Is Speaking in Tongues still available today?

[FollowerofShiloh]

The reason we know it is specific to "tongues" and not languages. Look at verse 3.
3 and there appeared to them tongues like fire distributing themselves, and it sat on each one of them;

 

[turbosixx]

I can't find the post. I think it was CD1, that the greater gift is


I think you are doing the same. 'The first century' part is not in the Bible. We were not resurrected in the first century. Paul is still deceased.

We should interpret I Corinthians 13 in light of the rest of the teaching of the epistle. These are some statements from chapter 1.

5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Paul mentions ideas he will go into more detail into in the rest of the book. He describes utterance and knowledge here. Utterance shows up in the treatment of tongues and prophecy later. In verse 7, we see that he wished or expected that they lack any spiritual gift while waiting for the Lord Jesus to come back.

Look at some of the concepts in the passage we are discussing in I Corinthians 13 and compare them to those discussed in the next two chapters.

I Corinthians 13
1. tongues 2. prophecy 3. the coming of the perfect

I Corinthians 14-15
1. tongues 2. prophecy 3. the resurrection of the dead at the return of Christ.


That doesn't follow, logically.

Also, look at what Paul says in this very chapter we are discussing, I Corinthians 13.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Paul applies this to himself. When the perfect comes, it will make his speech, understanding and thoughts that he had the.... when he was writing scripture.... like a child's in comparison to what they will be like when the perfect comes. At the return of Christ whether we are resurrected or alive and remain, we will be transformed as we see in chapter 15 of this same book. Paul will experience that.

Suppose you want to stretch the interpretation, and say he's talking about the Bible being written in the first century or the KJV being translated in 1611, or something along those lines... but you say he's talking about us, too. So when the Bible was completed, did all Christians become so mature in their speech, understanding, and thought that Paul was like a baby in comparison? I think it is obvious that many believers nowadays do not understand the gospel as well as Paul did. If you are still learning from Paul's writings, you have disproved the idea that Paul was writing about the Bible here.



How do you know that? Did he have no gift of teaching or exhortation? Why would you make such a judgement?



Did you pray for your friend? Did he get healed? What would you say to the atheist who said your friend died after you prayed for him, and concluded that there was no God. It seems like a lot of cessationists use similar reasoning to some of the atheists, except the argument is about spiritual gifts instead of the existence of God. What would you say to someone who argues that God does not answer prayer?

Also if you say the only gift he had was tongues, how would his not healing her be evidence against the continuation of the gifts of healing? The New Testament says nothing about that gift ceasing.

Better evidence on the topic comes from the people who ARE healed. When I was in middle school, a classmate who had visibly obvious vision problems-- here eyes' were crossed and weren't normal-- who was healed after an evangelist laid hands on her. You could also read Craig Keener's 1000+ page book called 'Miracles.'

If you don't mind, maybe you can help me to understand why you believe we still have spiritual gifts today by helping me with how I misunderstand what the bible is telling me.

I think a logical place to start would be how does someone receive a spiritual gift. This is what I see the bible telling me then I will address your counter arguments.

By the laying of the apostle's hands:
6 These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them.
This is the seven and we see evidence that they received spiritual gifts.

18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands,
Peter didn't have to address Simons request because he had a bigger problem, for your heart is not right before God

Those in Ephesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

You are correct, Paul does say about Timothy 14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you.
If he hadn't told us For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands, then I would agree. In a situation like this, I would look to harmony of scripture and say Paul gave him the gifts. For arguments sake, if elders could give gifts, then there would be a supporting scripture of an elder giving someone a gift that an apostle hadn't laid hands on.

11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you—
Why does Paul need to come to them to give them a spiritual gift if an apostle isn't required?

As for Barnabus and Paul, yes the prophets and teachers laid hands on them but it doesn't say they gave them spiritual gifts.


Now to Cornelius. If you don't see Cornelius as a special situation then I will need a good explanation of why not in order for me to put any value in what you tell me. I will lay out why Cornelius is a special situation. They received spiritual gifts directly from God for a specific purpose. To prove, to the Jews, the gospel is for Gentiles and they are to be included as God's people. Other than the apostle Paul, there is no other conversion that is like it nor comes close to being as detailed before or after Cornelius. There is a complete, long, chapter devoted to it and it's talked about in 2 other chapters. There is also a vision involved.
There are only 2 times God directly gave someone spiritual gifts as evident by speaking in tongues and each was a special situation. The apostles on Pentecost and Cornelius. Each time they are referred to, it's called "baptized WITH the HS".

