Great GRACE Departure - WHICH Day?

GRACE_ambassador · Sep 29, 2021

Precious friends, for your Prayerful And Careful Consideration:

LORD JESUS, Please Grant us Thy Divine Help to understand Thy Word Of Truth,
Rightly Divided. Amen.

Introduction:

The Day Of CHRIST:

“Mystery” CHURCH: Designated as the “Heavenly” Day of CHRIST, Which Will
Be The Day Of the consummation of our salvation (into glorification!), And,
Presenting of our “rewards!”
(Philippians 1:6, 10, 2:16; 1 Corinthians 1:8, 3:8-15; 2 Corinthians 1:14).

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

Day Of The LORD:

Israel’s KINGDOM: Designated as the “Earthly” Day Of The LORD, which will be, first
of all, a day of Judgment to be followed by the establishment of the Kingdom!
(Isaiah 13:9-16, 24:21-23, 26:20-21, 34:1 to 35:10; Ezekiel 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1-11, 2:1-11;
Amos 5:16-20; Obadiah 1:15-21; Zephaniah 1:14-18; Zephaniah 14:1-21; Malachi 4:1-6;
Matthew 25:31-46; Acts 2:19-21)

===================================================

Part I {Article by C.R. Stam}:

The Day Of The LORD!

The Scriptures have much to Say about “the Day of The LORD,” but precisely what is
The Day of The LORD?

Generally speaking, of course, it refers to the time when the day of man, or “the times
of the Gentiles,” will be brought to an end, and “The LORD Alone Shall Be Exalted”
(Isaiah 2:11,17). But will it include more than the actual Return and Reign of CHRIST?
Will it include the prophesied tribulation period, during which God will bring Gentile
rule to an end? We believe it will.

One pastor who teaches that the Body of CHRIST will go through the tribulation
and that its Rapture to be with CHRIST will follow the tribulation, writes:

“The Day of The LORD follows the tribulation and it is the day of the LORD’s

wrath upon those who ‘know not God and obey not The Gospel of our

LORD JESUS CHRIST’” (2 Thessalonians 1:8). It comes as ‘a thief in the

night,’ which is not so with the tribulation.”

But this interpretation does not take into account ALL That Is Said In Scripture
about “The Day of The LORD” — and contradicts some of it.

When our LORD Returns to earth In Person, “in flaming fire taking vengeance” and
“punishing” with “everlasting destruction,” HE will evidently dispatch His enemies
forthwith. There is no evidence that this will cover a protracted period of time.

Paul, describing the arrival of Day Of The LORD in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 says
nothing about The Personal Return of CHRIST, but he does describe a protracted
period of suffering and trouble. Read this statement carefully:

“The Day of The LORD so cometh as a thief in the night, for when they shall say,

Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon

a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

First, note that the phrase “thief in the night” is not used to describe suddenness,
but unexpectedness. The thief plans his visit for the time when he will be least
expected. This phrase is so used of our LORD’s Return to earth in Matthew 24:43,44.

But 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 states that the “destruction” of “The Day of The LORD”
will also come as “a thief in the night.”

The Antichrist will have made a seven-year covenant with Israel and the world will
enjoy three and a half years of “peace and safety.” Then, unexpectedly, he will break
the covenant and defile the temple, plunging the nations into the most terrible
time of trouble they have ever experienced (See Daniel 9:27; 12:1; Matthew 24:21).

Actually God will take over as the “great tribulation” breaks, letting
the nations of the world bring their uncalled-for rebellion to a head.

Next, note the phrase, “as travail upon a woman with child.” When Antichrist
breaks his covenant with Israel “in the midst of the week” (Daniel 9:27),
“destruction” will break out suddenly. This does not mean, however, that it
will run its course in a moment. Rather, it will “come upon them” suddenly, and
run its course “as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

The travail of a woman with child takes time. The birth pangs
increase both in frequency and in intensity until the child is born.

This, we suggest, illustrates the “great tribulation” far more accurately than it does
the actual Return of CHRIST, for during the great tribulation the world’s troubles
will indeed increase both in frequency and intensity “and they shall not escape.”

