Hyper grace

Grace777x70 · Dec 3, 2015

many times the confusion comes in when we think the "fruit" of repentance is repentance.

The word means to change your mind in the original language. The "fruit" of repentance could be going to God and telling Him about the wrong you did...or going to Him to tell Him you believe in Christ blood that washed away your sin.

Jesus said to the Pharisees..show fruit for your repentance...in their cas their "fruit" would be...them saying..I believe you are the Messiah and that you came from God"....they changed their mind concerning the truth.

In Jesus' day someone would say. " I was going to go to the market but I am "metanoeite" ( changing my mind ) and going home. That is the usage of the word in what we call in our religious circles repent.

blondieindahouse said:

james57 · Dec 3, 2015

blondieindahouse said:

Hi
I enjoyed reading destined to reign, I found it personally helped me. But I have also admitted there were a few things in the book I wasn't entirely comfortable with. But the overall message I heartily embrace. I certainly believe the deepest root of which the devil uses to attack the christian is guilt and self condemnation. That for example is in the book. A message of, die to a law of righteousness and you will sin far less-sin shall not be your master, is imho the core of Paul's gospel message of grace. So overall, for me the book was great, but we are all different!
Actually when he stated in the book he refused to take communion in his youth for he had heard sermons that stressed if you take it in an unworthy manner some had become sick or even died, he figured it was better to avoid communion so he wouldn't risk that happening to him.
That is exactly how I used to feel, so I guess it was easy for me to warm to what he wrote having things in common with him before I knew of grace, and the fact his core message means do much to me
God bless

Grace777x70 · Dec 3, 2015

I don't agree with everything Joseph Prince says either...like I don't believe in tithing the way he preaches but I just let it go and get the stuff the Lord is confirming in my spirit.

He is sent to the Body of Christ to teach grace and that is where his anointing is strongest.

I once heard a teaching from a man that said certain people the Lord anoints in specific areas to teach truths to the Body of Christ and when they taught on those subjects it showed! Those truths being taught "came alive" to you while listening to them teach.

This person above was anointed to teach on faith in God and how to trust Him in everyday life. Someone asked him what did he believe about the end times? He said I can tell you what I believe about it but I have no idea if it's true or not. I liked that.

james57 said:

royalscot · Dec 3, 2015

basic teaching bypass repentance. for believing in jesus. history proves it, the apostles, prove it, yet here your still talking about repentance.

feed my sheep. John 2117 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.(do you love me. not, your a sinner that denied me.)

4 And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?"5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do Acts 9

why are you persecuting me, (not, by the way ,your a sinner.)

Ezekiel 34
10 Thus says the Lord GOD, Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require my sheep at their hand and put a stop to their feeding the sheep. No longer shall the shepherds feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them.
(sounds like a temple of stone. ware food could be taken by the jewish priests. etc) history confirms.

the list go s on.

41 "A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.42 When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?"43 Simon answered, "The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt." And he said to him, "You have judged rightly."44 Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.45 You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet.46 You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment.47 Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven---for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little."48 And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."49 Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this, who even forgives sins?"50 And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."Luke 7

this is a jewish house hold, not a gentile house hold. (hitory at this time , would be clear, that no gentile would have been told anything about jesus christ, or even anything about the law of moses. etc)

context must be taken first, to have the correct foundation for them, that claim to be teachers or pastors etc. out of context and you will clearly see, difference. etc. ie if you want to keep returning to law and repentance. then it clear you never understood gods love.

clear distinct difference being made, between jew and gentile.
the gospel is telling about the life nd time of jesus christ.

14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?"Galatians 2

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose

james57 · Dec 3, 2015

Grace777x70 said:

I love the last couple of sentences!

