Is it a sin to drink alcohol

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,591
7,373
113
In this matter of making wine. Is not the fermentation process a process of rotting?
Already soundly refuted, way back in the early history of this thread.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,203
2,179
113
Already soundly refuted, way back in the early history of this thread.
You are saying that fermentation is not a process of rotting? Or is it just because I said it? It is just basic science.
A perfect jack... perhaps.
You just cannot be kind. You are simply not behaving well in public. Your mother would be ashamed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,256
638
113
You are saying that fermentation is not a process of rotting? Or is it just because I said it? It is just basic science.

You just cannot be kind. You are simply not behaving well in public. Your mother would be ashamed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I don't think the process of fermentation is considered "rotting". It may just be semantics, but fermentation is a known process that can be started "manually", or it will (I think) happen naturally, if there are "wild yeasts" present.

"rotting" as we use the word, would not apply...... in my opinion.

edit: just goobered this....

"Rotting" is a general term for substance decomposition, often a mix of physical/chemical/microbial reactions, almost universally uncontrolled by humans. Fermentation is a metabolic microbial process that results in the production of alcohol from converting carbohydrates without available oxygen.
 

azamzimtoti

Well-known member
Apr 3, 2019
1,483
755
113
Ever wonder what is the difference is between fermenting and rotting food?

Short Answer:

Rotting is an uncontrolled act of a food decomposing. Dangerous bacteria take over the food in question, breaking it down to a dangerous and foul state. Rotting kills the food.

Fermenting is just the opposite. Fermentation is a controlled process that creates an environment in which the food is placed (jar, crock…); when done correctly, beneficial bacteria are produced that discourage the growth of harmful bacteria allowing you to eat it well past its usual shelf life.

Is fermented food rotten or spoiled?

No, fermented food is not spoiled food. The process of fermenting food is a method of preservation that raises the population of beneficial bacteria and breaks down the properties of the food so that they remain eatable.

Fermilab
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,087
8,041
113
I don't think the process of fermentation is considered "rotting". It may just be semantics, but fermentation is a known process that can be started "manually", or it will (I think) happen naturally, if there are "wild yeasts" present.

"rotting" as we use the word, would not apply...... in my opinion.

edit: just goobered this....

"Rotting" is a general term for substance decomposition, often a mix of physical/chemical/microbial reactions, almost universally uncontrolled by humans. Fermentation is a metabolic microbial process that results in the production of alcohol from converting carbohydrates without available oxygen.
decomposition in general can either be attributable to the life-processes of microbial organisms or to processes of erosion & other forms of decay not associated with the actions of living creatures.

fermentation in particular describes a thing certain living creatures do, not entropic deterioration.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,591
7,373
113
You are saying that fermentation is not a process of rotting? Or is it just because I said it? It is just basic science.
As I already responded to another user with the relevant information, your self-important attitude is misplaced (as usual).

You just cannot be kind. You are simply not behaving well in public. Your mother would be ashamed.
My mother has a very low tolerance for "stupid"; she'd probably cheer me on. :)
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
580
306
63
It is either according to scripture or it ain't. My 'opinion' doesn't have anything to do with the matter. Isaiah 8:20.

You keep moving goalposts. The matter is not about letting 'alcohol touch ones lips', nor 'tasting', nor pouring it on wounds, etc. The matter is about drinking alcohol.

There are various kinds of sins in scripture, such as Ignorant and Presumptuous, Natural and Unnatural, kind that can be forgiven and the kind that cannot be forgiven, sins of youth and sins of old age, and also sins, transgressions and iniquities, etc.

Sin is specifically identified and defined in 1 John 3:4, which reads:

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.​

Notice the previous context, in verse 3, and the words "purifieth himself". Alcohol does not purify the mind/heart, and neither does it built up the body temple, but assaults it in nearly every front.

Are you asking is taking a 'sip' is worse than 'gossip'? What does scripture say?

All sins separate between us and God:

Isa_59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.​

Sin will also divide man and man.



Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.​
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.​
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.​
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.​
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.​
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.​
Such as it is even now.

Yet:

Psa_120:7 I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war.​
I speak the truth (John 17:17), and they must defend their sin, rather than the truth.

