Have You Received the Holy Ghost Since You Believed?

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Scribe

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Since we are on the topic of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and the gifts of the Spirit I wanted to pass on a truth that came to me today while comprehending the context of 1 Corinthians 12 through 14. Chapter 13 is part of the context of 12 and 14 and as you know there were no chapters in the original letter.

Paul is teaching the importance of the gifts of the Spirit for operating in love in the Body of Christ. Did you get what I just said?

We have heard numerous sermons on how meaningless it would be to operate in the gifts of the Spirit without love but very few if any on the importance of operating in the gifts of the Spirit in order to express the Love God intended in the contribution of each member allowing God to use them, or having faith for God to use them in expressing the gifts of the Spirit. This is to be a way to show our love.

If you have received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost you have been given these gifts of the Spirit and so if you love the body of Christ you will step out in faith and let God use you in these gifts for the edification of others because you love them.

It is God's method and you agree with God's method and do not resist because you love other and are willing to go beyond your comfort zone in order to agree with God's method of operating in the gifts of the Spirit to edify the body of Christ and you understand that resisting God's method is not love.

Inventing a doctrine that says you do not have to operate in these gifts of the Spirit because they passed away is really just an excuse to not love your brothers and sisters in the body of Christ and remain selfish.

Something to think about. :unsure:
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Since we are on the topic of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and the gifts of the Spirit I wanted to pass on a truth that came to me today while comprehending the context of 1 Corinthians 12 through 14. Chapter 13 is part of the context of 12 and 14 and as you know there were no chapters in the original letter.

Paul is teaching the importance of the gifts of the Spirit for operating in love in the Body of Christ. Did you get what I just said?

We have heard numerous sermons on how meaningless it would be to operate in the gifts of the Spirit without love but very few if any on the importance of operating in the gifts of the Spirit in order to express the Love God intended in the contribution of each member allowing God to use them, or having faith for God to use them in expressing the gifts of the Spirit. This is to be a way to show our love.

If you have received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost you have been given these gifts of the Spirit and so if you love the body of Christ you will step out in faith and let God use you in these gifts for the edification of others because you love them.

It is God's method and you agree with God's method and do not resist because you love other and are willing to go beyond your comfort zone in order to agree with God's method of operating in the gifts of the Spirit to edify the body of Christ and you understand that resisting God's method is not love.

Inventing a doctrine that says you do not have to operate in these gifts of the Spirit because they passed away is really just an excuse to not love your brothers and sisters in the body of Christ and remain selfish.

Something to think about. :unsure:
Well-said. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
L

lenna

Guest
You make my heart happy. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
felt the same way

you understand better when the Holy Spirit connects you in the same understanding

God bless you and yours
 
Jul 6, 2020
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To believe in Jesus (unto salvation) not only involves believing in who Jesus is and in historical facts about Jesus, but also trusting in Jesus as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The Greek word for believe is "pisteuo" and means to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing) to entrust, (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ).

In regards to love, the love of God has been poured out in the hearts of believers by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) and we receive the Holy Spirit when we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/believe the gospel. (Acts 11:17; Ephesians 1:13) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7)

"Obedience" which "follows" believing unto salvation is "works" and we are not saved by works, but by believing in Christ/placing faith in Christ for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Believing is not about getting up and accomplishing a list of works to save yourself. Also faith is faith and works are works. If you believe in Jesus unto salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you and not in works. This belief will result in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief. Do you believe that man is saved by faith AND WORKS? :unsure:

Salvation begins with believing the gospel. (Romans 1:16) To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) If we endure to the end then we demonstrate that faith was firmly rooted and established from the start and we truly are born of God and have not believed in vain.

This hope is not some uncertain cross your fingers kind of hope. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ then we have this hope. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for.. (Hebrews 11:1) So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

Salvation is past tense with ongoing present results -- we "have been" saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) yet salvation is also future tense -- we "will be" saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification).
There are the works of the law and their are the works of faith.
If you look at the context Paul is is always referring to the works of law. That is in not way rejecting the works of faith by which you are saved and become children of Abraham who was saved by works. not the works of the law but the works of faith AKA loving and obeying God.
Which Jesus says if you love me you will keep my commandments and my father will come to you and we will make our home with you (The receiving of the holy spirit).

Their are always Hyper works people who reject a faith that works and do nothing with the Salvation Christ has provided.
They are like the unfaithful servant, the man who was freely given only one coin and did not put to work what he was given.
Rather he buried it in the dirt for fear his works of faith would be unacceptable. HE know what God required of him yet still he did nothing with it not even putting it in the bank for interest (Christ likeness in himself). Then the master took away what was his and the man was sent to hell as a result because there is no weeping or pain in heaven.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Since we are on the topic of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and the gifts of the Spirit I wanted to pass on a truth that came to me today while comprehending the context of 1 Corinthians 12 through 14. Chapter 13 is part of the context of 12 and 14 and as you know there were no chapters in the original letter.

Paul is teaching the importance of the gifts of the Spirit for operating in love in the Body of Christ. Did you get what I just said?

