Is God giving America up?

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Jan 21, 2021

Daniel chapter 8

[1] In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
[2] And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
[3] Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
[4] I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
[5] And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
[6] And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had there seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
[7] And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
[8] Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
[9] And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
[10] And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
[11] Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
[12] And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
[13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
[14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
[15] And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
[16] And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
[17] So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
[18] Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
[19] And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
[20] The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

Just as I said, in the book of Daniel, we see a ram with two horns, and, according to the angel Gabriel's interpretation, these "two horns are the kings of Media and Persia".
oh, whoops, erm, I was talking about the beasts that made up the partial golden statue. The second beast in Revelation is a slightly different deal, no? The first beast had the crowns on the horns, but the second one didn't. I think the horns are either political parties or the separation of Church and State.


Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
depends on interpretation. Hundreds of years ago there were no such things as separate nations, people lived in Kingdoms or feudally and they didnt carve up land in straight lines the way its done now.

Look on any map and see the USA and Africa are all divided into squares which doesnt actually reflect the real boundaries of the people that live there.

In dont know if in the USA which is made up of 50 states, whether within each 'state' they separate out the church or not. (I dont live there, but I supoose the difference is marked by the amount of churches in each state?)

Empires are when one ruler controls an entire area, or over rules it. There have been many empires over the centuries, some long lived others really short. Most people like to be autonomous but they will submit to rulers if it benefits them.
Jan 12, 2019
Matthew 25:31-46 is about the coming unstoppable and unavoidable judgement that Jesus Christ will execute upon everyone alive at the time of His return and those who are resurrected from the dead. This judgement will apply to everyone regardless of their belief system. More people will be unprepared for this day than there are those who are prepared.

These verses have absolutely nothing to do with gentiles supporting Israel to obtain a works-based salvation. That's wildly unbiblical and I have no idea why you would suggest that.
I am just understanding that passage literally, but I do understand people always spiritualize that passage to fit their "there is only one gospel" doctrine.

21 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

When scripture mentioned "nations", it is always a reference to gentiles, not Jews

Take note of what Jesus said to the gentiles, both sheeps and goats, when they asked him the question

Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

The answer Jesus gave, to both groups, was

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Jesus brothers, the Jews, will be persecuted by the Antichrist during the Tribulation, so it becomes the responsibility of gentiles to help them if they want to be saved. As James would say in his famous chapter 2, "faith without works" is dead.

And the conclusion was

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Jan 12, 2019
Paul did say gentiles would be cut off, as in it will be a reality.

I think you make stuff up.
As I said, the reality of that happening will be after the Body of Christ is raptured to heaven, before the 70th week.

We just have different interpretations of scripture.


Senior Member
May 24, 2014
Is God giving America up?

God saves sinners. It matters not what color they are or where they are born. Not even being a Jew gives one an advantage or disadvantage since Jesus instituted the New and better Way. Nationalism and the pride that comes with it must be left behind when one becomes a member of the Kingdom. No divided allegiance is acceptable for the man or women or child of God.

1 Corinthians
12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


As I said, the reality of that happening will be after the Body of Christ is raptured to heaven, before the 70th week.

We just have different interpretations of scripture.
We have more than that my friend, much more,


Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
Why is a lamb mentioned with the the second beast? A lamb sure sounds like a Christian Nation to me.
Hello @pittsburghjoe,

I think this is the scripture you are referring to....:unsure:

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Revelation 13:11 - 13:11&version=KJV

The first beast is the anti-christ indwelling a human, the second beast is a false prophet, both are given power from the dragon which is Satan.

The false prophet is “”LIKE” a lamb with two horns - in some form of religious leadership with both Jew and Gentile (the two horns).

Those that are “IN CHRIST” will NOT follow the false prophet even though he comes as a lamb because he’ll blaspheme.....he speaks as a dragon.


Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
Pastor Phelps spoke of this years ago. Very few listened. Now, it's there.


Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
The question should rather be . . .

Is . . . America giving God up ( ? )
Not only America. Is there any truth spoken on earth today? Massive apostasy and damnable heresies abound. Let alone to mention this "christian zionist" "israel first" delusion that so many american christians take in as being "truth".


Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
In order to express who God is(Holiness, Truth, Love, and Justice), He must punish sin. As Christians living in America today, we should not be surprised that the sins spewing out of this country makes God angry.
Sins have always spewed from America.
- Slavery
- the careless and reckless slaughter of the buffalo to hurt the indian
- the abusive exploit of child labor
- a disregard for safe work practices.
- hatred, lynching, the KKK
- Dilinger, Al Capone, and other gansters

Today the sins that spew might be different, but are they any worse? I don't think so.


Active member
Mar 17, 2020
2 Chronicles 7:14

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face
And turn from their wicked ways
I will hear from heaven
And will forgive THEIR sins
And I will heal their land


Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
This is what has come to my mind: It seems that the devil is very interested to attack the US. I guess it would have to do with that the US as it sprang forth could have been a haven for true christians around the world and that, indeed, the blessings that the US has gotten has come from the warm Spirit-filled and ever praying christians.

One early attack on this freedom-loving nation was the setup of masonic lodges and it's negative influence. Perhaps many of the cults that have began in US can be traced to masonic activity. So the US has given the world some great preachers but also, sadly, false prophets.

I am not an american myself. I have visited the US a number of times and I have relatives there, but I have at no time held residency, Green Card or citizenship of the US. These are my impressions as a "stranger".


The problem with the US. (America is a continent) is we have become a covetous nation, greed has overcome us, and the love of others in us has grown cold unless something major happens (like a natural disaster) when we return to our roots for a minute,

God has said what will happen to a covetous people. A people who are selfish and unloving, and we are witnessing this, it’s not that God is punishing us, he does not have to, we are destroying ourselves. We have lost our way, money is our God,


Well-known member
Mar 17, 2021
In order to express who God is(Holiness, Truth, Love, and Justice), He must punish sin. As Christians living in America today, we should not be surprised that the sins spewing out of this country makes God angry. To deny how angry it makes Him, is to deny the necessity of Christ's work on the cross for the sins of humanity. God's wrath toward the sins of America is being revealed to the entire world. In the book of Romans, the first chapter, we can see how our Lord "gives up" a nation who continually lives in sin and does not repent. This wrath that is vented toward the unrepented sins of America is not of eternal judgement, nor is it the wrath of the great tribulation. Its the wrath of the present revelation of God's righteousness. America has "held the truth in unrighteousness." This means, America has received the truth of God's Word, but has yielded to unrighteousness. Is God giving America up?

Romans 1:17 "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: As it is written, the just shall live by faith." Righteousness is God's essential attribute. To those who practice God's righteousness Paul says, "The just shall live by faith." We as a nation should remember that God is our source of provision and that everything we have or ever will have is ultimately from Him.

Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness." 1. "ungodliness", is the failure of spiritual discernment. 2. "unrighteousness", is the failure of the moral lives of people and how they treat each other. America has failed in both of these.

America has "held the truth", in God's word, but now the wrath of God is being revealed. Its not eternal wrath because that would be final judgement into the lake of fire. Satan and his followers have deceived so many, not only in this country but the entire world. America has abandoned the truth for so long now that it seems as though God is turning the country over to its sinful desires.

"God gave them up" No one will be able to stand before God and have an excuse as to why they didn't believe. Everyone is accountable to Him. In Romans 1:24-32, Paul tells us three times that "God gave them up." When a nation has been given ample amounts of evidence of God and His nature, He then expresses His wrath and justification by allowing those to be consumed with the desire to sin, having a "reprobate mind".

Romans 1:21 "when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened." It seems with each year that passes by, America is acknowledging God less and dishonoring Him more. This nation's heart has become dark, that it cannot reason correctly or give thanks to almighty God.

Romans 1:26-27 "for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Also the men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due." These behaviors and many more are exactly what we see in our country today. Its the opposite of the natural harmony of God's moral laws. America has abandoned self-control, is driven by lust, and participates in sexually impure acts.

