Is Speaking in Tongues still available today?

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tylerbones1313

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It could be but the Bible does not make that claim or any claim. We are "ALL" guessing. But we do know it comes from God. So it is a fact to say it is God's tongues, not a language.
Yes
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Understanding the theme of 1Cor. 14, as far as tongues is concerned, focuses on tongues that need interpretation. In those instances I believe (at least by faith - we can't limit God so not entirely sure) no one knows what is being said, the reason for interpretation. I am saying that it is God speaking, but not saying it couldn't be human language. There just wasn't anyone present to understand it. In most church setting today it wouldn't be like the day of pentecost so many languages present at one time.
 

tylerbones1313

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My point is Acts 2 is a "one time event" to show a prophecy was fulfilled. After that it becomes a normal thing some Christians do. Big difference between the two.
Not fulfilled being currently fulfilled.

Some christians so sad but very true. It should be all Christians desiring to have, otherwise need to question their Christianity.
 

tylerbones1313

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Yes
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Understanding the theme of 1Cor. 14, as far as tongues is concerned, focuses on tongues that need interpretation. In those instances I believe (at least by faith - we can't limit God so not entirely sure) no one knows what is being said, the reason for interpretation. I am saying that it is God speaking, but not saying it couldn't be human language. There just wasn't anyone present to understand it. In most church setting today it wouldn't be like the day of pentecost so many languages present at one time.
on the quoted post I meant to write Yes and No
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Yes
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Understanding the theme of 1Cor. 14, as far as tongues is concerned, focuses on tongues that need interpretation. In those instances I believe (at least by faith - we can't limit God so not entirely sure) no one knows what is being said, the reason for interpretation. I am saying that it is God speaking, but not saying it couldn't be human language. There just wasn't anyone present to understand it. In most church setting today it wouldn't be like the day of pentecost so many languages present at one time.
In my traveling days we visited many big churches that were clearly diversified. One church we spent a few months attending had a congregation of over 10,000 with people from all over the world. I never once heard someone say they ever heard their own language spoken during tongues. Not saying it does not happen and believe that it does. But in this church that had people from at least 60 nations never did. So I am not sure Acts 2 repeats itself as much as people claim. Not saying it doesn't. Just saying in an obvious setting where so many nations were represented it never happened. I will add it's possible it was never reported. But things like that tend to get announced.
 

Nehemiah6

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The writings of the Church Fathers until the 5th century are plenty of documentation. Had the gift of supernaturally speaking foreign languages been prevalent for 400 years after the apostolic period, they all would have recorded it. But none of them claimed to speak in biblical tongues (glossais).

Augustine live in the 4th-5th centuries and this is what he had to say about tongues in his Retractiones:
"Likewise, this statement of mine is indeed true: “These miracles were not allowed to last until our times lest the soul ever seek visible things and the human race grow cold because of familiarity with those things whose novelty enkindled it.” For not even now, when a hand is laid on the baptized, do they receive the Holy Spirit in such a way that they speak with the tongues of all nations; nor are the sick now healed by the passing shadow of the preachers of Christ. Even though such things happened at that time, manifestly these ceased later.

But what I said is not to be so interpreted that no miracles are believed to be performed in the name of Christ at the present time. For, when I wrote that book, I myself had recently learned that a blind man had been restored to sight in Milan near the bodies of the martyrs in that very city, and I knew about some other, so numerous even in these times, that we cannot know about all of them nor enumerate those we know.2728

https://charlesasullivan.com/3668/augustine-on-the-tongues-of-pentecost-intro/#anch7

All the Church Fathers understood "tongues" to be human languages. Had they continue in the churches as a spiritual gift, they would surely have written about this.
 

presidente

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But the oldest and known factual text we have comes from the "2nd century." The kjv comes from the 10th century which is the textus receptus. in the 2nd century text, it uses tongues.
Nonsense. The KJV is from the 17th century. Textus Receptus by Erasmus a contemporary of 16th century Martin Luther. TR was based on older manuscripts.
 

presidente

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2nd century text
4 and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, (as the Spirit) gave them utterance.

