How old is our creation really?

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Corban

Active member
Jun 11, 2020
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#22
Awesome guys, nice to read this all. Thank you.



I have studied both, bible and evolution and I found myself to be in a situation like Spike Psarris, if anyone knows who I’m refering to? I saw a video on youtube of him “our created solar system” and I was simply blown away. I may not have agreed with everything he said, but sure he raised serious question and issues that are reasonable for debate.
Yet debate always seems to turn into looking down at the creationist mocking them and creating a scene where another monkeys see and does.

It was quite clear to me many people hanging on the old model refuse to see the flaws.
I am convinced life is created and human beings (as we are now) don’t roam this earth too long. But does that really make our entire creation young?
The world have a big dilemma. If they acknowledge a Creator, then they acknowledge that they are part of the creation. If they are part of the creation they are owned by the creator. If they are owned by their Maker, then they were made for a purpose. If they were made for a purpose they should be seeking instructions. That would mean that they must be obedient, seeing as they the property of the Maker. And there lies the seed of it all. Man hates God, hates His instructions and hates His accusations of our sins. So every effort is made to deny a Creator. To do this they need evolution. But evolution is contrary to our natural, observed and provable laws of nature. Evolution needs TIME. And evolution needs a few very clever men to support it because they actually cannot teach it in schools while teaching the laws of nature as well.
  1. So Creationists are ridiculed as dumb. The argument is that some very clever men support evolution
  2. Evolution needs lots of time. So much time in fact that at the moment, no mutations are observable
So the "Illumined Ones" need billions of years. But their theory fails on three simple and observable laws:
  1. Nothing cannot produce something. The man who discovers how to make something out of nothing will rule the world. It hasn't happened yet. That the Big Bang came out of nothing defies the observable laws of nature. These laws are not only observable but unchanging. Not a thing has changed since Newton defined them. Every time an aircraft takes off, the pilot is banking on the these laws not to change.
  2. Something dead cannot produce life. There is no observable phenomena of water, a rock or sand producing a living organism
  3. Something less intelligent cannot produce something more intelligent. It is observable that man has yet to produce something superior to man. Rather, the evidence is that we are regressing. Engineers today cannot work out how the pyramids were built. They can speculate, but proof ... ? However, Moses knew (Act.7:22).
All natural laws point to a Creator. But when He created this vast universe is not given to men. Modern dating methods have a terrible flaw. They are based on the premise that no catastrophic event occurred to change the formula. How do they know? They weren't around. But consider this;

"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened" (Genesis 7:11). The evolutionist does not recognize the validity of the Bible. But where was he when the seashells were deposited at the top of Everest?
 

Corban

Active member
Jun 11, 2020
532
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#23
Well would it not be boring if there was no creation? That’s the biggest why to it I think. But I’m only human.



Wow Corban! Great answer! Water wiped out evidence, but we still see there were dinosaurs before the flood. A lot of clues are left behind and then it is our nature to discover what went on. But what really went on is being pushed out of sight imho.
Yes. The dinosaurs, especially those in the permafrost of Siberia, are a great proof that (i) the earth is much older than man, and (ii) there was a catastrophic and sudden end like the flood. What they don't tell of course is how long they were around. By the way, if you are really interested in this matter, may I recommend a book. It is probably out of print, but it should be public domain by now, so you might get it online for free. It is "Earth's Earliest Ages" by G. H. Pember. Pember is recognized, even by his detractors, as one the best Victorian scholars of Bible prophesy. If you want a hard copy, try Schoettle Publications at https://www.schoettlepublishing.com/

Go well bro.
 

NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
374
179
43
#24
While the Bible is known to make gigantic leaps in time without specific details. It seems at first sight Abraham was born about 2000 years after Adam. This would show us a young creation according to our Bible.

Yet science had me almost convinced our earth is billions of years old. But knowing they lie and mock anyone raising serious questions I denounced science when it comes to our origins. I was really devoted in my studies but all I found was slander, corruptions, half truths to sell a full lie...

Yet my own mind raised a serious question last night: If our God is infinite, why would He only start creating roughly 6000 to 10000 years ago?

Maybe I should rewatch my beliefs on this and only see human life as a young creation? Any insight in this is very welcomed.
Ever heard of SED physics or zero point energy? Science is cool especially when it points to God.
 

NOV25

Active member
Nov 23, 2019
374
179
43
#25
Yes. The dinosaurs, especially those in the permafrost of Siberia, are a great proof that (i) the earth is much older than man, and (ii) there was a catastrophic and sudden end like the flood. What they don't tell of course is how long they were around. By the way, if you are really interested in this matter, may I recommend a book. It is probably out of print, but it should be public domain by now, so you might get it online for free. It is "Earth's Earliest Ages" by G. H. Pember. Pember is recognized, even by his detractors, as one the best Victorian scholars of Bible prophesy. If you want a hard copy, try Schoettle Publications at https://www.schoettlepublishing.com/

Go well bro.
Apparently they have found soft tissue and blood vessels in dinosaur bones, a process that has been repeated time and time again. Carbon dating of this material claims to be 28,000 years old and some even less than 10,000 years. Interesting rabbit hole if you're into that sort of thing.