The apostles:
4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” And we know that they received the HS directly from God evident by the speaking in tongues.

Cornelius:
We know that they received the HS directly from God and it was evident by speaking in tongues. When Peter later tells this account, this is what he says; 15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
If Cornelius isn't a special situation, then all you have to do is point out another conversion where they received the HS directly from God and it was evident by the speaking in tongues.

That's my understanding of the bible telling me how someone gets spiritual gifts.

 

[MarcoftheTruth]

‭‭Mark 16:15-18 NIV‬‬
[15] He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. [16] Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. [17] And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; [18] they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

I am not sure if accompany means they will do it or false followers because he said this also:

‭‭Matthew 7:22-23 NIV‬‬
[22] Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ [23] Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[jamessb]

The reason we know it is specific to "tongues" and not languages. Look at verse 3.
3 and there appeared to them tongues like fire distributing themselves, and it sat on each one of them;

Acts 2:3-4 (NRSVue) Divided tongues, as of fire, appeared among them, and a tongue rested on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them ability."

Acts 2:3-4 (NET) And tongues spreading out like a fire appeared to them and came to rest on each one of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit, and they began to speak in other languages as the Spirit enabled them."

Acts 2:3-4 (KJV): And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

I have never seen a language appear as "tongues of fire". And they don't come to rest on people. It makes zero sense. Translations that use the same word for flames and languages are clearly poor translations.

 

[studentoftheword]

1 Corinthians 14:22 ESV
Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
1 Corinthians 14:13 ESV
Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.

1 Corinthians 14:39 ESV
So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

 

[tylerbones1313]

Pail said NO HUMAN could understand.

That means from beginning of time to the end NO HUMAN can understand.

Is it that difficult for you to understand Paul said NO HUMAN CAN UNDERSTAND?


I would have to call God a liar to agree with you!!

I will not when Paul made it clear NO HUMAN CAN UNDERSTAND!

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Look very closely at the context of the verse. Using singular personal pronouns throughout. Here in this verse "no man" doesn't mean everyone, just the individual speaking in an unknown tongue. The reason I come to this conclusion:

In the original Koine Greek, the words "unknown" and "him" are not explicitly present in 1 Corinthians 14:2. This subtle addition in many English translations does affect the interpretation of the verse.

Here's a breakdown of how the meaning shifts:

Original Greek:

• "ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ Θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια"

Word-for-word Translation:

• "For the one speaking in [a] tongue not to men speaks but to God, for no one hears, but in [the] spirit he speaks mysteries."

Key Differences:

• "Tongue" instead of "Unknown Tongue": The focus shifts from the unintelligibility of the language to the concept of 'a tongue' itself. This can imply any language, supernatural or earthly, not specifically one that's unknown.
• No "him": Removing this pronoun changes the emphasis. The focus is less on who understands the language, and more on the act of speaking the mysteries of God.

 

[Seekingwisdom]

1 Corinthians 14:22 ESV
Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
1 Corinthians 14:13 ESV
Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.

1 Corinthians 14:39 ESV
So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Hello everyone. I am an elderly christian and would like to share a few verses. I have only read some of the sections of this thread ...the comments in the early sections of the thread..I decided to try to share something hoping it will help. Since I have not read the entire thread these verses may already have been shared. Please look at the Bible verses Mark 16: 6-20 ..especially look at Mark chapter 16 verses 16 and 17. I believe because of God's love for us all when we humbly look to Him for understanding, for answers to spiritual questions He will reveal the truth in His time if our heart is humble and repentant and our motive is genuine. The experience of speaking in tongues as mentioned in the Bible is a supernatural event ...the account of Jesus resurrection from the dead is an amazing supernatural event. Sometimes it is not easy for the natural human mind to truly accept the realm of the supernatural..so I think that only when we can humbly submit our entire self to God will we be able to believe and experience some of the things that God wants to show us . It is very important I think for us to seek the fruits of the spirit, to seek to draw closer to God day by day with a humble repentant heart and then He will be able to work in us and through us by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ChristFllwr]

As noted, that is just wishful thinking. Each person will give account only for themselves, and what they believed, and taught. Apart from the apostolic period, historically (and broadly) there was no speaking in tongues in Christianity until the early 20th century. So that should tell you something.