Have you ever wondered why Christ chose Paul to be the main exponent of the Gospel to the world? I know I can only speculate, but I wonder I it wasn't because he was the arch legalist. If anyone was going to attain heaven by trying to be good enough it must have been Paul. I think in many cases those who are most open to grace are those who have previously suffered greatly from legalism/ condemnation from not being able to measure up to a very high standard. Paul certainly suffered from it, so did Spurgeon, wessley and others.
And the average man in the street certainly flocks to hear people like them preach grace.
One minister privately told me he believed once saved always saved, but for obvious reasons he couldn't preach that from the pulpit. I knew why he said that, his reasoning behind it, but in my simplistic view if he believed it was the truth he should be preaching it.
Also, many refuse to forthrightly preach Paul's message incase people view it as a licence to sin. That is tragic, for only the insincere could view it that way. Why make genuine people suffer for the non sincere.
I heard a minister once skim the surface of grace you could say in a sermon. After he finished a woman sitting in front of ne was sobbing her heart out. My firm impression was. What would have happened if the minister had fully and forthrightly preached grace? It may have seemed like another Pentecost!

Grace777x70 · Dec 3, 2015

Well put RoyalScot..it's all about Christ and what He has done for us.

Grace is scandalous! Thank you Jesus for you super abounding grace!!!

royalscot said:

basic teaching bypass repentance. for believing in jesus. history proves it, the apostles, prove it, yet here your still talking about repentance.

feed my sheep. John 2117 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.(do you love me. not, your a sinner that denied me.)

4 And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?"5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do Acts 9

why are you persecuting me, (not, by the way ,your a sinner.)

Ezekiel 34
10 Thus says the Lord GOD, Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require my sheep at their hand and put a stop to their feeding the sheep. No longer shall the shepherds feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them.
(sounds like a temple of stone. ware food could be taken by the jewish priests. etc) history confirms.

the list go s on.

41 "A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.42 When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?"43 Simon answered, "The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt." And he said to him, "You have judged rightly."44 Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair.45 You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet.46 You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment.47 Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven---for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little."48 And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."49 Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this, who even forgives sins?"50 And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."Luke 7

this is a jewish house hold, not a gentile house hold. (hitory at this time , would be clear, that no gentile would have been told anything about jesus christ, or even anything about the law of moses. etc)

context must be taken first, to have the correct foundation for them, that claim to be teachers or pastors etc. out of context and you will clearly see, difference. etc. ie if you want to keep returning to law and repentance. then it clear you never understood gods love.

clear distinct difference being made, between jew and gentile.
the gospel is telling about the life nd time of jesus christ.

14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?"Galatians 2

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose

james57 · Dec 3, 2015

ladylynn said:

For me it was - I sinned because I didn't know God loved me and gave me a way out. James57 gave a good description of how a person can't get out of wrong thinking if they are condemned. I tried to find my own way out and dug a deeper hole. I ran from God just like James57 explained. That scenario can be used for any sin.

The church I was in at the time said you have sinned by getting a divorce, we have stopped loving you the same. It was performance based in every aspect. My worth was about how I looked and what I did. The reason I walked away from the church years ago was because divorce was my identity to people not who I was in Jesus. And for a time that was how I saw myself too because that is how I was taught.

But my worth is not in my past sins and in fact the Bible admonishes us to forget those things which are behind and to PRESS ON to those things which are a head. How can we press on if we are under condemnation and guilt? Sin is not bigger than Jesus. Jesus can do all things in our lives. He has given us a new identity and because of Him our sins are forgiven as far as the east is from the west.

Sin does not have dominion over us any more and we have to walk out that truth in our lives.

I've been told I must spread some reputation around before I can give you anymore reputation-so i guess I better start lol.
So I will just say, great post!
God bless

Grace777x70 · Dec 3, 2015

I agree james. I think God chose Paul because the was the Hebrew of the Hebrews...a Pharisee of the Pharisees...as to the righteous found in the law...blameless! But God chose Paul to reveal His Son in him. No one had the revelation of the finish work of Christ then Paul. All the apostles that knew Jesus in the flesh didn't know hardly anything about the new creation in Christ until Paul started to teach them. You can see them progress in the book of Acts. My goodness the jewish Christians wanted to kill Paul because of what he preached about Christians not being under the law anymore.

Ever wonder why satan wanted Moses body? Michael was dispatched to stop satan from taking it. Can you imagine the shrine satan would have made on top of Moses grave? My goodness people would be making pilgrimages to it constantly. God knew better and hid the body!

james57 said:

Grace777x70 · Dec 3, 2015

I propose that we change our "label" from hyper-grace believers to "super abounding grace" believers. This might stop people from being offended with the term hyper-grace.

