IS MAN TOTALLY DEPRAVED?

[garee]

The Calvinistic doctrine of total depravity if understood and applied does imply and lead to the implication that the image of God in us is destroyed. We become no better than a stone that has no free choice or ability to choose God. Man becomes just as helpless and weak and unable to respond as does a rock. But God is able to take a stone and make a child of his, huh?

I don't believe that way . . .

Deprived as in no faith of Christ not little none.

I would suggest that actually as we eat of the daily bread of the will of God we know we have been given the desire to do the will of the Father. Being delivered from the will of the father of lies, the god of this world .

We were not created with no will which some might call a "free will". But a will to eat the proper of food of the Creator, walking by faith .Mankind gave over the will of God not seen to the pleasure of the will of one seen, the serpent, a will in bondage..

Free will would be a will to do the desire of our Father in heaven. Freely he gives, freely we have received our daily bread, strengthening us to work in the field as Jesus says; "they are white already to harvest"

John 4:33-35 King James Version (KJV) Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

"And you were dead in your trespasses and sins"

We were dead because we sinned, not because we were created in the image of God.

Man is BORN spiritually dead, that is why he MUST be born again.

Born once (physically) die twice (physically ad spiritually)
Born TWICE (physically and spiriually by the quickening of the Holy Spirit) die once (physiclaly)

 

[GraceAndTruth]

1PETER 1:16.
Because it is written, Be you Holy; for I Am Holy.

that is, those whom The Father has elected to give The Son...

How about 1 Peter 1:3.....you must have tripped over that verse to get to #16
"God has CAUSED you to be born again"

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Not if they believe in Jesus and put their faith in Him.

So everyone must hear about Jesus because faith comes from hearing the word of God. And if you already know Him you must tell others about Him so they can hear too and become totally saved.

So now tell is how people are saved who have never heard the gospel, by what means are they saved?
It is a long history of how the gospel traveled, and it did not travel fast. Many generations died without hearing it.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The old covenant, like the new covenant did not of itself take away sin..........the covenants give the remedy for sin

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ "... by means of [the] resurrection of Jesus Christ out from [the] dead." (we shouldn't fail to include the rest of the verse ). 1 Peter 1:3


I haven't read through the entire thread, but has anyone covered the idea found in Romans 1:

"... God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do...".



Now, is this referring to what stage of [whose?] life? -

--at the point of conception?

--at the point of physical birth?

--at the point of coming to the age of understanding right from wrong?

--at the age of adulthood?

--at the time that: "when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful...and their foolish heart was darkened"?

--at the time that: "God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves... and worshipped the creature more than the Creator..."?

--at the time that: "For this cause God gave them up unto their vile affections..."?

--at the time that: "even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient..."?

--or other?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ EDIT (to add): so were these BORN "reprobate"? or later "given over to"?


What would be the point of giving [the supposed] "reprobates" OVER TO [giving them over to] a reprobate mind? They would be already there.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

My my, there is 1545 references to strongs, including a collection of his writtings

People can go to that link and see, and you still have the nerve to lie?

Your the entertainment,

YOu are a sad

^ "... by means of [the] resurrection of Jesus Christ out from [the] dead." (we shouldn't fail to include the rest of the verse ). 1 Peter 1:3


I haven't read through the entire thread, but has anyone covered the idea found in Romans 1:

"... God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do...".



Now, is this referring to what stage of [whose?] life? -

--at the point of conception?

--at the point of physical birth?

--at the point of coming to the age of understanding right from wrong?

--at the age of adulthood?

--at the time that: "when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful...and their foolish heart was darkened"?

--at the time that: "God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves... and worshipped the creature more than the Creator..."?

--at the time that: "For this cause God gave them up unto their vile affections..."?

--at the time that: "even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient..."?

--or other?

yes, think I"ve read that a few time........and Romans 1 and 2 are focused on the "moral" man, the man who has his own "righteousness"

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Alexander the coppersmith did Paul much harm by vigorously opposing Paul’s teaching 2 Tim 14

Alexander and Hymenaeus
Paul turned them over to Satan so they may be taught not to blasphem

Jannes & Jambres - men of depraved mind
Ref: Exodus 7:11 2 Tim 13:8
Men who oppose truth are men of depraved mind, rejected as regards the faith (reprobate)

Is 8:20 If they speak NOT according to this word, it is because they have no light in them.

Hymenaeus and Philetus
They have gone away from the truth, their talk spreads like gangrene

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YOu are a sad

Your funny. And now in my prayer bin. Will pray for God to help you with your anger issues

 

[Macabeus]

My bible says a person who lives in sin has never seen God and never known him, it also says a child of God can not live in sin because they have been born of God.

Never means never, if you have never known him, you have never been saved. So they did not “lose” salvation, you can not lose something ecausev

never had.