This “destruction,” to take place during “The Day of The LORD,” will overtake
the world of the ungodly unexpectedly, just when they are congratulating
themselves as having attained “Peace and safety!” (1 Thessalonians 5:3).

Now please think carefully. Will anyone be saying, “Peace and safety” at the
close of the “great tribulation”? Will anyone rejoice in “Peace and safety”
as the battle of Armageddon rages? How, then, can this passage about
“The Day of The LORD” refer only to the Return of CHRIST, after the tribulation?

But when we see that “The Day of The LORD” begins with,
rather than after the tribulation, all is in order.

As we know, the seven years of the tribulation will begin with the rider on the
“white horse” (Revelation 6:1,2 — evidently Antichrist cp. Revelation 19:11 —
The True CHRIST!), who goes forth “conquering and to conquer.” Like Antiochus
Epiphanes, he will “come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries”
(Daniel 11:21). All will go well for him and he will bring to the world a kind of peace
that will win him universal allegiance. “Peace and safety!” the world will exclaim.

But of the rider on the next horse we read: “and power was given to him that sat
thereon to take peace from the earth” (Revelation 6:4). Then follow war, famine
and death (Verses 3-8).

This “destruction” will come suddenly when, after three and a half years
(“in the midst of the week”), Antichrist will betray Israel and break his seven-year
covenant with them (Daniel 9:27), and will, like Antiochus Epiphanes, desecrate
the temple (Daniel 9:27; 11:31; Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4).

There we have it! Our “post-tribulation” brethren say that “The Day of The LORD follows
the tribulation.” Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3, makes it clear that The Day of The LORD
includes the tribulation. They have men in the closing, most terrible hours of the
tribulation saying, “Peace and safety!” They have The LORD’s Speedy Judgment of
the ungodly described by“travail upon a woman with child”!

No, the Rapture of the Body of CHRIST to be With HIM will not follow the tribulation;
it will precede it. Thus the Apostle Paul, after writing about the Rapture of the Body
in 1 Thessalonians 4, continues in Chapter 5 with The Word “But,” to show the
disrelation of God’s prophesied “times and seasons” and “The Day of The LORD,” From
That Blessed Day {Of CHRIST}, for which every believer should be “looking, waiting, And
watching!”

“Wherefore comfort one another with These Words” (1 Thessalonians 4:18), and “be not
soon troubled” (2 Thessalonians 2:2), for like the Thessalonian believers we are to
“serve the living and true God, and to wait for HIS SON from heaven…Who Hath
Delivered us from the wrath to come” (1 Thessalonians 1:9,10).

to be continued...

GRACE_ambassador · Sep 29, 2021

Part II Day Of The LORD!

THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS

As we have demonstrated, the prophesied Day Of The LORD takes us back to the middle
of the Tribulation when the “peace and safety” that Antichrist brings, will be suddenly
broken, and the horrors of the “great tribulation” will come upon this world “as travail
upon a woman with child.”

With God’s help, we will seek further to show from Scripture that The “Day of The LORD”
takes us back even to the beginning of the Tribulation period, for the first three and a
half years of the Tribulation are the introduction to the rest.

Here we must ask what will cause men to say “peace and safety”?
2 Thessalonians 2 gives us light on this. In Verse 7 the Apostle says:

“For the mystery of iniquity doth already work, only He who now

letteth [hindereth] will let [hinder], until He be taken out of the way.”

We take this to be The Holy Spirit In The Church. Not that The Holy Spirit will not be
Operating on the earth during the Tribulation, but He Will be taken out of the way as
a Restraining Force when The Church Is Caught Up to be With CHRIST! Verse 8:

“And then shall that Wicked [one] be revealed, whom The LORD

shall consume with the spirit of HIS Mouth, and shall destroy

with the brightness of HIS Coming.”

The “then” of Verse 8 is also used in a broad sense, for it is obvious that while the
full manifestation of Antichrist will take place in the midst of the seven years of
the Tribulation, his destruction will take place at the end of the seven years.