What say ye?

james57 · Dec 3, 2015

Grace777x70 said:

Well the two people in this thread who are most considered by others to be guilty of hyper grace are the two people in my view who are showing the most respect, love, and patience to others who are often critical of them, and suggest they are on milk.
In my view if being on milk produces what I am seeing from these people, give me more of it!
God bless

Grace777x70 · Dec 3, 2015

I believe they mean well in their hearts.

It's frustrating to see "things" said and with those words we get "pictures" of what we think they are saying and of course that throws us off for a loop!

Grace is without a doubt scandalous and Paul was heavily persecuted for it by those who didn't understand it.

I know when I first heard about it...I was dead against those "heretics"...how dare they change my understanding of the bible.....the bible says " I am God..I change not!" ( it turned out to be "my" understanding of what I thought and was taught the bible said it meant that needed changing...shhhhh don't tell anyone).....they just want an excuse to sin! They won't admit the sin in their lives! They are not obeying the commandments of Jesus...Hey I was way worst in my thought life toward the "heretics"..believe me...lol

james57 said:

dalconn · Dec 3, 2015

I avoid discussions I can't find in the scriptures.....including hyper-grace

james57 · Dec 3, 2015

Grace777x70 said:

Legalism had all but destroyed me, so when i was asked to read a book at the age of twenty, and there was a chapter in it of Paul's message of grace I immediately- gratefully accepted it, as a drowning man in stormy seas gratefully accepts a life jacket thrown to him. I accepted it for two reasons.
Firstly because I had been brought up to believe in the infallibility of scripture, and secondly, I knew if i didn't accept it I couldn't be a christian, for I knew I could never have a righteousness before God of my own/being good enough. I had already learnt that much
But we all have different experiences. It is wonderful to read of yours, that though you initially resisted the truth, God in his great love for you ensured that resistance crumbled.

Grace777x70 · Dec 3, 2015

it seems that it is hard to find under the name hyper-grace..

the name has been changed to abounded-all-the-more-grace

[SUP]20 [/SUP] The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

It's very exciting stuff the Lord Jesus did for us! He is awesome and mighty to save! Great Love! Great grace! Great mercy!

QUOTE=dalconn;2388419]I avoid discussions I can't find in the scriptures.....including hyper-grace

[/QUOTE]

Grace777x70 · Dec 3, 2015

Resistance is futile.....I was assimilated..

james57 said:

Legalism had all but destroyed me, so when i was asked to read a book at the age of twenty, and there was a chapter in it of Paul's message of grace I immediately- gratefully accepted it, as a drowning man in stormy seas gratefully accepts a life jacket thrown to him. I accepted it for two reasons.
Firstly because I had been brought up to believe in the infallibility of scripture, and secondly, I knew if i didn't accept it I couldn't be a christian, for I knew I could never have a righteousness before God of my own/being good enough. I had already learnt that much
But we all have different experiences. It is wonderful to read of yours, that though you initially resisted the truth, God in his great love for you ensured that resistance crumbled.

ladylynn · Dec 4, 2015

james57 said:

I've been here for a few years now and STILL do not understand this reputation thing. Have to be reminded of it (and you just did) so I can try and remember how to 'spread' some reputation around.
But thank you for the kind words. I do know how to 'like' posts and do a lot of that all the time.

Have very much enjoyed reading from other new covenant believers in this thread. So many Christians are like I was and have no idea there even IS a new covenant of grace to replace the old covenant of law.

ladylynn · Dec 4, 2015

Great commentary on the question of confession of sin..

Our born-again spirits are already eternally redeemed (Heb. 9:12). The other two-thirds, your soul and body, have also been purchased by His blood, but their redemption has not yet taken place. However, God has made provision for this as well.