Real believers know they can nit meet Gods standard, so they entered Gods rest, and focus on serving others not trying to “make sure they do not sin to much”

I never said anything about losing salvation. It got confusing for you guys because I responded on this thread thinking it was another one. My position is that a true believer will not practice sin. And in security of believers. We are secure IN CHRIST

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Totally depraved is how God sees US, not how we see ourselves. The doctrine of total depravity says that man is as bad off as he can be, which may not always be manifested in conduct but is made manifest in every other way (opinions, ideology, desires, etc)

Unregenerate man is the natural man, the unbeliever. He oversteps the bound of decency God has set for man. In his natural state he is:
Full of iniquity – that which is altogether wrong
Wicked – the outward expression of his evil nature
Evil (in man) – that which opposes the goodness and holiness of God
Ungodly – lacks respect and reverence for God 2 Tim 3: 2-5
Lawless – is in open contempt of divine law
Disobedient – unwillingness to be led or guided in the ways of truth
Iniquitous – altogether wrong
In Error – gone astray from the bou
Deceitful - Jer 17:9
Hard Matt 19:8
Inclined to wickedness Is 32:6
Unstable in all his ways James 1:18

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Your funny. And now in my prayer bin. Will pray for God to help you with your anger issues

You think I"m mad? ........ because you can't deal with the truth of the scriptures I have given to you? (1 Peter 1:3)
If I was angry on these forums I would get another hobby, life if too short to waste it on being angry and I have a LIFE, I do not spend endless hours in these forums. My posts are reactive to what is thrown my way, trying to answer and giving back according to what was posted to me. I am not God's doormat.

I think your LOGOs software programs are a waste. They offer programs for EVERY type of doctrine the buyer might adhere to. Choices to pick something sound, or, there are many that only bolster bad theology. Your post of "Strong's quote" shows me where you are, not knowing the differnce between the concordance of Augustus Strong (apostate) and James Strong. Either your quote from "Strongs" was from Augustus or you made it up. Either way I don't care. It's your eternity, follow whatever journey you choose.

 

[notuptome]

Man is totally unable to save himself. Man can do good but it does not aid in righteousness.

Mt 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Alexander the coppersmith did Paul much harm by vigorously opposing Paul’s teaching 2 Tim 14

Alexander and Hymenaeus
Paul turned them over to Satan so they may be taught not to blasphem

Jannes & Jambres - men of depraved mind
Ref: Exodus 7:11 2 Tim 13:8
Men who oppose truth are men of depraved mind, rejected as regards the faith (reprobate)

Is 8:20 If they speak NOT according to this word, it is because they have no light in them.

Hymenaeus and Philetus
They have gone away from the truth, their talk spreads like gangrene

Okay, but my question (which you seem to have overlooked) has to do with the following idea:

WHEN are you saying that the "MEN" listed above (which I've bolded in your post ^ ) had the verb-y other-bold things applicable to them (when was this true of them?):

--in the womb?

--when they were born as babies?

--when they first learned right from wrong?

--when they became full-grown adults?

--when they [evidenced the verb-things in bold]?

--other?? (like, "from eternity past?" lol)

 

[Grandpa]

Totally depraved is how God sees US, not how we see ourselves. The doctrine of total depravity says that man is as bad off as he can be, which may not always be manifested in conduct but is made manifest in every other way (opinions, ideology, desires, etc)

Unregenerate man is the natural man, the unbeliever. He oversteps the bound of decency God has set for man. In his natural state he is:
Full of iniquity – that which is altogether wrong
Wicked – the outward expression of his evil nature
Evil (in man) – that which opposes the goodness and holiness of God
Ungodly – lacks respect and reverence for God 2 Tim 3: 2-5
Lawless – is in open contempt of divine law
Disobedient – unwillingness to be led or guided in the ways of truth
Iniquitous – altogether wrong
In Error – gone astray from the bou
Deceitful - Jer 17:9
Hard Matt 19:8
Inclined to wickedness Is 32:6
Unstable in all his ways James 1:18

I'm surprised that there has been this much argument.

Everyone seems to agree that men cannot be Righteous by their own work and they can't save themselves by their own work.

This implies inability.

This implies that men are NATURALLY inclined to something other than Righteousness and Salvation.

Depraved.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Okay, but my question (which you seem to have overlooked) has to do with the following idea:

WHEN are you saying that the "MEN" listed above (which I've bolded in your post ^ ) had the verb-y other-bold things applicable to them (when was this true of them?):

--in the womb?

--when they were born as babies?

--when they first learned right from wrong?

--when they became full-grown adults?

--when they [evidenced the verb-things in bold]?

--other?? (like, "from eternity past?" lol)

Since God chose us, therefor made us, before the foundation of the world (before creation) it would be logical to think that God made all His "Pots" at that time. Some for glory and some for destruction.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I'm surprised that there has been this much argument.

Everyone seems to agree that men cannot be Righteous by their own work and they can't save themselves by their own work.

This implies inability.

This implies that men are NATURALLY inclined to something other than Righteousness and Salvation.

Depraved.

amen