Hum. Documentation?

 

[ChristFllwr]

Hello everyone. I am an elderly christian and would like to share a few verses. I have only read some of the sections of this thread ...the comments in the early sections of the thread..I decided to try to share something hoping it will help. Since I have not read the entire thread these verses may already have been shared. Please look at the Bible verses Mark 16: 6-20 ..especially look at Mark chapter 16 verses 16 and 17. I believe because of God's love for us all when we humbly look to Him for understanding, for answers to spiritual questions He will reveal the truth in His time if our heart is humble and repentant and our motive is genuine. The experience of speaking in tongues as mentioned in the Bible is a supernatural event ...the account of Jesus resurrection from the dead is an amazing supernatural event. Sometimes it is not easy for the natural human mind to truly accept the realm of the supernatural..so I think that only when we can humbly submit our entire self to God will we be able to believe and experience some of the things that God wants to show us . It is very important I think for us to seek the fruits of the spirit, to seek to draw closer to God day by day with a humble repentant heart and then He will be able to work in us and through us by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Well said. thank you.

 

[tylerbones1313]

Pail said NO HUMAN could understand.

That means from beginning of time to the end NO HUMAN can understand.

Is it that difficult for you to understand Paul said NO HUMAN CAN UNDERSTAND?


I would have to call God a liar to agree with you!!

I will not when Paul made it clear NO HUMAN CAN UNDERSTAND!

Instead of concentrating on whether the tongues are known or unknown how about looking at the theme of 1 Cor. Chapter 14 emphasis on Tongues requiring Interpretation, otherwise be silent and talk to God. These are during intense almost complete silent moments of the Spirit within a service. In these moments if someone stood and spoke in tongues without an Interpreter he said it is out of order and the need to be silent (not completely just to themselves). When someone does give a message in Tongues that is accompanied by Interpretation, the Tongues is most likely (because it needs Interpretation) unknown to, either the majority of or entire congregation (This is the one I believe because of the theme of 1 Cor. Chapter 14), who are we to be limits on God who does and doesn't understand. In Acts 2 the entire crowd understood.

 

[tylerbones1313]

If the Holy Spirit, Who is God, gives the utterance to speak in tongues, how can it be human?
It has to be God speaking.

It is God speaking, but it could be know human languages or extinct ones or even angelic.

 

[ChristFllwr]

1Cor. 12:10 "...to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues."

Interpretation of tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit on its own. it would operate somewhat like prophecy. One would speak in a language that he/she doesn't understand and the other would be given the words through the Gift/Power of the Holy Spirit. They also wouldn't know the language but the words would be given to the individual.


'

 

[Seekingwisdom]

It is God speaking, but it could be know human languages or extinct ones or even angelic.

Hello again my friends on christian chat. May God bless you all in a special way today. I am in Texas USA and had started reading the thread but had only read a few of the answers at the beginning when I believed God placed on my heart to try to share a verse. So I just went to the very end and read the last comment and shared my previous post to you. After I posted that I went back and looked at some of the other comments at the end of the thread and saw that someone else Marcofthetruth in Australia had already shared the verse that I mentioned in my post. So God had given us the same word to share for the thread. We are all connected across the world through our faithful mighty God

 

[tylerbones1313]

A one time event.
Paul explains the other events when no person understood.
Why are you so hung up on a one time event that never happened again in the Bible when there's example after example in the Bible where people never understand that Paul writes about?

Let me be clear and say that from Acts Chapter 2 until Jesus returns, everyone received or will receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost the same as the 120+. Why are we assuming the 120+ in the Upper Room received a different Holy Ghost that we did? I have already mentioned this in a previous post:

The cloven tongues of fire. The sound of a violent stormy wind. And feeling the tongues of fire sitting upon them. These mentioned is what makes it a one time event, everything else is the same. These mentioned were visible and audible signs of the Holy Spirit's descent upon the disciples. They signified:

• The fulfillment of Jesus' promise to send the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4-5).
• The empowering of the disciples to fulfill their mission of spreading the Gospel (Acts 1:8).
• The beginning of the Church as the followers of Christ were united and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Look very closely at the context of the verse. Using singular personal pronouns throughout. Here in this verse "no man" doesn't mean everyone, just the individual speaking in an unknown tongue. The reason I come to this conclusion:

In the original Koine Greek, the words "unknown" and "him" are not explicitly present in 1 Corinthians 14:2. This subtle addition in many English translations does affect the interpretation of the verse.