We have heard numerous sermons on how meaningless it would be to operate in the gifts of the Spirit without love but very few if any on the importance of operating in the gifts of the Spirit in order to express the Love God intended in the contribution of each member allowing God to use them, or having faith for God to use them in expressing the gifts of the Spirit. This is to be a way to show our love.

If you have received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost you have been given these gifts of the Spirit and so if you love the body of Christ you will step out in faith and let God use you in these gifts for the edification of others because you love them.

It is God's method and you agree with God's method and do not resist because you love other and are willing to go beyond your comfort zone in order to agree with God's method of operating in the gifts of the Spirit to edify the body of Christ and you understand that resisting God's method is not love.

Inventing a doctrine that says you do not have to operate in these gifts of the Spirit because they passed away is really just an excuse to not love your brothers and sisters in the body of Christ and remain selfish.

Something to think about. :unsure:
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers; then deeds of power, then gifts of healing, forms of assistance, forms of leadership, various kinds of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:28

Do you still think there are "apostles" among us today?
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers; then deeds of power, then gifts of healing, forms of assistance, forms of leadership, various kinds of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:28

Do you still think there are "apostles" among us today?
Yep. :) as surely as there are pastors and teachers.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Yep. :) as surely as there are pastors and teachers.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
How do you think Paul define an apostle?

If you follow strictly the criteria to be an apostle, you have to witness the resurrected Christ 1 Corinthians 9:1, you have to perform signs and wonders of an apostle 2 Corinthians 12:12, all these will disqualify anyone who claim to be an apostle today.

Since that gift has ceased without being explicitly stated in the Bible, it is not that difficult to conclude that there might be other gifts, in that list 1 Corinthians 12:28, that has also ceased without being explicitly mentioned.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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How do you think Paul define an apostle?

If you follow strictly the criteria to be an apostle, you have to witness the resurrected Christ 1 Corinthians 9:1, you have to perform signs and wonders of an apostle 2 Corinthians 12:12, all these will disqualify anyone who claim to be an apostle today.

Since that gift has ceased without being explicitly stated in the Bible, it is not that difficult to conclude that there might be other gifts, in that list 1 Corinthians 12:28, that has also ceased without being explicitly mentioned.
Paul isn't stating that an apostle has to see the risen Christ. Otherwise you'll have to show where Barnabas had that experience.

I'll stop with that single point because if you extrapolate other ideas based on a flawed starting point who knows where you could end up.

Let's examine that first point first.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Paul isn't stating that an apostle has to see the risen Christ. Otherwise you'll have to show where Barnabas had that experience.

I'll stop with that single point because if you extrapolate other ideas based on a flawed starting point who knows where you could end up.

Let's examine that first point first.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Alright then, I can agree with you that that verse may not be that clear cut.

How about the signs and wonders then?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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How can one be absolutely sure they have received the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
Is your all on the Altar of Sacrifice laid?

Your heart does the Spirit control?

You can only blessed...

can have peace and sweet rest,

When you yield Him your heart and your soul.

====================================================

You can be absolutely sure the very hour you first believe. That is when the Spirit comes in.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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There are the works of the law and their are the works of faith.
When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect works of faith from the law and teach that we are saved by "these" works (works of faith) but just not "those" works (works of the law). In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Now please explain to me which works of faith/good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). *NOWHERE does the Bible teach we are saved by grace through faith "plus works of faith." That is salvation by works no matter how much you try and sugar coat it.

If you look at the context Paul is is always referring to the works of law.
Again, when it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect works of faith/good works from the law. (Matthew 22:37-40) The apostle Paul does not merely limit "works" only to specific works of the law, but includes works in general. In Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, we read that God saved us and called us with a holy calling not according to our works..

That is in not way rejecting the works of faith by which you are saved and become children of Abraham who was saved by works. not the works of the law but the works of faith AKA loving and obeying God.
So you clearly teach salvation by works. Where does the Bible say that man is saved by works of faith? So how much love and obedience does it take?

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. *So much for salvation by works.

Which Jesus says if you love me you will keep my commandments and my father will come to you and we will make our home with you (The receiving of the holy spirit).
You have it backwards. Believers "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments BECAUSE we are saved and have received the Holy Spirit and not in order to become saved and receive the Holy Spirit. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (guard observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. We receive the Holy Spirit when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ/believe the gospel/place faith in Christ alone for salvation. (Acts 11:17; 15:7-9; Ephesians 1:13)

Their are always Hyper works people who reject a faith that works and do nothing with the Salvation Christ has provided.
All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) Those who do nothing/produce no works at all have not been truly converted. Faith without works is dead. (James 2:14-18)

They are like the unfaithful servant, the man who was freely given only one coin and did not put to work what he was given.
Rather he buried it in the dirt for fear his works of faith would be unacceptable. HE know what God required of him yet still he did nothing with it not even putting it in the bank for interest (Christ likeness in himself). Then the master took away what was his and the man was sent to hell as a result because there is no weeping or pain in heaven.
In regards to the parable of the unprofitable servant, the fact that the latter man in this parable is called "wicked" and "lazy" and an "unprofitable" servant (Matthew 25:26-30) who is "cast out into outer darkness," certainly indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degrees. Again, all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) Those who produce no results at all were not truly converted.