Romans 8:23 reads,
“And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”
Ephesians 1:14 says,
“Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”
When redemption is complete in spirit, soul, and body, we will know Him as we are known (1 Cor. 13:12). But until then, we can experience a renewed mind through His Word. And although we are waiting for the redemption of our bodies, we can receive healing while we live in our mortal bodies. God has made provision for both the soul and the body even though their redemption has not yet been made manifest.
Unfortunately, most Christians are not taking advantage of these provisions. They have not renewed their minds, and they still don’t understand that we are also redeemed from the curse of the Law (Gal. 3:13). The average New Testament believer is still trying to get God to respond to them based on their performance. Why? Because they don’t know that the performance covenant of the Old Testament Law is over. We are now under the New Testament ministry of grace and faith (2 Cor. 3:7-8).
The Law was given to convict people of their self-righteousness so they could see their need for a savior. Praise God, we are now no longer under the Law. First Timothy 1:9 says that the Law is not made for a righteous man. And who is righteous? Any person who is born again (2 Cor. 5:21).
Hebrews 7:12 and 18 says,
“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.”
What a radical statement! A disannulling! The word disannulling literally means cancellation, to make null and void. The Old Testament Law has been nullified, canceled, done away with. The Law was weak and unprofitable. It was only a stop-gap measure until Jesus (Gal. 3:23-25).
Ephesians 1:3-5 says,
“[He] hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings…hath chosen us…Having predestined us unto the adoption of children” (brackets and emphasis mine).
In the Greek, “hath” is an aortas tense, which means it is a done deal—it’s an accomplished fact. So how blessed is all spiritual blessings? Verse 6 says that we have been accepted in the beloved. Really, that is a super understatement. The Greek word that is used for “accepted” is only used twice in the New Testament. The other place is in Luke 1 where the the Angel Gabriel appeared unto Mary.
Gabriel said, “Hail thou that are highly favoured, the Lord is with thee” (verse 28).
The Greek word for “highly favoured” is the only other time that this word was used. When it says that we are accepted in the beloved, it is saying He has made us highly favored. Mary hasn’t got anything on a born-again believer. Every one of us is accepted, chosen, and highly favored. It’s all part of redemption.
Understanding redemption, the complete forgiveness of your sins, is foundational to understanding the New Covenant and how God deals with you today. If you’re born again and still asking questions like these: “Can I lose my salvation?” “If I die with unconfessed sin, will I go to heaven?” or “Does God answer the prayers of someone who still sins?” then you do not understand redemption.
Redemption is very practical, and your understanding of it will determine what you are able to receive from God, not just in eternity, but here and now.

more to come.........................

ladylynn · Dec 4, 2015

more....