Notice, the Spirit "controlled" when they spoke in tongues, not the other way around.

And it specifically states "tongues" not languages.
Glossa can be translated tongues or languages.

1 Corinthians 14 indicates that the speaker in tongues could speak out of order when it is not proper to do so and that he can choose to refrain to speak in tongues
 

Underwhosewings

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2nd century text
4 and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, (as the Spirit) gave them utterance.

Notice, the Spirit "controlled" when they spoke in tongues, not the other way around.

And it specifically states "tongues" not languages.
Acts 2:6 KJV
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
 

Underwhosewings

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Because the church doesn't know the 'tongues of men and of angels' that are spoken. So someone needs to interpret so others can be edified.
The tongue of angels……

Revelation 5:2 KJV
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

They spoke in the language that the hearer would understand.

It’s quite simple really.
 

presidente

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If you don't mind, maybe you can help me to understand why you believe we still have spiritual gifts today by helping me with how I misunderstand what the bible is telling me.

I think a logical place to start would be how does someone receive a spiritual gift. This is what I see the bible telling me then I will address your counter arguments.

By the laying of the apostle's hands:
6 These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them.
This is the seven and we see evidence that they received spiritual gifts.
The apostles laid hands on the seven, apparently in connection with their service role of caring for widows. Paul and Barnabas laid hands on church elders also. Stephen and Philip did miracles later, but it doesn't say whether this had anything to do with the apostles having laid hands on them.

The Bible is very clear that spiritual gifts could be given through the laying on of the apostles' hands or without the laying on of the apostles' hands. In Acts 19, Paul lays hands on some men after they are baptized and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. But God had been empowering men to prophesy for over 1000 years before any of the twelve apostles, or Paul or Barnabas, were born.

In Acts not only did the Gentiles in Cornelius' house speak in tongues most likely without Peter laying hands on them, but Paul actually received grace and apostleship without the laying on of hands of the apostles and also did miracles, and laid hands on others and imparted spiritual gifts. Timothy received a gift through Paul's hands. He also received a gift through prophecy, accompanied by the laying on of hands of the apostles.

Ananias laid hands on Saul/Paul. He said he was sent that Saul might receive his sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost. He baptized Saul, and some time later, Saul was an apostle and did miracles. He wrote of apostles in Jerusalem that they that seemed to be somewhat added nothing to him, so that argues against the idea that he recieved a gift, even apostleship, through the laying on of hands of the apostles.

18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands,
Peter didn't have to address Simons request because he had a bigger problem, for your heart is not right before God


He had no part in that matter because his heart was not right before God. He thought he could buy the gift of God with money. Peter didn't tell him he couldn't do it because he wasn't an apostle, but because his heart was not right before God.

You are correct, Paul does say about Timothy 14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you.
If he hadn't told us For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands, then I would agree. In a situation like this, I would look to harmony of scripture and say Paul gave him the gifts.
Let's stick with what the text says... gift in the singular. There was the gift that was in him through the laying on of Paul's hands, and the gift that was given through prophecy, with the laying on of hands of the elders. If it were theologically significant for us to know that it was the same gift, why doesn't the scripture say so, and why two different ways of the gift being passed to him if there were only one way.

For arguments sake, if elders could give gifts, then there would be a supporting scripture of an elder giving someone a gift that an apostle hadn't laid hands on.
Neither apostles nor elders could give spiritual gifts. They can lay hands on people. I Corinthians 12 teaches that gifts are given as the Spirit wills. If they are laying hands on someone regarding a specific ministry, they can commend them to the grace of God. It may be apostles were moved to lay hands on an individual in regard to a certain gift, or the gift could be specified by prophecy.

The Spirit spoke when Barnabas and Saul were to be separated to the work.

11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you—
Why does Paul need to come to them to give them a spiritual gift if an apostle isn't required?
Spiritual gifts can be imparted by the laying on of hands of apostles. Spiritual gifts can be given 'as the Spirit wills' apart from the laying on of hands of the apostles.

