GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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joefizz

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That's pretty disingenuous. It's called the law of Moses 22 times in the bible.
Well then maybe you can show me where Moses created a Law, since I'm being disingenuous.
I understand and respect "both your points" because Moses didn't "create a law" yet later on "people" as well as Jesus referred to the law as Moses's law but I think that's due to that often "people" would look to "head figures" such as Moses and at times "pay more attention to" and "praise" or "pay homage" to such figures over God because of a few simple reasons...
1.They couldn't see God
2.They didn't like how God "delivered" them from Egypt and other such hardships and would constantly "tempt" God to anger.
 

lightbearer

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Yep God will we are to be holy, but we always fail, repent and back sin.

We are not perfect, till we are in heaven.

David is our senior in faith, yet he kill Uriah and committed adultery with his wife. It not an excuse to sin, but an example that human is not perfect.
No it is an example that David was not perfect. And by the way he is not our senior in Faith, Jesus is. We are to look to Jesus as are Senior; are example. But if one was to look at a man, John the Baptist would be the the one. He had an excellent report from HIM who we have are do.
 
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I understand and respect "both your points" because Moses didn't "create a law" yet later on "people" as well as Jesus referred to the law as Moses's law but I think that's due to that often "people" would look to "head figures" such as Moses and at times "pay more attention to" and "praise" or "pay homage" to such figures over God because of a few simple reasons...
1.They couldn't see God
2.They didn't like how God "delivered" them from Egypt and other such hardships and would constantly "tempt" God to anger.
I think it has to do with the fact that the people requested that man give the law instead of GOD.

And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. Exodus 20:19

The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. Deuteronomy 18:15-16
 

Jackson123

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No it is an example that David was not perfect. And by the way he is not our senior in Faith, Jesus is. We are to look to Jesus as are Senior; are example. But if one was to look at a man, John the Baptist would be the the one. He had an excellent report from HIM who we have are do.
Jesus is our God, Abraham is a senior of faith, yet he is not perfect and was lie, say Sarah is his sister.

John the Babtis was not perfect either, he send his disciples to us whether Jesus is Messiah.

So believer is not perfect.

Romans 4:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
 

Studyman

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I understand and respect "both your points" because Moses didn't "create a law" yet later on "people" as well as Jesus referred to the law as Moses's law but I think that's due to that often "people" would look to "head figures" such as Moses and at times "pay more attention to" and "praise" or "pay homage" to such figures over God because of a few simple reasons...
1.They couldn't see God
2.They didn't like how God "delivered" them from Egypt and other such hardships and would constantly "tempt" God to anger.
Yes, it is true, "many" couldn't see God. But not everyone. If you read the account of Caleb, it is evident that He did see God. There were "many" with him that called the God of Abraham their God, but they couldn't "See him". There is a stark difference between those who knew God/Jesus and those who did not. This difference was ignored by the Mainstream Church of Christ's time and before by the "many". But not by a few which were later praised by God Himself in the Faith Chapter.

This stark difference between Cain and Abel, Eve and Abraham, Caleb and the rest of the bunch is repeated over and over in the Bible.

Num. 24:
21 But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.
22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

This theme is present through out the Bible.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Like Caleb and Abraham and Noah and Zechariahs and Rehab and Cornelius.

And Paul believed and taught this very same thing.

1 Cor. 10:
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

This is the Same Word which became Flesh that we all claim as our God.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Here is this same Biblical Truth. Not all, but "MANY" couldn't see God as you correctly said. Why could Abraham see and understand God but Eve couldn't. Why could Caleb believe but the others couldn't. The answer is simple. "Some hearkened to the voice of God but "many" didn't."

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples
: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth (As did EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, and also EVERY person on this forum) take heed lest he fall.

It doesn't matter who delivers God's Word. Moses or Jesus, the Word is the same.

I have asked "Many" on this forum to explain to me why Zechariahs and the Wise Men knew Jesus when He came but Saul and the Pharisees didn't.

I believe the reason is exactly the same reason Caleb knew God but the rest of them didn't. But "many" refuse to engage the subject.

In closing I think the Word spells this out Both as the Word, and as Jesus the Man.

Matt. 7:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. ("Have not hearkened to My Voice")

Jer. 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.
 

posthuman

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I have asked "Many" on this forum to explain to me why Zechariahs and the Wise Men knew Jesus when He came but Saul and the Pharisees didn't.
Same reason shepherds, foreigners, prostitutes, sinners, tax collectors and Samaritans recognized Him while others didn't.

Matthew 11:25-27
At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

John 6:44-46
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me-- not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.

John 6:63-65
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."

Not by might nor by power but by His Spirit.
No delight in the strength of man's legs. Knowing the thoughts of all men, that they are vanity.
Not by human will, desire or exertion, but by God who has mercy.