Doubtless his manifestation will be a gradual matter, for when he sits in the temple
of God, posing as God (Verse 4), he will already have held sway for three and a half
years. See what the Apostle says about this deceiver in Verses 9 and 10:

“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all

power and signs and lying wonders, “And with all deceivableness

of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not

the love of The Truth that they might be saved.”

It should be observed that not all wars begin with a battle, and God here begins
to wage war on this CHRIST-rejecting world by simply letting them believe the
big lie that they have always wanted to believe. How could God State More Clearly
That He Will Begin To Judge this wicked world than by Removing The Restraining
Influence and giving men up to Antichrist?

And, as we say, this takes us back to the beginning of the Tribulation. This first
part of the Tribulation ushers in The Judgments Of God for GRACE rejected.
Though God Has Sent His Message Of GRACE to all nations, they have turned
a deaf ear to it. They do not wish to acknowledge their sin and their need of
CHRIST! In John 5:40,43, we have The Words Of our LORD:

“Ye will not come unto Me that ye might have life.”

“I am come in My Father’s Name, and ye receive Me not:

if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.”

And this is exactly the case. The world has never received CHRIST, but when
Antichrist comes they will go wild over him. He is described in the Book of
Revelation as the rider on the white horse, going forth “conquering and to conquer.”

Well do we remember the days of Hitler as one nation after another fell before his
armies. He indeed went forth conquering, and many feared that he would continue
“to conquer” until the whole world was under his sway. This, thankfully, did not take
place, but with Antichrist his conquests will continue until he dominates all mankind.

It is of the utmost importance here to notice that this is God’s Judgment upon “them
that perish, because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved.”

“And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should

believe a lie, that they all might be damned who believed not The Truth,

but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12).

This, then, is included in “The Day Of The LORD” in its broadest sense, for this is
how God will begin to bring the day of man, or “the times of the Gentiles [nations],”
to an end.

Thus, we do not agree that “The Day Of The LORD follows the Tribulation” and that
only HIS Return to earth is “The Day Of The LORD’s Wrath upon those who `know not
God and obey not The Gospel of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.'” God begins to judge man
by giving him up to Antichrist; then comes the “great tribulation,” the latter half of
the seven years, and then our LORD’s Return to bring to a speedy end that which
began as “travail upon a woman with child.”

Thus, The Day Of The LORD, as it is spoken of In Scripture, may be referred to in a
narrow sense, or in a broader sense. In its narrowest sense it refers to the Reign of
CHRIST on earth, but in its broader sense it includes the whole Tribulation period.

As some theologians might put it, we have The Day Of The LORD proper, and The
Day Of The LORD general, the latter including the reign of CHRIST and the Tribulation,
when God begins to intervene in man’s affairs by giving him the Antichrist, the big lie
men have always wanted.

Any who have not acknowledged their sin and have not yet trusted CHRIST as Savior
should remember that while God is GRACIOUS and Patient, He will not allow man to
go on forever rejecting and insulting HIS SON. And when HIS Anger is finally aroused
it will be “the cup of His indignation, poured out without mixture.”

God is not the soft “do-gooder” of man’s conception. True, HE Is The Very Personification
of Love, but He Is Also The Personification of Righteousness and Justice and Truth and,
in Anger against Love spurned, He will finally Judge this world by giving men up to the
kind of christ they have always desired —Antichrist. They will perish “because they
received not the Love of the Truth, that they might be saved” and “for this cause God
shall send them strong delusion,” by removing the restraints that have hindered the
reign of Antichrist.

Since The Rapture of the Church could take place at any moment and bring to a close
This Dispensation of GRACE, how important it is to trust CHRIST without delay, Before
it is Eternally Too Late.

“The Father Loveth The SON and hath given all things into His Hands, He that

believeth on The SON hath everlasting life; and He that believeth not The SON

shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:35,36).”

“…behold, now is the accepted time; behold, Now Is The Day Of Salvation”

(2 Corinthians 6:2).