Paul tells the one who speaks in tongues to pray that he may interpret (I Corinthians 14:13.) He does not say to pray that an apostle will come to town and lay hands on you so that you may interpret. It would be odd for Paul to tell the Corinthians to eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially that they may prophesy if there was no chance they could do so if the apostles hadn't laid hands on them specifically to prophesy.

Now to Cornelius. If you don't see Cornelius as a special situation then I will need a good explanation of why not in order for me to put any value in what you tell me. I will lay out why Cornelius is a special situation. They received spiritual gifts directly from God for a specific purpose. To prove, to the Jews, the gospel is for Gentiles and they are to be included as God's people.
Maybe God cared about Cornelius, too. His alms had come up as a memorial before God. You can choose one aspect of the story and say that is THE exclusive purpose of the events... just because you say so. But that method is just a way to eisegete one's own opinions into the passage. All scripture is profitable for doctrine. This passage shows pretty good evidence of a spiritual gift being imparted without the laying on of hands of the apostles. In fact, two of the three passages that mention speaking in tongues in Acts do NOT involve the laying on of hands of the apostles. You are trying to piece together a doctrine that says that gifts are exclusively passed through the laying on of hands of the apostles, but then you have to make out the various examples and statements that don't fit as exceptions.


Other than the apostle Paul, there is no other conversion that is like it nor comes close to being as detailed before or after Cornelius. There is a complete, long, chapter devoted to it and it's talked about in 2 other chapters. There is also a vision involved.
There are only 2 times God directly gave someone spiritual gifts as evident by speaking in tongues and each was a special situation. The apostles on Pentecost and Cornelius. Each time they are referred to, it's called "baptized WITH the HS".
So how many specific stories do we have of conversions of individuals in Acts? I can think of five off the top of my head, Sergius Paulus, Lyddia, the Philippian jailer's household, and the two you mentioned. And two of those are 'special cases.' Given he percentage of 'special cases' in scripture, maybe we should just conclude that God can do 'special cases', and not base doctrine on the idea that God normally does non-special cases without any scripture at all to back up what a normal case is supposed to be like. Sergius Paulus and the Philippian jailer were converted after seeing supernatural events, so are those special cases or normative cases?

Have a look at Acts 11:16 in an interlinear. The word translated 'with' there is 'en' in Greek, and often translated as 'in'.

The apostles:
4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

But the Greek word is ἐν (en) so often translated as 'in'.

And we know that they received the HS directly from God evident by the speaking in tongues.

Cornelius:
We know that they received the HS directly from God and it was evident by speaking in tongues. When Peter later tells this account, this is what he says; 15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
If Cornelius isn't a special situation, then all you have to do is point out another conversion where they received the HS directly from God and it was evident by the speaking in tongues.
Since there are only three cases of speaking in tongues in Acts, and you believe that two of them were cases of receiving the Holy Spirit directly from God, why would you conclude that receiving directly from God is not normative?

That verse in Luke comes to mind, about how if ye then being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children, shall not the Father give the Holy Ghost to them that asks Him.
 

presidente

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The tongue of angels……

Revelation 5:2 KJV
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

They spoke in the language that the hearer would understand.

It’s quite simple really.
This was a case where the hearer was supposed to understand. I would assume John did not grow up speaking the tongue or tongues of angels.

If Pilate spoke to Jesus in Greek and every quote from Pilate in scripture was actually spoken in Greek, is that proof that the man did not speak Latin? Why didn't he just speak Latin all the time to the high priests, even if they didn't understand it?

Did Arabic exist at that time? We never see anyone in the Bible speaking in. Does that prove it didn't exist?
 

presidente

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If God gives the utterance why would it be angel language? It came from God not from angels.
Why wouldn't God know the tongues of men and of angels? You believe God knows all languages, don't you?

Most of your arguments on this topic don't make much sense, IMO.