The sinner who said 'have mercy!' is the one who went home justified, the God who has mercy is the very same one who made the eye that sees and the ear that hears

That no one may boast :)
 

Studyman

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Same reason shepherds, foreigners, prostitutes, sinners, tax collectors and Samaritans recognized Him while others didn't.
Wow,

So I have to reject God's Words and continue to Transgress God's Commandments in order to "know Jesus". What about repentance? Isn't that part of your religion?

Matthew 11:25-27
At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

And who does Jesus, not you Post, or your preachers, but who does Jesus say He Reveals Himself to? Isn't His Word's important?

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Do you not believe in this same Jesus? Is there another way to "know" Jesus than what He declares?

John 6:44-46
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me-- not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.
And who will the Father send to Jesus? Those who reject His Commandments, refused to "Walk in" the good works God has before ordained that we should walk in them?

In your religion, can a fornicator, liar, thief, murderer, or people who practice "iniquity" enter the Kingdom of heaven? Are these things required in your religion in order to know Jesus?

John 6:63-65
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."
And who will God and Jesus abode with? Those Prostitutes who continue in fornication? Those liars who refuse to repent, those sinners who refuse to humble themselves to the Great God of Abraham?

What about all those who repent of their fleshy ways and turn to God and bring forth fruits worthy of repentance? Is there no place for these people in your religion?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Do you not believe in this Jesus?

What did Jesus say to the prostitute Post? Come as you are? You don't need to change your ways? I only accept those who reject God's Commandments?

No Post, He told her as He tells us all "Go and sin no more".

In your religion, are repentant prostitutes not welcome? Are repentant sinners rejected from your gospel?


Not by might nor by power but by His Spirit.
No delight in the strength of man's legs. Knowing the thoughts of all men, that they are vanity.
Not by human will, desire or exertion, but by God who has mercy.
And who has God said He will have Mercy on? Only those who reject His instructions? Only those who refuse His Words? Only those who teach falsehoods about His Word?

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

How am I doing my own work by denying myself and letting Him guide my footsteps? How is submitting to the teaching of the Word which became Flesh, doing my own works?


The sinner who said 'have mercy!' is the one who went home justified, the God who has mercy is the very same one who made the eye that sees and the ear that hears

That no one may boast :)

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Once again, You would think that a discussion about Zechariahs would include what the Word of God actually said about him. One would think you would consult with, or at least include what God's Word says about who God and Jesus will abode with, who God and Jesus said they would manifest themselves to. Should a discussion regarding Zechariahs include scriptures about him?

But you don't seem to be really interested in what they have to say about this questions.

From my point of view, the Pharisees, the Mainstream preachers of Christ's time, didn't much care about what Jesus had to say either. They had their religion, and their religious traditions, and nothing Jesus, The Prophets, the Apostles, or God Almighty has to say "Changed" their mind.

Isn't that exactly what the Word which became Flesh said would happen?

Jer. 6:
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

In your religion, are these Words we are to be admonished by?
 

posthuman

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who has God said He will have Mercy on
Exodus 33:19
And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
 

Studyman

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Exodus 33:19
And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
You see, I don't believe you can use this verse to erase, make Void or destroy the Word's of God below, nor do I believe it is righteous to want to do so.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Yes, God is God, and He can have Mercy on whomever He wants. But God is not unjust. He is not a human. He doesn't make a promise one day then renege on the same promise the next day.

At least my God, the Word which became Flesh, doesn't.

It seems we follow different God's.
 

Studyman

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LOL,

This reminds me of a joke I once heard.

An old married couple were having a fight and the woman, in anger, yelled at her partner: You are unfaithful, dishonest, and your feet stink.

And the husband yells back in self-righteous indignation, "You slander me, my feet do not stink".

LOL.
 

posthuman

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Psalms 145:8-9
The LORD [is] gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.
The LORD [is] good to all: and His tender mercies [are] over all His works.
 

posthuman

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Mark 5:18-19
As Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-possessed begged to go with Him. Jesus did not let him, but said, "Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how He has had mercy on you."


what should we think about when we remember His rest? :)
 

lightbearer

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No it is an example that David was not perfect. And by the way he is not our senior in Faith, Jesus is. We are to look to Jesus as are Senior; are example. But if one was to look at a man, John the Baptist would be the the one. He had an excellent report from HIM who we have are do.
Jesus is our God, Abraham is a senior of faith,
We are to have the Faith of Jesus working in us. We are to be dead nevertheless alive yet not us but Christ living in us. And the life we are to be living is to be by the Faith OF Jesus Christ.

Abraham and John the Baptist are not our examples of what is available to us through GOD's Spirit; Jesus is.
Stop looking for and promoting an excuse for sin.

yet he is not perfect and was lie, say Sarah is his sister.

John the Babtis was not perfect either, he send his disciples to us whether Jesus is Messiah.

So believer is not perfect.
There is no excuse for sin through Christ.
Through Him we can do all things because He strengthens us.