Sin is no longer an issue with God; we are redeemed! With that statement, you are either rejoicing, shocked, or confused. That is one radical statement, but one I believe I can back up by the Word of God.
The message most people hear says that sin breaks your relationship or fellowship with God. The strictest message says that you lose your salvation (“backslide”) every time you sin, until it’s confessed. Others believe your eternal salvation is still secure, but you lose fellowship, can’t get your prayers answered, or can’t be used of God if you sin. That’s not good news, since all of us sin (Rom. 3:23 and 1 John 1:8).
Christians usually cope by trying to keep every sin confessed. Let me just put this bluntly: That’s impossible! The Bible says that whatever is not of faith is sin (Rom. 14:23). Do we always walk in faith? James 4:17 reveals that sin isn’t only doing things that are wrong, but it’s not doing what we know is right. Would any claim they are loving God and others as they know they should?
By these definitions, we all sin through the weakness of our flesh. It’s impossible to keep every sin confessed. Even if it were possible, that puts the burden of salvation on our backs. There wouldn’t be any peace or rest in our relationship with the Lord if that’s the way it worked (Rom. 5:1).
Most people, including Christians, see the forgiveness of sins as something that God can do, and continues to do, but not as something He has completed. From that comes the false concept that we must constantly confess our sins, which makes and keeps us sin conscious.
The New Testament presents the forgiveness of sins as something that is already accomplished and that the effect of this redemption is that we are not even to be conscious of sin (Heb. 10:1-2).
Ask yourself, what produced the forgiveness of sins and when did that happen? Jesus was the Lamb of God that took away the sins of the world (John 1:29). It was through the shedding of Jesus’ blood that you received redemption, which is the forgiveness of your sins (Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14).`
When did Jesus die and shed His blood for our sins? About 2,000 years ago. He will never die again (Rom. 6:9-10). He dealt with the sins of the whole human race once, for all time (Heb. 9:25-28 and 10:10-14). Jesus’ sacrifice for our sins is already an accomplished work.
We don’t have to ask Jesus to forgive our sins; He’s already done it. Paul didn’t tell the Philippian jailor to ask Jesus to forgive him; Paul told him to believe on what Jesus had already done and he would be saved (Acts 16:31). We confess the Lord Jesus, not our sins, to receive this gift of salvation (Rom. 10:9).
Does that mean everyone in the whole world is saved? Certainly not. We have to receive forgiveness by faith (Acts 26:18). The Lord has already forgiven everyone’s sins (1 John 2:2). That’s grace. But we have to put faith in what God has already accomplished by grace to be saved (Eph. 2:8).
Therefore, it’s not a person’s many sins that sends them to hell; sin has already been paid for and forgiven. It’s the singular sin of not believing on Jesus that sends a person to hell. It’s their failure to accept what Jesus did for them that puts them into that place of eternal torment.
John 16:8-9 says,
“And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me.”
The singular sin the Holy Spirit reproves us of is the sin of not believing on Jesus. That’s it. That’s not to say that the Holy Spirit will not show us that things we do are wrong. But He uses them to illustrate that we don’t believe on Jesus. The Holy Spirit isn’t nailing us every time we sin; He loves us back into faith and trust in Jesus. That’s the whole issue with God.
What difference does it make in our lives if we accept forgiveness as something that has already been accomplished or not? There is a huge difference! It gives us security and peace, knowing that God isn’t mad at us and won’t be mad at us. Our sins are already forgiven—and not just the past sins we committed before we were born again. All of our sins—past, present, and even future ones—are already forgiven.
Someone will say, “How can God forgive our sins before we commit them?” Well, you better pray that He can do that, because Jesus only died for our sins once; 2,000 years ago; before you committed any sin. If He can’t forgive sins before you commit them, then you can’t be saved.
It says in Hebrews 10:10-12 and 14,
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” (emphasis mine).
We have received eternal, not momentary, redemption (Heb. 9:12). One sacrifice was made for all sin forever, and we have been perfected forever. How can we read these scriptures and come to any other conclusion than that every sin—past, present, and future—was forgiven and our redemption is eternal?
If you have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus for your sins by faith, then your spirit is perfect (Heb. 12:23)! Your spirit has been born again. A million years from now, your spirit will be identical to what it is right now, and it is identical to Jesus (1 Cor. 6:17 and 1 John 4:17). One-third of your redemption is complete.
So, am I making light of sin or saying sin doesn’t matter? No! Sin is a terrible thing, and it’s an inroad for Satan into your life (Rom. 6:16). I hate sin! I live a holier life than most of you reading this. I just value the blood and the atonement of Jesus above sin. His sacrifice was infinitely greater than all the past, present, and future transgressions of the entire human race. Jesus overpaid the debt we owed.

Bible Commentary

PeterJens · Dec 4, 2015

ladylynn said:

This is just simply a distortion of the life.
The Lord wants us to walk in righteousness and love. Sin is the failure that stops this walk. In christians lives it should be in the background, and the walk is something that is deepening. Without dealing with sin at the start, setting ones heart in communion with the Lord, the walk is not possible. One cannot sin and claim you are walking as the Lord intends.

The Lords prayer

Our Father in heaven, hallowed by your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven,
give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our sins and we forgive others who sin against us, lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil

Core to this prayer is forgiving our sins because we forgive others against us. This is asking Jesus or the Father to forgive us.

So the core thesis that sin is not an issue for all our lives or that forgiveness is not part of who we are, misses the gospel.

However these conclusions are drawn, whatever the excuses or construction they are wrong because they contradict scripture and who we are. Junking guilt, conning ourselves we walk aright while staying in sin is just self deception. Either we are conquerers or we have not found the Lord yet as he promises. Most of us are still searching and living with failure but walking in faith.

oldthennew · Dec 4, 2015

PRO.28:13. - He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1JOHN1:9. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1JOHN2:1. - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous:

to deny Jesus Christ's position in interceding for us to the Father, is to deny His sacrifice, suffering and blood...

Hyper grace

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