Paul wrote of speaking in the tongues of men and of angels. Acts 2 mentions specific languages. Those are the clues we have as to what languages are spoken when Paul refers to speaking in languages as a spiritual gift.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Acts 2:6 KJV
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
I have never disputed this point at all. It's only a one time event. Nowhere else is it listed when connected with speaking in tongues.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Nonsense. The KJV is from the 17th century. Textus Receptus by Erasmus a contemporary of 16th century Martin Luther. TR was based on older manuscripts.
You need to read Erasmus to understand how he created the textus receptus from the 10th century Vulgate he translated back to the Greek language. But I am in agreement the kjv "is not" from the most original source we have.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Why wouldn't God know the tongues of men and of angels? You believe God knows all languages, don't you?

Most of your arguments on this topic don't make much sense, IMO.

Paul wrote of speaking in the tongues of men and of angels. Acts 2 mentions specific languages. Those are the clues we have as to what languages are spoken when Paul refers to speaking in languages as a spiritual gift.
Why can't God speak His own language He had before He created the angels and then humans?
 

tylerbones1313

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I have never disputed this point at all. It's only a one time event. Nowhere else is it listed when connected with speaking in tongues.
Other than the audible sound of wind and visible tongues of fire and feeling of tongues sitting on them. If condition were the same. 120+ speaking in tongues and a congregation of 15 different languages represented. Then the congregation would hear in their own language with no need for an interpreter, because they are speaking a human language. You just don't see that kind of conditions in common church services.
 

tylerbones1313

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In my traveling days we visited many big churches that were clearly diversified. One church we spent a few months attending had a congregation of over 10,000 with people from all over the world. I never once heard someone say they ever heard their own language spoken during tongues. Not saying it does not happen and believe that it does. But in this church that had people from at least 60 nations never did. So I am not sure Acts 2 repeats itself as much as people claim. Not saying it doesn't. Just saying in an obvious setting where so many nations were represented it never happened. I will add it's possible it was never reported. But things like that tend to get announced.
What I was trying to say was that if over 120 people started speaking in tongues at one time, in a congregation of that many nations one or more people will hear their own language. I never meant the act of giving tongues by one or at most three. When done individually, in tongues meant for the congregation to hear, and Interpretation is needed. I believe it to be an unknown language to ALL present, but very well could be a human language, just no one present could understand.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Glossa can be translated tongues or languages.

1 Corinthians 14 indicates that the speaker in tongues could speak out of order when it is not proper to do so and that he can choose to refrain to speak in tongues
Verses that confirm the Holy Spirit acts first then tongues can be spoken:

1. 4 and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, (as the Spirit) gave them utterance.

2. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries (by the Spirit).

3. 8 To one there (is given through the Spirit the utterance) ...All of the Gifts including speaking in tongues

That's THREE VERSES that say the Spirit gives utterance before tongues is spoken.

So you are misunderstanding Chapter 14. There's only one way it can be true and genuine. When the Holy Spirit gives the utterance ""first.""
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Other than the audible sound of wind and visible tongues of fire and feeling of tongues sitting on them. If condition were the same. 120+ speaking in tongues and a congregation of 15 different languages represented. Then the congregation would hear in their own language with no need for an interpreter, because they are speaking a human language. You just don't see that kind of conditions in common church services.
It will never happen that way and the conditions could never be met exactly the same because the prophesy has been fulfilled. They saw the RISEN JESUS and He ascended. They were beaming with so much faith no one today could ever match it. And it was the first miracle of the Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended. It could never ever be duplicated.
 

FollowerofShiloh

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What I was trying to say was that if over 120 people started speaking in tongues at one time, in a congregation of that many nations one or more people will hear their own language.
In the church of 10,000 people at least half, if not more were speaking in tongues. It was the most amazing thing I ever experienced. The power of God was incredible. And that happened in many of their church services. And still no claims of understanding theiur native language. That is my point.

I sat on the main floor, the side areas, the balcony areas and just watched when I was not worshiping. I just wanted to see.