Here's a breakdown of how the meaning shifts:

Original Greek:

• "ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ Θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια"

Word-for-word Translation:

• "For the one speaking in [a] tongue not to men speaks but to God, for no one hears, but in [the] spirit he speaks mysteries."

Key Differences:

• "Tongue" instead of "Unknown Tongue": The focus shifts from the unintelligibility of the language to the concept of 'a tongue' itself. This can imply any language, supernatural or earthly, not specifically one that's unknown.
• No "him": Removing this pronoun changes the emphasis. The focus is less on who understands the language, and more on the act of speaking the mysteries of God.

When someone speaks in tongues and you hear it can you understand it?
I cannot until the Holy Spirit gives me the Interpretation. And not every time do I get that. So I believe "No Man" pertains to all humans.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Instead of concentrating on whether the tongues are known or unknown how about looking at the theme of 1 Cor. Chapter 14 emphasis on Tongues requiring Interpretation, otherwise be silent and talk to God. These are during intense almost complete silent moments of the Spirit within a service. In these moments if someone stood and spoke in tongues without an Interpreter he said it is out of order and the need to be silent (not completely just to themselves). When someone does give a message in Tongues that is accompanied by Interpretation, the Tongues is most likely (because it needs Interpretation) unknown to, either the majority of or entire congregation (This is the one I believe because of the theme of 1 Cor. Chapter 14), who are we to be limits on God who does and doesn't understand. In Acts 2 the entire crowd understood.

Bottom line is only a select "few" ever get the understanding by interpretation. So I am not concentrating on anything but stating an absolute fact.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

It is God speaking, but it could be know human languages or extinct ones or even angelic.

It could be but the Bible does not make that claim or any claim. We are "ALL" guessing. But we do know it comes from God. So it is a fact to say it is God's tongues, not a language.

 

[tylerbones1313]

Only Acts 2 shows us tongues was human language one time. Acts 2 also shows us to be baptized in Jesus name and 5 other times the Bible "clearly states" they were baptized in Jesus name. There's no more mention after Acts 2 about tongues being a human language.

Here's the point of the issue. This form of tongues "only happens" when GOD (the Holy Spirit) gives the utterance. It does not happen properly in any other situation. So for it to be genuine and authentic, it must be GOD doing it. If God is doing, it cannot be a human issue. It is God doing it.

You have to try to look at Acts 2 and other instances in this way. In Acts 2 there were 120+ speaking in tongues and only 15 mentioned dialects or regions represented in the audience. All other instances after Acts 2 is just a handful or just one individual speaking in Tongues. Who are we to say it wasn't human language there just may not have been anyone present that knew the language.

There is so many different scenarios to really say whether it is known or unknown.

Look at what I highlighted above and then this:

1 Corinthians
Chapter 13
1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Let me be clear and say that from Acts Chapter 2 until Jesus returns, everyone received or will receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost the same as the 120+. Why are we assuming the 120+ in the Upper Room received a different Holy Ghost that we did? I have already mentioned this in a previous post:

My point is Acts 2 is a "one time event" to show a prophecy was fulfilled. After that it becomes a normal thing some Christians do. Big difference between the two.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You have to try to look at Acts 2 and other instances in this way. In Acts 2 there were 120+ speaking in tongues and only 15 mentioned dialects or regions represented in the audience. All other instances after Acts 2 is just a handful or just one individual speaking in Tongues. Who are we to say it wasn't human language there just may not have been anyone present that knew the language.

There is so many different scenarios to really say whether it is known or unknown.

Look at what I highlighted above and then this:

1 Corinthians
Chapter 13
1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

My point is Acts 2 is a "one time event" to show a prophecy was fulfilled. After that it becomes a normal thing some Christians do. Big difference between the two.