“Believe on The LORD JESUS CHRIST, and thou shalt be saved…” (Acts 16:31).

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how That CHRIST

died for our sins According to The Scriptures; And That He was buried, and that

He rose again the third day According to The Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3,4).

( Cornelius R Stam - The Day Of The LORD! )
-------------------------------------------
(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship, today?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!

Pilgrimshope · Sep 29, 2021

“Paul, describing the arrival of Day Of The LORDin 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 says
nothing about The Personal Return of CHRIST, but he does describe a protracted
period of suffering and trouble. Read this statement carefully:”

If you read on rather than just what verses fit “ grace”

“For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:2-11, 14-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s telling them to live and act right and hoping that the lord keep them blameless until that day so they aren’t among those who are destroyed when he returns .

Paul’s epistles are designed to be taken in as they are not divided and skipped over and interpreted until they fit our narratives . We’re meant to learn from them as a whole letter that’s all they are letters be sent to exhort the church to repentance and righteous living.

if you read what’s there it would make more sense and you wouldnt have to constantly insist on what it’s really saying it already says everything and is explaining it all so we don’t have to explain the explaination just take it in and let it create our views.

that whole chapter is Paul exhorting and comforting people who understood Jesus will come one day to gather his people and destroy his enemies and thiers with flaming fire.

it’s a repetitive theme In scripture one day Christ will return and gather his people and who’s left will face Gods eternal wrath of fire against sin.

Paul isn’t re creating anything he’s preaching the gospel and in his epistles he touches on points from the gospel

“As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:40-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul Uses different words from Peter and Jesus but they are all preaching the same thkngs

Here’s Peter exhorting the same way paul was doing in his epistle

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9-13‬ ‭

we won’t be overtaken like a thief coming in The night of we repent and start looking in the right direction. We’re meant to get ready and start living like the lord said we need to live so when he comes we will be caught up with him before the fire hits the world

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 29, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

How do you reconcile this ^ with the passage which states [said to the "angels / reapers" at the time being referenced], "gather / collect ye FIRST the TARES..."

DavidTree · Sep 29, 2021

Well you messed up by twisting Scripture out of place so let's have the Word come fix some things.

You said: Paul, describing the arrival of Day Of The LORD in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 says
nothing about The Personal Return of CHRIST, = serious error here

#1 - You left out what Paul said "But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 5: 4-5

#2 - The Apostle Paul said that we should not be ignorant - it's a personal choice but choose wisely 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The Apostle Paul wrote to the Saints at Thessolinica who were in tribulation and persecution unto death.
So, no pre-trib rapture lies from the mouth of the Apostle Paul.

Same Apostle Paul wrote again to the same Saints at Thessolinica to remind them of what precedes the Lord's Coming/Day of the Lord.

2 Thessalonians 2: 1-4
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Go figure - the Apostle Paul said the same thing as the Prophet Daniel and our Lord Jesus Christ - Daniel ch 7 and Matthew 24

So in summary make sure yo follow the word of the LORD and not the spirit of error.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book - Revelation 22 18-19

God is serious - Do not add to or take away from His words

Pilgrimshope · Sep 29, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

there’s nothing to reconcile just read the chapter

there’s only one day when Christ returns he will have his angels with him

this day

“And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

Paul’s only saying that because Jesus had already said it

“As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:40-42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the same day but right before they do that the other group will experience this

“And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s this same day

“Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s this same day

“But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;

so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:37-42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why Paul’s saying be sober and watch because they don’t know the day or hour. Like a thief appears when no one knows he’s coming . He’s doing the same thing Jesus was doing preparing people to be ready and watch because it’s going to come without warning. There will be a day when the world is not ready because they have drifted too far from the gospel and Jesus will suddenly appear with his angels gather his people who are still alive and believing and then he’s going to destroy everything with fire .

it’s just all one day at the end of the world of you want to say rapture your talking about what happens an instant before the fire comes .

