.