 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
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#26
PERSONAL OPINION: Since the "WAS" in Gen 1:2 can also be rendered "Became", there arises a possibility of an unknown amount of time between Gen 1:1, and gen 1:2, and gives rise to "The Gap Theory", which has always been MY working hypothesis about the creation. We MAY be living in the 100th creation that's taken place on this dirt ball. ANd there's some Biblical evidence that there were things going on BEFORE Adam was created (like satan's fall, and WAR in the heavenlies - etc).
I would agree with you. Later in my studies, there seem to be a necessity for "The Gap Theory" You pointed to the most obvious, Lucifer's Fall and the war in Heaven. The casting down of the Devil (Lucifer) and the Angels that followed him.

Scripture teaches the World as we know it, was renewed in SIX literal days. This I except as literal fact. However, the Fall from Heaven must have taken place before this time. Also, in support of the "Gap Theory", you have the following:

1) The Hebrew word translated "created", in Gen.1:1, is BARA' - which generally caries the sense of something created from nothing. However it was used in Gen 1:27, in the creation of man but we are told that God used the dust of the earth to form man. (Gen. 2:7) So man's creation was not from nothing but from something. So BARA' can carry the idea of both, creation from nothing and creation or renovation from something else.

2) The other Hebrew word for "to make, to bring into being or to renovate", is HAYAH - which is always used in the sense of re-creation or renovation. To call forth something from something.

So Gen 1:1 is an indisputable fact. "In the beginning..." The beginning of creation and the beginning of time.

In Gen. 1:2 is the state of the Earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Here, we have a declaration, that is a little troubling. It is difficult to square with this verse of Scripture:

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Surly, God did not create the earth as it is in verse 2. He would have spoke it into existence so it could be used and inhabited. Instead from verses 3 - forward, we see God renovating the Earth back into a useful planet. Surly, God would create nothing that was covered with darkness. Something must have happened here.

Some believe, that the Earth was thrown into a useless state subsequent to the Fall of the warring Angels and the Devil being cast down. That he was cast down to the Earth and God cursed the original creation because of sin. Therefore, the Earth had to be renovated for man's inhabitation and the whole time this was going on, that ole' Serpent, was looking on to see what God was doing in his backyard. The renovation of Earth took only 6 days and God rested on the 7th.

Man has been on the Earth for around six-thousand years, as traced through the Genealogy from Adam to now. But if the "Gap Theory" is a correct view, how old is the Earth and the Universe? God only knows.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
2,124
703
113
#27
I would agree with you. Later in my studies, there seem to be a necessity for "The Gap Theory" You pointed to the most obvious, Lucifer's Fall and the war in Heaven. The casting down of the Devil (Lucifer) and the Angels that followed him.

Scripture teaches the World as we know it, was renewed in SIX literal days. This I except as literal fact. However, the Fall from Heaven must have taken place before this time. Also, in support of the "Gap Theory", you have the following:

1) The Hebrew word translated "created", in Gen.1:1, is BARA' - which generally caries the sense of something created from nothing. However it was used in Gen 1:27, in the creation of man but we are told that God used the dust of the earth to form man. (Gen. 2:7) So man's creation was not from nothing but from something. So BARA' can carry the idea of both, creation from nothing and creation or renovation from something else.

2) The other Hebrew word for "to make, to bring into being or to renovate", is HAYAH - which is always used in the sense of re-creation or renovation. To call forth something from something.

So Gen 1:1 is an indisputable fact. "In the beginning..." The beginning of creation and the beginning of time.

In Gen. 1:2 is the state of the Earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Here, we have a declaration, that is a little troubling. It is difficult to square with this verse of Scripture:

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Surly, God did not create the earth as it is in verse 2. He would have spoke it into existence so it could be used and inhabited. Instead from verses 3 - forward, we see God renovating the Earth back into a useful planet. Surly, God would create nothing that was covered with darkness. Something must have happened here.

Some believe, that the Earth was thrown into a useless state subsequent to the Fall of the warring Angels and the Devil being cast down. That he was cast down to the Earth and God cursed the original creation because of sin. Therefore, the Earth had to be renovated for man's inhabitation and the whole time this was going on, that ole' Serpent, was looking on to see what God was doing in his backyard. The renovation of Earth took only 6 days and God rested on the 7th.

Man has been on the Earth for around six-thousand years, as traced through the Genealogy from Adam to now. But if the "Gap Theory" is a correct view, how old is the Earth and the Universe? God only knows.
(Ocean Sediment Deposits)?

The earth's deposited sea sediments point to a (Young Earth)

If the earth was old (Millions) of years, you would see greater sediment deposits than exist today?

(Ocean Salinity)?