Significant dates attributed to God's wrath:
1963..........The Supreme Court ruled that Bible readings and prayer in public schools were unconstitutional.
1965..........Immigration and Nationality Act permitted more Muslim, Buddhist, and Hindu immigrants into the U.S. changing the religious landscape of the country.
1971..........Sojourners magazine was founded, which promoted a greater prominence of liberal Christian views.
1973..........Supreme Court ruled to legalize abortion.
1980..........Marjorie Matthews was elected first female Bishop of any mainline Christian Church and pioneered the 80's for future women pastors.
1988..........biological fathers had no right to stop the pregnant mother from murdering his child.
1990's.........religious nonaffiliation in America started rising.
2015..........legalized same sex marriage
2016..........state and private institutions had to allow transgender students to use restrooms according to their gender identity.

Ephesians 5:6-7 "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. But not ye therefore partakers with them." We became targets the day we believed and accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. There will be constant temptations and solicitations to evil, therefore believers must always be proving or discerning WHAT IS and WHAT IS NOT acceptable to the Lord.

Final thoughts
America is the greatest country in the world. Examining America more closely in areas such as Technology, Biology, Agriculture, etc., it can be argued that the United States is still the best in the world. The attributes that contributed to God's wrath and "giving America up", is far more than the events that happened on specific dates. It seems as though God has allowed America "free reign" expressing sin unchecked, which results in the natural system of cause and effect. America, it would appear, has been portrayed as a nation who has progressively been pushing God further and further away. God has been expressing His wrath by allowing this nation the things it wants and condemning those to suffer the painful consequences that came with it. Because America hasn't given the honor God deserves, He has let America do what it wants, to dishonor itself and being "given up" to those sinful desires.
Thats not only with America, its with the whole World.


Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
well the news is that the americas cup is gonna stay in nz. Cos nz won.
although american people were like we dont want auckland to host even though the rule is if your country wins the cup you get to host the defence

americans always seem to want to change the rules of their own game to suit them of course. This strange trait of really bad sportsmanship seems to permeate everything they do.

hosting a game though, I can understand why you wouldnt not really want to because its a huge expense to do so. But what I cant understand is why americans are such sore losers if they do not win. Its just a game. You had fun...that is the main object of playing a game.

anyhow that is about the only thing I think about americans at this point of time. If this kind of behaviour happens all the time in the sports people reperesenting their doesnt really bode well for any others. This is why a lot of countries do NOT want to play any sports with americans.
May 28, 2020
Louisville, Ky
(continued from my last post)

Although there are other descriptors given to us of this “another beast” in the book of Revelation, I’m addressing its inception at the moment, so let’s do a quick review of what we know in relation to the same.

1. This “another beast” (Rev. 13:11) is another kingdom.
2. This “another beast” or another kingdom appears chronologically AFTER “the first beast before him” (Rev. 13:12) or after the Papacy.
3. This “another beast” or another kingdom has “two horns” (Rev. 13:11) or is a composite of two kingdoms.
4. This “another beast” or another kingdom is depicted as “a lamb” (Rev. 13:11), which is A YOUNG SHEEP, so it is representative of a kingdom in its infancy.
5. This “another beast” or another kingdom is, once again, depicted as having “two horns like a lamb” (Rev. 13:11), and everywhere in the book of Revelation a “lamb” is representative of Jesus Christ. Therefore, this another kingdom, in its infancy, is comprised of two kingdoms which profess to be CHRISTIAN in nature.
6. This “another beast” or another kingdom, although it “had two horns like a lamb” or although it professed to be a composite of two CHRISTIAN nations, actually “spoke as a dragon” (Rev. 13:11) or was SATANIC in nature.

Whether you want to accept it or not, this “another beast” or another kingdom is none other than the USA in which many of us here live.

It truly is a kingdom which arrived on the scene, in its infancy, after the Papacy, and it truly is a composite of two nations, England and America, which both profess to be Christian in nature, but are actually Satanic in nature.

In fact, we’ve got a whole region in the USA that is known as “NEW ENGLAND”.

Furthermore, states such as NEW Hampshire (which is part of New England)…

…NEW York…

…and NEW Jersey…

…were all named after places in ENGLAND.

Further still, there are many today who claim that the USA has been under control of the British Crown since 1871.

If you’re not familiar with such claims, then the following website does a pretty good job of explaining the same:

Whether or not the USA truly is still under the control of England, it is NOT, in accordance with THE CHRISTIAN GOD’S WORD, a “Christian nation”, nor has it ever truly been.