With the mind set you are proclaiming you set the man of GOD up for a fall immediately. Because It is not of Faith; it is sin from the start.

Romans 4:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
That is right through Faith.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


And the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word; the law) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word; the law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

For Christ (the word; the Law in our hearts and mouths) is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 1:15-17; 10:6-8, 4)

Do we then make void the Law through Faith? Nay we finally establish it through Christ. Because it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not us but Christ. He doeth the work because He is the vine and we are the branches. Without Him we can do nothing. But with Him all things are possible!

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes we were healed. He condemned sin in the flesh that the righteousness of GOD be fulfilled in us that walk after Spirit and not after the flesh.

So go and sin no more lest something worse happen to us. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(1Pe 2:24; 2Pe 2:20-22; Heb 10:26-31)
 

lightbearer

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Mark 5:18-19
As Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-possessed begged to go with Him. Jesus did not let him, but said, "Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how He has had mercy on you."


what should we think about when we remember His rest? :)
Resting as the Commandment commands and is reiterated in Hebrews 4:10. We cease from our own work as GOD did from HIS. HE RESTED; so we rest, because it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
 

lightbearer

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Which has zero to do with gathering to worship on a specific day of the week.


I am still waiting on the Sabbath folks to provide a scripture from Jesus, the Mediator of the New Covenant, that “commands” the Church to gather on the Sabbath.


JPT
The Command is to rest. The Sabbath is a THE day of Rest. Jesus mentions the Sabbath quite often. No where did He abolish it. He observed it, so we observe it. Because He is the Vine and we are the branches. And it is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
 

beta

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To justpassingthrough.....where is your LOVE for the Lord ? must we still be COMMANDED to love Him ? that was OT teaching....
NOW that we WALK with Him and know Him we become as HE IS and will in our New Nature BE as HE IS.....thinking, speaking and DOING what HE DOES. Keeping the Sabbath holy was in HIS divine Nature because He LOVED the Father and always did what pleased Him....NOT because He was commanded Joh 8v29.
INdirectly the command is still there when we are told to be OBEDIENT to God but the MOTIVE has changed - law is no longer the focus/main reason but LOVE !!! That is the 'change in the law' mentioned in Heb 7v12....NOT as christians have assumed to reject it.
 

lightbearer

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Don't have to Peter did it in the verse we are looking at.
ὁ G3588 T-NSM
δὲ But G1161 CONJ
Πέτρος Peter G4074 N-NSM
εἶπεν Said, G2036 V-2AAI-3S
Μηδαμῶς In No Wise, G3365 ADV
κύριε Lord; G2962 N-VSM
ὅτι For G3754 CONJ
οὐδέποτε Never G3763 ADV
ἔφαγον Did I Eat G5315 V-2AAI-1S
πᾶν Anything G3956 A-ASN
κοινὸν Common G2839 A-ASN
ἢ Or G2228 PRT
ἀκάθαρτον Unclean. G169 A-ASN
(Act 10:14 TRi)

Let us look at the Greek word ἢ Or G2228 PRT. It is a Disjunctive Particle. It expresses a choice between two mutually exclusive possibilities. They lack any connection; they are exclusive.
From Strong's entry:
G2228
ἤ

ay
A primary particle of distinction between two connected terms;

Couple that with the post to which you responded. Which brings to out attention that GOD never mentions the unclean only the common.


So where did Peter get the idea that some of the animals to which he was seeing in the vision were common?

Studyman has the answer to this. The Pharisees had their own set of laws did they not? Mark 7 makes this perfectly clear. That is the chapter to which Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for their man made laws. Here is an interesting read I found today.

https://messianicpublications.com/robert-roy/a-hebraic-perspective-on-peters-vision-acts-10/
Regardless

In the vision Peter was given 3 times by God he was commanded to eat every kind of bird and animal.
No HE did not. He said arise and eat. Keep in mind all manner of beast were set before him, animals that are considered clean also. All Peter had to do was pick one of those. But he did not. He chose none. He classified the whole lot as Common and unclean.

If you have Peter under the old covenant at all you have God Himself commanding him to break it.
The Law; the Word; Christ is in our hearts and in our mouths as Peter's so we under the New Covenant. GOD working in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

So do you have any other corroborating example of God demanding His servant to do evil?
You are mistaken in your thinking above and in this. Regardless what GOD asks us to do it is not evil as we see it or interpret it from Scripture. But since you asked Abraham offering Isaac as a human sacrifice.
 
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The Command is to rest. The Sabbath is a THE day of Rest. Jesus mentions the Sabbath quite often. No where did He abolish it. He observed it, so we observe it. Because He is the Vine and we are the branches. And it is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
You're teaching is so old covenant.

The new covenant command is to always cease from works of the flesh. In that way we enter into his rest, of which the weekly sabbath is but a shadow.