Pilgrimshope · Sep 29, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

same day Peter is warning to be ready for by the way

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men….. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter doesn’t say how we get to that new heaven and earth , Paul doesn’t explain we’re looking forward to the new heaven and earth but these apostles and Jesus message are all One message about one day and our hope to be saved if we’re still on earth then in that last generation.

when we realize it’s just one consistent message ll the confusion and arguing goes away. And we hear the message that it’s exhorting us to not “ fall asleep “ and love our lives complacently and lead a life of sin but to get ready because the message has always been maybe tomorrow he’s coming no one knows.

one day though he’s coming so we should live each day as best we can to be ready and not be found naked but wearing the garments Christ gave us

DavidTree · Sep 30, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:
"when we realize it’s just one consistent message ll the confusion and arguing goes away. And we hear the message that it’s exhorting us to not “ fall asleep “ and love our lives complacently and lead a life of sin but to get ready because the message has always been maybe tomorrow he’s coming no one knows.
one day though he’s coming so we should live each day as best we can to be ready and not be found naked but wearing the garments Christ gave us "

This made my spirit leap for joy and also cry -
For Joy because this is the Will of God for us and the beautiful Glory of Brethren dwelling in Harmony.
Cry because of men causing division thru pride, self and religion thus harassing His Bride.

A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
Psalm 133:1

Lanolin · Sep 30, 2021

if people are confused its usually Sunday being the first day of the week and the day Jesus was resurrected. The day after saturday or the sabbath day (seventh day) in which God rested. But I suspect many ppeople have lost track of the calendar, even our years (A. D year of our Lord) seem to be out.

Its 2021 now, but many people seem to think Jesus was born in 4 B.C i.e 4 years BEFORE Christ lol.

DavidTree · Sep 30, 2021

Lanolin said:

if people are confused its usually Sunday being the first day of the week and the day Jesus was resurrected. The day after saturday or the sabbath day (seventh day) in which God rested. But I suspect many ppeople have lost track of the calendar, even our years (A. D year of our Lord) seem to be out.

Its 2021 now, but many people seem to think Jesus was born in 4 B.C i.e 4 years BEFORE Christ lol.

Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

Lanolin · Sep 30, 2021

DavidTree said:

no are you?

Lanolin · Sep 30, 2021

I think the only time in the Bible where people were counting days was at Pentecost.

Lanolin · Sep 30, 2021

FYI it was 50 days from the resurrection in which Jesus sent the Holy Spirit upon the first believers and the church was born. (Or 'reborn')

DavidTree · Sep 30, 2021

Lanolin said:

Nope

Pilgrimshope · Sep 30, 2021

DavidTree said:

We are Brothers …

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and sisters

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:28‬ ‭

“Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭

we are the children of God

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. …And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:36

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

much love to you brother but not nearly as much as the Lord Jesus has for us all who turn to him in peace ❤️❤️❤️

when we come together in his name there is nothing beyond us

Pilgrimshope · Sep 30, 2021

Lanolin said:

This is the church and where the church was born

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

for it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven;

whereof I Paul am made a minister;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:16-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the church is built upon the word and blood of Jesus Christ the body who himself is the church and later includes us into himself when We receive his spirit through faith and perseverance in faith

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 30, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

A few things I would say about this ^ (which I've put in past posts):

1)
[quoting from old post]

How do you believe the above ^ jives with the following passage (addressed TO/FOR/ABOUT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," i.e. all those saved "in this present age [singular]"):

1 Thessalonians 5:6-10 [blb] - [explanation in brackets--note how the SAME Grk words are in vv.6 and 10... same words, same context]

6 So then we should not sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen] as the others,
but we should watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] and we should be sober.

7 For those sleeping, sleep by night; and those becoming drunk, get drunk by night.

8 But we being of the day should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love,
and the helmet, the hope of salvation [an eschatalogical salvation, per context],

9 because God has not destined us for wrath,
but for obtaining salvation through [/by means of] our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 the One having died for us, so that

whether we might watch [same Greek word as in verse 6! G1127 - grēgorōmen]

OR whether we might sleep [same Greek word as in verse 6! G2518 - katheudōmen--NOT meaning 'death' here as the OTHER Greek word does in the previous chpt! 4:13,14,15 (G2837- sleep in DEATH)],

we may live together with [G4862 - syn - UNIONed-with] Him.