The first two servants deposited their talents with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his talent in the ground. (Matthew 25:25) The third servant had been given a talent according to his ability and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but chose to reject it. This man's characterization of the master maligns him as "reaping and gathering what he had no right to claim as his own." This wicked so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer and it's obvious that he had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness.

*The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved. *The children of Israel were called "servants," but they were not all saved.

Leviticus 25:55 - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Nehemiah 1:6 - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned.

Isaiah 43:10 - “You (Israel vs. 1) are My witnesses,” says the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen..
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Alright then, I can agree with you that that verse may not be that clear cut.

How about the signs and wonders then?
Again, not limited to apostles. Plus I don't see a requirement for signs and wonders to be done by apostles.

Honestly I don't think most people even know what an apostle really is.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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I shall post a few paragraphs from a Mr. A.W. Tozer. I hope it is viewed as relevant to this conversation;

“Now lest I be misunderstood and so succeed only in confusing things still further, let me assure my readers that I am and have always been a staunch advocate of theology, and regularly teach doctrine systematically in pursuance of my pastoral calling. I joyfully recognize that there is an outline of divine truth fitted to the human mind and intended by its Author to be received by it. I think no one can become a strong Christian who is not a theologian of some sort, but it is altogether possible to be a theologian and not be a Christian at all. Bible doctrine without love is but a shadow of truth; doctrine held in love is very truth indeed, and we dare not allow ourselves to be satisfied with anything less.”

A. W. Tozer Sermon: Lovingly Embracing Truth
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Plus I don't see a requirement for signs and wonders to be done by apostles.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
2 Corinthians 12:12
12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

You have a different interpretation of this particular verse?
 
L

lenna

Guest
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers; then deeds of power, then gifts of healing, forms of assistance, forms of leadership, various kinds of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:28

Do you still think there are "apostles" among us today?

oh here we go again

do you think the Holy Spirit has changed? or God?

it does not matter what YOU think or anyone thinks. either the Bible states what it does or just toss the thing

some of you do that every time you argue about things you have not experienced so you conclude no one else has either

whatever dude!

whatever :rolleyes:
 
L

lenna

Guest
Alright then, I can agree with you that that verse may not be that clear cut.

How about the signs and wonders then?
you have illustrated you do not know anything about so called 'signs and wonders' so how about that?

you are anti the spiritual gifts, you do not believe in them and take every opportunity to argue about them and ask questions that you have already provided an answer for but want someone to debate with

you have identified yourself as a person who does not believe the gospels, book of Acts, James or the Peters, are for Christians today

therefore, there is very little to discuss with you. your questions are a sham. nothing more
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
2 Corinthians 12:12
12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

You have a different interpretation of this particular verse?
I'm not saying that apostles don't do signs and wonders and mighty deeds. But what I would ask you is "What exactly ARE the signs and wonders that you feel must be done by an apostle?".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
For the Room (readers of this thread) and those who underestimate the importance of speaking in tongues, I will share something that God brought to my attention last night:

In Acts 10 (44-46) when the believing Jews heard those of Cornelius' group start speaking in tongues they didn't see it as proof that they'd received a 'spiritual gift'. They saw it as proof that they had received the HOLY GHOST. :)


Thank you Jesus... the same yesterday, today and forever.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Since we are on the topic of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and the gifts of the Spirit I wanted to pass on a truth that came to me today while comprehending the context of 1 Corinthians 12 through 14. Chapter 13 is part of the context of 12 and 14 and as you know there were no chapters in the original letter.

Paul is teaching the importance of the gifts of the Spirit for operating in love in the Body of Christ. Did you get what I just said?

We have heard numerous sermons on how meaningless it would be to operate in the gifts of the Spirit without love but very few if any on the importance of operating in the gifts of the Spirit in order to express the Love God intended in the contribution of each member allowing God to use them, or having faith for God to use them in expressing the gifts of the Spirit. This is to be a way to show our love.

If you have received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost you have been given these gifts of the Spirit and so if you love the body of Christ you will step out in faith and let God use you in these gifts for the edification of others because you love them.

It is God's method and you agree with God's method and do not resist because you love other and are willing to go beyond your comfort zone in order to agree with God's method of operating in the gifts of the Spirit to edify the body of Christ and you understand that resisting God's method is not love.

Inventing a doctrine that says you do not have to operate in these gifts of the Spirit because they passed away is really just an excuse to not love your brothers and sisters in the body of Christ and remain selfish.

Something to think about. :unsure:
We get gift because we have been anointed with the spirit. It has nothing to do with baptism if the spirit.

I wish people would realize this
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
For the Room (readers of this thread) and those who underestimate the importance of speaking in tongues, I will share something that God brought to my attention last night...

In Acts 10 (44-46) when the believing Jews heard those of Cornelius' group start speaking in tongues they didn't see it as proof that they'd received a 'spiritual gift'. They saw it as proof that they had received the HOLY GHOST. :)

Thank you Jesus... the same yesterday, today and forever.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Yet we are told not everyone is given this gift. So be careful in thinking this is required proof if you do?