Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[Straightshot]

What this one thinks does not always matter .... there is a way that seems right to a man [woman]

It does take time for the believer to be led into all truth and you have obviously been led there regarding the subject of this post

And the Lord's Word is a double edged sword .... it cuts clean both ways

The idea that there is a divide between the OT and the NT is absurd .... the original manuscripts have no divide

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What this one thinks does not always matter .... there is a way that seems right to a man [woman]

It does take time for the believer to be led into all truth and you have obviously been led there regarding the subject of this post

And the Lord's Word is a double edged sword .... it cuts clean both ways

The idea that there is a divide between the OT and the NT is absurd .... the original manuscripts have no divide

Amen, there is no divide, It was what paul called the mystery, the mystery was NOT that God would ONLY have a spiritual kingdom. It was that KING messiah and Suffering servant are one and the same. (no one, even the disciples, understood this until after Christ died)

 

[crossnote]

Crossnote the word church IS NOT IN THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT. The word that they translated as church IN GREEK is ekklesia the word means called out ones,assembly,congregation. That same word in the Septuigent for the ASSEMBLY OF ISRAEL,and in Acts it is also used for city council and the assembly of Israel in the wilderness.

There are many 'called out' groups called ekklesia, there's even a mob in the book of Acts where the same word is used.

 

[crossnote]

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham'

I think a first anticipation that God's people are those who obey and love Him and not those who happen to be of Jewish blood is found in the sayings of Saint John the Baptizer.

Saint Paul would have agreed with John. I recommend you read Galatians, Philippians and Romans if you want to see who is now the New Israel.

I believe I have read them if my memory serves me correctly,; do you have any particular verses in mind?

 

[crossnote]

There are many 'called out' groups called ekklesia, there's even a mob in the book of Acts where the same word is used.

To be more precise. ..

Acts 19:32 Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the assembly was confused; and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together.

The word 'assembly' is ekklesia. Hardly a church in either the ot or nt sense.

 

[Straightshot]

"he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?"


And He would tell you or anyone else the same thing

.... and He has warned in advance

Do not second guess Him, and also do not think that you can throw your problem on to the "Jews"

What He is doing with Israel is His business to do .... not yours

Look at yourself .... and make certain that you are ready as He has warned

 

[GuessWho]

How can you say that?

He will rule with a rod of Iron (not yet happened)
He will defeat all gentile nations (not yet happened)
He will restore Jacob to their land, from the nations who have taken them because of their sin (not yet happened)
He will sit on king davids throne, in jerusalem, And all gentile nations will come worship him there, the ones who do not, he will punish by withholding rain from their land (so you can not say this is heaven, no need of rain in heaven, nor will their be any punishment in heaven, because every knee will bow)

I can go on and on and on with so many prophesies concerning the messianic kingdom. Which you would have to allegorize to make them already fulfilled, because you can not take them literally, and declare them fulfilled.

All promises of God have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ; now, we, christians, His people, wait for the coming of His Kingdom.

1. The first prophecy will be fulfilled at His Second Coming when the earth and heaven will be joined together in what the Bible calls the New Earth and the New Heaven (God's Kingdom).
2. The second prophecy had been also fulfilled by Jesus Christ: what do you think He did on the cross? Who is the real enemy of the people (Israel)? Rome? The Gentiles? Christ showed them the real enemy that must be defeated: Sin.
3. The Jews rejected Christ: His restoration is not a national restoration, but the restoration of His Kingdom. Who is part ofHis Kingdom? If His people rejected Him, if His people refused the invitation to the wedding, then His people is those (both Jews and Gentiles) who accepted Christ. In other words: the Christian Church.
4. Christ fulfilled that prophecy too: He entered in Jerusalem and was received like a King; only that His throne was the cross. Now we wait for His glorious Second Coming.
5. The fifth point refers to the Kingdom of God (again). All christians are looking for the establishment of God's Kingdom (a Kingdom not of this earth, not political nor nationalistic).

 

[GuessWho]

The exile from which Christ saved Israel (and the whole cosmos) was death. It has nothing to do with the political aspirations and ambitions of Jews (both Jews from today as Jews from the 1 century).

 

[Straightshot]

"1. The first prophecy will be fulfilled at His Second Coming when the earth and heaven will be joined together in what the Bible calls the New Earth and the New Heaven (God's Kingdom)"


I will stop you right here .... your first premise is wrong

Not true

First the mystery kingdom of His Ecclesia .... no connection with this present world ... in it, but not of it

Next, He will rule the earth from Jerusalem in person over a kingdom of mortals for 1000 years

Next, He will bring His eternal kingdom and His restoration action related to His entire creation

 

[GuessWho]

I believe I have read them if my memory serves me correctly,; do you have any particular verses in mind?

The whole New Testament is about how God fulfilled His promises to His people, about the New/Renewed Covenant with "whosoever believed in His only Begotten Son". Saint Paul is focused in showing who are the real Jews: the physically circumcised ones, or those circumcised in the hearts? In Christ, says Saint Paul, there is no Jew, nor Gentile: whoever believes in Him, belongs to Him. Anyone who believes can enter in the New Covenant, in the new family of God. Saint Paul also argues in Antioch with Cephas because of his nationalistic pride. Saint Paul argues in Galatians with those who wanted to become "physical" Jews (by circumcision): there is no need of that! All what it takes to enter in God's New Covenant is to believe in Christ.

 

[GuessWho]

How can you say that?