[THIS "WITH [G4862]" word being distinct from the OTHER "with [G3326]" word that is used of the "10 [or 5] VirginS [PLURAL]" who will "go in WITH [G3326 - accompanying] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (i.e. the EARTHLY MK age, commencing upon His RETURN to the earth)]

IOW, this passage says, "that WHETHER we might WATCH *OR* WHETHER we might sleep [meaning the same as those words did in verse 6, PER CONTEXT] we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNITED-with] Him" (and as said in relation to the previous part of the sentence/context, as I said);

...which wording (overall) is distinct from that which / the IDEA WHICH IS BEING CONVEYED which we see in the gospels and in the Olivet Discourse.

So this is my question to you, as to how you see this ^ "jiving" with what you have put, [...<snip>...(different convo)...]--when this passage seems to show that WHETHER ["this OR that"]____ , the same outcome is at the end of it, either way. [and note: I do not say the same level of "reward" at the BEMA of Christ

]

[end quoting from old post, with slight modification for clarity for this post]

____________

2) [briefly] Matthew 24:42-51 parallel Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44... "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347; see Matt8:11 and parallel also]... same CONTEXT as the next entry I'll put next:

3) Matt24:36-41 (one taken, the other left... where "took them all away" refers to the ones taken away in judgment--just as in Noah's day) is pretty much parallel with the context surrounding Lk17:27,29 "and destroyed [G622 - cutting off entirely] ALL" [<--this is NOT what takes place following "our Rapture"... which is a different "[sudden] destruction [G3639 - ruination (like in 1Tim6:9 "ruin")] [shall come upon THEM (upon certain ones, per context) exactly like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (Jesus spoke of those[!] ) that comes upon a woman... and they shall NOT ESCAPE (flee out of - ekpheugo - G1628 [same word in Lk21:36--same future time-period--same "actively FLEE OUT OF" (throughout that time period)--different OUTCOME if / because they will heed the instruction of Lk21:36 [IN / DURING the TRIB yrs--NEITHER passage referring to US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY ])--in 1Th5 referring to the CERTAIN ONES that context [1Th5:1-3] was speaking about, but this is at the START of the Trib yrs]);

4) my posts about the parallel language used in both 2Th2:7b-8a [and 2Th1:7-9] that is found in Lam2:3-4...including "IN FLAMING FIRE"... conclusion (in those posts): this is speaking of a TIME PERIOD on the earth during which the "INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON those who..." [same persons and time period as 2Th2:9b,10-12 "God shall SEND TO THEM great delusion SO THAT THEY should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI"] takes place... not merely "a singular 24-hr day" kind of "day"

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 30, 2021

^ [con't] ... I could say much more (but this post is long enough

)... but I will say this:

I agree with you on at least ONE POINT... we should read on into the ENTIRE CONTEXT... and seek to understand it rightly...

... and this involves also making appropriate "connections"... and doing as we are called to do: "correctly apportion the word of truth"

Runningman · Sep 30, 2021

The the rapture and the day of the Lord occur immediately after the tribulation when Christ returns. This is confirmed by matching the signs that will be present when all of this takes place.

Isaiah 13:9-10 KJV
9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6:12-14, 17 KJV
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Pilgrimshope · Sep 30, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

A few things I would say about this ^ (which I've put in past posts):

1)
[quoting from old post]

How do you believe the above ^ jives with the following passage (addressed TO/FOR/ABOUT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," i.e. all those saved "in this present age [singular]"):

1 Thessalonians 5:6-10 [blb] - [explanation in brackets--note how the SAME Grk words are in vv.6 and 10... same words, same context]

6 So then we should not sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen] as the others,
but we should watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] and we should be sober.