If the earth was millions of years old, the ocean Salinity would be much higher, along with natural erosion?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,995
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#28
I agree, sorta like scientific circular reasoning :giggle:
Circular reasoning is exactly what it is, and there isn't anything "scientific" about it, sadly.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,995
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#29
Yes. The dinosaurs, especially those in the permafrost of Siberia, are a great proof that (i) the earth is much older than man.
How, exactly?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
2,124
703
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#30
Circular reasoning is exactly what it is, and there isn't anything "scientific" about it, sadly.
Agree

The earth's age and evolution in the political liberal sense are tied together, removing God creator.

I researched man's claims in evolution, as Piltdown Man and Nebraska Man were fabricated hoaxes, put in public school textbooks, museum figures etc

Wikipedia: Piltdown Man was a paleoanthropological fraud in which bone fragments were presented as the fossilised remains of a previously unknown early human. Although there were doubts about its authenticity virtually from the beginning, the remains were still broadly accepted for many years, and the falsity of the hoax was only definitively demonstrated in 1953. An extensive scientific review in 2016 established that amateur archaeologist Charles Dawson was its likely perpetrator.[1]

In 1912, Charles Dawson claimed that he had discovered the "missing link" between ape and man. In February 1912, Dawson contacted Arthur Smith Woodward, Keeper of Geology at the Natural History Museum, stating he had found a section of a human-like skull in Pleistocene gravel beds near Piltdown, East Sussex.[2] That summer, Dawson and Smith Woodward purportedly discovered more bones and artifacts at the site, which they connected to the same individual. These finds included a jawbone, more skull fragments, a set of teeth, and primitive tools.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
2,124
703
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#31
Yes. The dinosaurs, especially those in the permafrost of Siberia, are a great proof that (i) the earth is much older than man
The Bible Teaches Man (Job) Walked With Dinosaurs, Just One Example (Behemoth/Brontosaurus)

God Made The Beast Of Earth And Man On The 6th Day, I Believe Your Claim Is Unfounded.

How does the permafrost support your claim of the earths age to man?

Job 40:15-24KJV
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Genesis 1:24-31KJV
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,494
5,485
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#32
If our God is infinite, why would He only start creating roughly 6000 to 10000 years ago?
The answer is quite simple. God's thoughts are not your thoughts, neither His ways your ways.

BTW Adam was created 6,062 years ago (after correcting for Ptolemy's chronology). The Year of Man (Anno Hominis or AH) began on that day (the 6th day of creation).
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
2,124
703
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#33
The answer is quite simple. God's thoughts are not your thoughts, neither His ways your ways.

BTW Adam was created 6,062 years ago (after correcting for Ptolemy's chronology). The Year of Man (Anno Hominis or AH) began on that day (the 6th day of creation).
Are you sure it wasn't 6,061 years ago? :giggle:
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
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#34
(Ocean Sediment Deposits)?

The earth's deposited sea sediments point to a (Young Earth)

If the earth was old (Millions) of years, you would see greater sediment deposits than exist today?

(Ocean Salinity)?

If the earth was millions of years old, the ocean Salinity would be much higher, along with natural erosion?
This concept of a "Gap Theory" is not chiseled in a "Thus saith the Lord". It only attempts to give room to the above mentioned things in the previous post.

But you attempt to use science to answer a Biblical question? That is a very dangerous approach. There is no room for man's science are any concepts of Evolution. For God can make things to be what ever He wants them to be.
 

49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2015
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#35
Regarding the Big Bang Theory, sure it happened. God said, "Bang!" And it happened..... :)
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
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#36
The Bible Teaches Man (Job) Walked With Dinosaurs, Just One Example (Behemoth/Brontosaurus)

God Made The Beast Of Earth And Man On The 6th Day, I Believe Your Claim Is Unfounded.

How does the permafrost support your claim of the earths age to man?

Job 40:15-24KJV
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Genesis 1:24-31KJV
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Nothing I have ever come across would suggest that a behemoth, was a dinosaur. Must ancient and learned men believe this was an Elephant or a Hippopotamus, The Septuagint uses the Greek Word for Elephant.
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
312
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#37
Regarding the Big Bang Theory, sure it happened. God said, "Bang!" And it happened..... :)
Hey did you ever get around to reading "Honoring the True God"?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,995
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#39
Nothing I have ever come across would suggest that a behemoth, was a dinosaur. Must ancient and learned men believe this was an Elephant or a Hippopotamus, The Septuagint uses the Greek Word for Elephant.
"Tail like a cedar" doesn't describe an elephant. :)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
2,124
703
113
#40
Nothing I have ever come across would suggest that a behemoth, was a dinosaur. Must ancient and learned men believe this was an Elephant or a Hippopotamus, The Septuagint uses the Greek Word for Elephant.
He moves his (Tail) like a cedar tree?

Does an Elephant or a Hippo have a tail like a (Cedar Tree)?

1+1=2

(Brontosaurus)


Brontosaurus

Job 40:15-24KJV
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.