It's real simple. And if any man desires to know of the doctrine of Christ, that one shall know the truth. You can know the tree by its fruit.

Alcohol consumption. Study the tree in the matter of health (lays waste), the economic (drains and nothing gained, but only loss, physical, mental, spiritual, then consider the illegalaties associated with it), the societial (woes), the familial (destructions, divisions, death), the personal (sorrow), the religious (associations of the pagans). The fruit is clearly seen to all but those who refuse to remove the 'beer-goggles' they have chosen to wear.
I suspect you always won at dodgeball!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,087
8,041
113
I suspect you always won at dodgeball!
well, to win you have to have good aim -- not just be good at ducking

avoidance can only get you into the later rounds, it can't grant you the cup ;)
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
580
306
63
well, to win you have to have good aim -- not just be good at ducking

avoidance can only get you into the later rounds, it can't grant you the cup ;)
I suppose my reference can be understood as literal, in this case i was using 1/2 of the game as an analogy, the 1/2 where the op hides behinds his wall of words and deftly eludes facts.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,087
8,041
113
I suppose my reference can be understood as literal, in this case i was using 1/2 of the game as an analogy, the 1/2 where the op hides behinds his wall of words and deftly eludes facts.
it is as he said, the natural precedes the spiritual :D
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,203
2,179
113
As I already responded to another user with the relevant information, your self-important attitude is misplaced (as usual).
You seem to be an expert on the matter. From much practice it would seem.
My mother has a very low tolerance for "stupid"; she'd probably cheer me on. :)
No doubt you were her big little boy. Cheer on momma.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
13,591
7,373
113
You seem to be an expert on the matter. From much practice it would seem.

No doubt you were her big little boy. Cheer on momma.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You make such comments "For the cause of Christ"? Wow.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
645
65
28

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,087
8,041
113
Addressed already (even told you already and linked to it already, see previous response):

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-to-drink-alcohol.191061/page-35#post-4206234
already read days ago and unworthy of response. eisegetical babble doesn't overturn the truth.
((not to mention, addressed on page 1))

repent or perish!

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man;
but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man!
(Matthew 15:11)
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
645
65
28
.... eisegetical babble doesn't overturn the truth.
...

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man;
but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man!
(Matthew 15:11)
The verse in context is speaking about unwashed hands:

Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.​
Mar 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.​
Mar 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.​
Mar 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.​
Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?​

Therefore, this is for you, to continue reading:

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,​
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.​
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.​

The disciples were eating the grain of the field, in the land of Gennesaret.

Mat 14:34 And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret.​
Mar 6:53 And when they had passed over, they came into the land of Gennesaret, and drew to the shore.​

The Pharisees, scribes held the tradition that to deal with things that were touched, or possibly touched by the hands of Gentiles (or unclean animals), were ceremonial unclean, and could make a person as such 'unclean', or 'defiled', as if it were the disease of 'Gentileness' that might be contracted. It was taking that which was written in the OT, when dealing with the pagan and idolatrous nations, and twisting it to such extremes.

The passages in both Matthew and Mark, do not alleviate anyone from the commandments concerning the distinction between the Holy and unholy, the clean and clean in food, drink and diet. Jesus was speaking in terms parable:
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.​
Mat 15:15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.​

You seem to be as Peter, that is to say, without understanding, therefore, listen to Jesus, and you shall understand:

Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?​
Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?​
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.​
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:​
Mat 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.​
Jesus just referred to the body as the Temple of God, when dealing with that which 'defiles'.

Notice, the connection of Heart and Mouth. For out of the heart, the mouth speaks, and when alcohol is involved it alters the heart/mind, so that perverse, false, erroneous material comes out of the heart and out of the mouth (sometimes words, sometimes vomit, and sometimes one is as the other), and by that medium the person is thereby defiled.

You have misused the text. You have not rightly divided the word of God, but seek to justify the sin of alcohol drinking. Therefore, if you do not admit your error here, and repent, openly, as you spake openly, you will drink down another drink yet to be poured unto you. A drink not 'warm', but of a 'fire unquenchable'.

Oba_1:16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.​
Isa_47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.​
Zec_14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.​