7 For those sleeping, sleep by night; and those becoming drunk, get drunk by night.

8 But we being of the day should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love,
and the helmet, the hope of salvation [an eschatalogical salvation, per context],

9 because God has not destined us for wrath,
but for obtaining salvation through [/by means of] our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 the One having died for us, so that

whether we might watch [same Greek word as in verse 6! G1127 - grēgorōmen]

OR whether we might sleep [same Greek word as in verse 6! G2518 - katheudōmen--NOT meaning 'death' here as the OTHER Greek word does in the previous chpt! 4:13,14,15 (G2837- sleep in DEATH)],

we may live together with [G4862 - syn - UNIONed-with] Him.

[THIS "WITH [G4862]" word being distinct from the OTHER "with [G3326]" word that is used of the "10 [or 5] VirginS [PLURAL]" who will "go in WITH [G3326 - accompanying] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (i.e. the EARTHLY MK age, commencing upon His RETURN to the earth)]

IOW, this passage says, "that WHETHER we might WATCH *OR* WHETHER we might sleep [meaning the same as those words did in verse 6, PER CONTEXT] we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNITED-with] Him" (and as said in relation to the previous part of the sentence/context, as I said);

...which wording (overall) is distinct from that which / the IDEA WHICH IS BEING CONVEYED which we see in the gospels and in the Olivet Discourse.

So this is my question to you, as to how you see this ^ "jiving" with what you have put, [...<snip>...(different convo)...]--when this passage seems to show that WHETHER ["this OR that"]____ , the same outcome is at the end of it, either way. [and note: I do not say the same level of "reward" at the BEMA of Christ

]

[end quoting from old post, with slight modification for clarity for this post]

____________

2) [briefly] Matthew 24:42-51 parallel Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44... "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347; see Matt8:11 and parallel also]... same CONTEXT as the next entry I'll put next:

3) Matt24:36-41 (one taken, the other left... where "took them all away" refers to the ones taken away in judgment--just as in Noah's day) is pretty much parallel with the context surrounding Lk17:27,29 "and destroyed [G622 - cutting off entirely] ALL" [<--this is NOT what takes place following "our Rapture"... which is a different "[sudden] destruction [G3639 - ruination (like in 1Tim6:9 "ruin")] [shall come upon THEM (upon certain ones, per context) exactly like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (Jesus spoke of those[!] ) that comes upon a woman... and they shall NOT ESCAPE (flee out of - ekpheugo - G1628 [same word in Lk21:36--same future time-period--same "actively FLEE OUT OF" (throughout that time period)--different OUTCOME if / because they will heed the instruction of Lk21:36 [IN / DURING the TRIB yrs--NEITHER passage referring to US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY ])--in 1Th5 referring to the CERTAIN ONES that context [1Th5:1-3] was speaking about, but this is at the START of the Trib yrs]);

4) my posts about the parallel language used in both 2Th2:7b-8a [and 2Th1:7-9] that is found in Lam2:3-4...including "IN FLAMING FIRE"... conclusion (in those posts): this is speaking of a TIME PERIOD on the earth during which the "INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON those who..." [same persons and time period as 2Th2:9b,10-12 "God shall SEND TO THEM great delusion SO THAT THEY should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI"] takes place... not merely "a singular 24-hr day" kind of "day"

yeah to be honest you always hack the context up and interpret too much so I can’t even understand what you are saying. That’s not an insult or not meant to be an insult I just can’t follow all
Of the hacking and interpreting

my position is as I have stated we should just read and believe the text as it is and not try to make it into what it is not. I think the church as a whole should return to the scripture as it’s written

the order needs to be hearing the gospel forst which all of them preached the one gospel and then the epistles will make perfect sense just by hearing the gospel as it is d then reading ten epistles as they are

if we do that there’s no need to interpret everything because it makes perfect sense. But your free to think and interpret as you will , fundamentally I think is where the conflict comes in. Joseph prince does the same thing he interprets everything until it says what he wants to sell in his next book

I personally believe the gospel is going to say the same thing in the end that it said in the beginning and interpreting it away until it meets our own thinking isn’t wise , but also it doesn’t sell a book when it’s taken as is , it rather saves souls

Great GRACE Departure - WHICH Day?

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