He will rule with a rod of Iron (not yet happened)
He will defeat all gentile nations (not yet happened)
He will restore Jacob to their land, from the nations who have taken them because of their sin (not yet happened)
He will sit on king davids throne, in jerusalem, And all gentile nations will come worship him there, the ones who do not, he will punish by withholding rain from their land (so you can not say this is heaven, no need of rain in heaven, nor will their be any punishment in heaven, because every knee will bow)

I can go on and on and on with so many prophesies concerning the messianic kingdom. Which you would have to allegorize to make them already fulfilled, because you can not take them literally, and declare them fulfilled.

[h=1]2 Corinthians 1:20New International Version (NIV)[/h]20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. And so through him the “Amen” is spoken by us to the glory of God.

 

[crossnote]

The whole New Testament is about how God fulfilled His promises to His people, about the New/Renewed Covenant with "whosoever believed in His only Begotten Son". Saint Paul is focused in showing who are the real Jews: the physically circumcised ones, or those circumcised in the hearts? In Christ, says Saint Paul, there is no Jew, nor Gentile: whoever believes in Him, belongs to Him. Anyone who believes can enter in the New Covenant, in the new family of God. Saint Paul also argues in Antioch with Cephas because of his nationalistic pride. Saint Paul argues in Galatians with those who wanted to become "physical" Jews (by circumcision): there is no need of that! All what it takes to enter in God's New Covenant is to believe in Christ.

I'm not arguing that faith is not required and that the true Israel are those who were not only born in the lineage of Jacob but had faith in their Messiah. In Galatians the gentiles didn’t want to become physical Jews per se but were told they had to be circumcisied to be saved by the false teachers.

Here, maybe this will ease your mind, I hold to the 5 Solas of the Refotmation because I believe they are Scriptural.

Scripture alone.
Christ alone.
Grace alone.
Faith alone.
To the Glory of God alone.

So don't worry, I'm not into a legalistic Judaism even though I believe God will be dealing with them directly in the near future.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All promises of God have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ; now, we, christians, His people, wait for the coming of His Kingdom.

1. The first prophecy will be fulfilled at His Second Coming when the earth and heaven will be joined together in what the Bible calls the New Earth and the New Heaven (God's Kingdom).
2. The second prophecy had been also fulfilled by Jesus Christ: what do you think He did on the cross? Who is the real enemy of the people (Israel)? Rome? The Gentiles? Christ showed them the real enemy that must be defeated: Sin.
3. The Jews rejected Christ: His restoration is not a national restoration, but the restoration of His Kingdom. Who is part ofHis Kingdom? If His people rejected Him, if His people refused the invitation to the wedding, then His people is those (both Jews and Gentiles) who accepted Christ. In other words: the Christian Church.
4. Christ fulfilled that prophecy too: He entered in Jerusalem and was received like a King; only that His throne was the cross. Now we wait for His glorious Second Coming.
5. The fifth point refers to the Kingdom of God (again). All christians are looking for the establishment of God's Kingdom (a Kingdom not of this earth, not political nor nationalistic).

sorry sis, You did not respond to any of the things I posted concerning what the OT states concerning king messiah and his reign. Nothing in this posts responds to the points of scripture which was shown.

If you would like to discuss this, thats fine, if you just want to state you opinion without actually responing to what is said to you. we can get no where.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The exile from which Christ saved Israel (and the whole cosmos) was death. It has nothing to do with the political aspirations and ambitions of Jews (both Jews from today as Jews from the 1 century).

Never said they did, No one in here has, So not sure where your getting your information that people believe this. Mind if I ask who your arguing with in this post?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Corinthians 1:20New International Version (NIV)

20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. And so through him the “Amen” is spoken by us to the glory of God.

Your correct.

When Israel says "yes in christ" Then as all the OT prophets, Paul in romans 11, and so many other places. They will be restored as in accordance with lev 26.

so not sure what your point is, we agree that yes must come first.

 

[GuessWho]

sorry sis, You did not respond to any of the things I posted concerning what the OT states concerning king messiah and his reign. Nothing in this posts responds to the points of scripture which was shown.

If you would like to discuss this, thats fine, if you just want to state you opinion without actually responing to what is said to you. we can get no where.

So Christ isn't the Messiah? The King? He didn't fulfill God's promises in His Sacrifice and Resurrection?

Interesting.

 

[GuessWho]

Your correct.

When Israel says "yes in christ" Then as all the OT prophets, Paul in romans 11, and so many other places. They will be restored as in accordance with lev 26.

so not sure what your point is, we agree that yes must come first.

You argue that God didn't fulfill His promises. I show you what Saint Paul said in respect of God's promises: they are "yes".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You argue that God didn't fulfill His promises. I show you what Saint Paul said in respect of God's promises: they are "yes".

No, I did not say this, God did fulfill his promise,

The point is, He still is fulfilling them is he not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So Christ isn't the Messiah? The King? He didn't fulfill God's promises in His Sacrifice and Resurrection?

Interesting.

Again, you did not respond to my post. Why did the OT say those things concerning the messianic kingdom when they have yet to occur. why is that? Did the prophets lie?

 

[psalm6819]

So Christ isn't the Messiah? The King? He didn't fulfill God's promises in His Sacrifice and Resurrection?

Interesting.

In His first coming Jeus was a sacrifice-nobody killed Him, the Ultimate Passover Lamb. In His Second Coming He rules over the nations with a rod of iron. Yes, His sacrifice and resurrection are fulfillment of prophecy, as will be the calling away fo the church and He Will rule physically as the King of Kings on earth. That's the apex of our Bible-the Return of the King!!! He'll keep His promises to Israel, the Church and cast Satan down forever.