That’s reality, and if you’re a professing Christian who believes otherwise, then, I’ll tell you plainly, YOU ARE GREATLY DECEIVED!

Let’s shift our focus from God to the actual words and works of our founding fathers.

Were our founding fathers Christians?

The correct answer to this question is a resounding “NO!”.

At best, they were Deists, and NOT Christians.

If you don’t know what deism is, then this brief definition should help:



Belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

Don’t miss the “intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries” part because that is precisely the timeframe in which the USA was founded.

Also, don’t miss the part about how deists “reject belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind” because this perfectly describes several of our founding fathers.

For example, Thomas Jefferson, one of the signers of “The Declaration of Independence”, wrote his own Bible…a Bible that denied the deity of Christ, and a Bible that removed all supernatural occurrences:

If you’d like to know what our founding fathers truly believed in relation to Christ/Christianity, then I would highly recommend the following documentary, “The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers”, which details their actual beliefs from their own writings and the writings of those who knew them personally:

If you don’t want to take the time to deprogram yourselves from that which you’ve more than likely been brainwashed into believing by watching this 3-hour documentary, then, hopefully, you can at least take a moment to look at “The Great Seal” that our founding fathers designed which currently is printed on the back of a “One Dollar” bill.

Looking at the same, we see an unfinished pyramid, with its capstone not yet in place, with the Roman numerals “MDCCLXXVI”, which translate into “1776”, the time of this nation’s inception, at its base.

Inside of the capstone we see an eye, which, according to the official narrative, is representative of “the eye of Providence”:

Our founding fathers hated the Christian God so much that they deliberately used words like “Providence” while describing their “god”.

Encircling the pyramid and its capstone which is not yet set in place, we see the Latin words “ANNUIT COEPTIS NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM”, which translate into English as “He has approved of our undertakings: A New Order for the Ages” or, what many call it today, “A New World Order”.

For those of us who live in America, our forefathers have told us, albeit in a cryptic manner, precisely what their true desires were from this nation’s inception way back in 1776:


That’s reality…whether you like it or not.

In fact, if you watch the following video entitled “New World Order Quote Compilation”, then you will both see and hear many of our nation’s leaders, some past and some present, both Republicans and Democrats alike, plainly tell you that a “New World Order” is precisely what they are after…just as our forefathers were.

Better (worse?) still, if you simply skip to the 7:27 mark of the video, then you will see and hear Nancy Pelosi say the following, and I quote:

“As I’ve told you before, because I love it so much, they also created ‘The Great Seal of the United States’. And that ‘Great Seal of the United States’ has on it ‘Novus Ordo Seclorum’…a ‘New Order for the Centuries…for the Ages…Forever’.”

This is what Nancy Pelosi LOVES SO MUCH, and she’s not alone.

Although our founding fathers and present-day politicians would have us to believe that God is the one who “approves of such undertakings”, the Bible tells a completely different story.

For starters, in scripture, Jesus Christ, the epitome of humility, is symbolized as “the chief cornerstone” (Psa. 118:22, Isa. 28:16, Matt. 21:42, Mark 12:10, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11, Eph. 2:20, I Pet. 2:6-7), or as the one upon whom all things are built, and NOT as the capstone.

Furthermore, God’s desire has NEVER been “A New World Order”, but rather a “new heavens”, a “new earth”, and, ultimately, a “new Jerusalem” which will all be set in place after Christ’s coming Millennial Reign.

Well, if Jesus Christ isn’t the capstone of this “New Order for the Ages” or “New World Order”, then who is?

The antichrist.

That’s who.

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.
Thank you for your extensive input on here. I'm hoping you copied and pasted, otherwise it would have taken a while to put all this together!--I plan on looking at and studying all this later on as I sleep days for now.


Well-known member
May 23, 2012
And He in all His glory AND wrath is coming very soon--I for one can not wait!!!


I am glad that I am not subject to wrath. The message today should become to Jesus or come back to Jesus. There very well may be a great war before the wrath of God is even poured out. I assure you Christians will not be exempt from that.

WE must continue to pray for our families and our nation.