Is the doctrine of limited atonement biblical?

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Is the doctrine of limited atonement biblical?

  • Yes, Jesus died for a particular group of people and his atonement accomplishes their salvation.

    Votes: 2 28.6%
  • No, Jesus died for all men, without exception, and his atonement only makes salvation possible.

    Votes: 5 71.4%

  • Total voters
    7

UnitedWithChrist

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Aug 12, 2019
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#1
The doctrines of grace, which some call the Five Points of Calvinism (TULIP), are the topic of some threads I’ve started.

I am not typically the kind of person who likes to debate this topic with people on forums, but a small number of individuals have harassed me on this topic as it has been brought up in threads. Some have called the teaching demonic, and one indicated that I was an idiot for thinking Reformed theology is biblical.

So, I decided to explain the five doctrines of grace in separate threads over time, and why I hold this position. I may also cover other aspects of Reformed teaching in the future.

I don’t believe Reformed theology is necessary to understand for salvation, and I have several non-Reformed friends. None of them are anti-Reformed haters, though, or I wouldn’t spend much time with them.

I think it is important for the encouragement of the Church to understand the principles related to Reformed theology. Why?

Reformed theology should lead to humility. The doctrines of grace were meant to humble the Christian into realizing that salvation is God’s work, therefore they cannot take credit for it. The real believer seeks to glorify and worship God, not themselves and themselves.

Due to influences in the church that I will call “free will theology”, the vast majority of Christians are being taught to glorify human free-will over God’s sovereignty.

Man-centered theology leads to pride and a lack of humility. Pride is the deadly enemy of the believer. Ironically, it can also lead to self-condemnation and a lack of self-confidence in some, because their focus is not on the LORD but is on themselves and their own weakness.

So, is the doctrine of limited atonement biblical? If not, why not?

I will describe why I think it is biblical.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#2
REFORMED POSITION OF LIMITED ATONEMENT

  • The Father has elected individuals, since the foundation of the world, marking them for salvation.
  • The atonement of Jesus on the Cross secures the salvation of these elect individuals, marked since the foundation of the world.
  • These elect individuals alone will be saved through the atonement of Christ, and that is why the position is called “limited atonement”.
  • The atonement did not make their salvation a mere possibility; their salvation was accomplished through the atonement.
  • Limited atonement makes salvation a profoundly personal matter between the believer and the LORD.
  • The believer is united with Christ in a legal and vital sense, and this is how all the gifts relating to salvation become his possession in time.
  • This atonement does not apply in any theoretical or real sense to reprobates who suffer eternal punishment.
  • The atonement is limited in terms of those who experience it, but unlimited in terms of its effectiveness towards them.
  • The Reformed view is also called particular redemption, actual atonement, or intentional atonement
FREE-WILLER POSITION OF GENERAL ATONEMENT

  • Christ’s redeeming work makes it possible for everyone to be saved but did not actually secure or guarantee salvation for anyone.
  • This general atonement is unlimited in terms of those who could possibly experience it but limited in terms of its effectiveness (no one is actually saved through the atonement; only the possibility of salvation exists).
  • Jesus’ death enables God to pardon sinners in the event that they believe but did not accomplish atonement for anyone.
  • The general atonement view is called unlimited atonement or universal redemption.
NOTE: I am using the phrase free-willer to describe the Arminian position, as well as the position of many others with similar theology. I am simply to accommodate their preference. Some prefer to be called free-willers rather than Arminians, and I understand because I do not like to be called a Calvinist. By condescending to using this free-willer term, though, I do not acknowledge their assertion that Reformed theology teaches that man, is, in effect, a “robot” who doesn’t make any type of choices himself. Man makes choices, but he does not have “libertarian free will”. Unregenerate man’s choices are limited by his fallen nature. He has “creaturely free will”. Man’s free will is subject to his nature and is subject to external influences including God’s sovereign will.

I will present the Scriptural defense for the Reformed position. I am not obligated to produce Scriptures defending the other view, as that would be time consuming, and since I don’t hold their view, I wouldn’t be predisposed to representing it as accurately as they can.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#3
Unfortunately, many churches avoid discussing limited atonement, even if they teach Reformed theology. I think this is unfortunate.

This doctrine emphasizes the reality that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit act in tandem. The Father elects a people for his Son’s possession. The Son purchases these believers for Himself through his blood on the Cross. The Holy Spirit applies the benefits of the Son’s atonement in time to each elect believer in an individual manner.

Limited atonement is a personal doctrine. It teaches that the atonement covers the sins of the elect, not a nameless mass of individuals, most of which will never accept Christ.

Additionally, it teaches that the atonement is effective. This atonement actually achieves the salvation of the person, and doesn’t just make it possible, like the free-willers claim.

Here are some other strengths of limited atonement:

  • Limited atonement is personal. Each believer can be assured that Jesus died joyfully for him, knowing that this atonement would cover his sins and would effect his salvation.
  • Limited atonement leaves no room for individual boasting and pride about personal merits and their contribution to one’s salvation, as it has been accomplished solely by Jesus. The atoning work of Jesus actually accomplishes the salvation of those it was intended for. Limited atonement excludes personal merit and boasting, and places the focus on Jesus, which is where it belongs.
  • Limited atonement displays the coordinated, effective work of the Triune God. The Father elects a particular people from all mankind at the foundation of the world. The Son atones for the sins of this particular people on the Cross. The Holy Spirit applies the work of Christ to this same particular group, which was given to the Son from the foundation of the world. General atonement claims that the Father elected a certain number of individuals, but Jesus died for all. Somehow the Father and Son couldn’t get their plan coordinated in this view.
  • Limited atonement is coherent. Limited atonement doesn’t raise this question: if Jesus’ atonement paid for the sins of all mankind, why do some still go to eternal punishment?
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#4
SUPPORTING SCRIPTURES FOR LIMITED ATONEMENT

God has a chosen people, called “the elect”

Matthew 11:27 27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Matthew 22:14 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Matthew 24:22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Matthew 24:24 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Matthew 24:31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Luke 18:7 7 And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night?

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Romans 8:33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

Colossians 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,

1 Thessalonians 5:9 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness,

1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

1 Peter 2:8-10 8 …They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Revelation 17:14 14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#5
God chose, or elected, these individuals for salvation

Mark 13:20 0 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days

1 Corinthians 1:26-31 26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

2 Timothy 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#6
This choice, or election, occurred before the foundation of the world

Ephesians 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

Revelation 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Revelation 17:8 And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#7
The Father, upon the condition of redemption, gave the elected to the Son as his possession as part of the eternal redemptive plan

John 6:35-40 5 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Titus 2:14 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#8
Jesus, as the second Adam, reverses the curse associated with Adam at the Fall, destroying the work of Satan in the redemption

Romans 5:15-21 15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 John 3:8-10 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#9
Jesus actually saves the elect through his personal redemptive work on their behalf

Matthew 1:21 21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

Luke 19:10 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

2 Corinthians 5:21 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Galatians 1:3-4 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

1 Timothy 1:15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

1 Peter 3:18 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,


Romans 5:10 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Ephesians 2:13-16 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Colossians 1:21-22 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,

Romans 3:21-25 1 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Romans 5:8-9 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

1 Corinthians 1:30 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—

Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

Acts 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Titus 2:14 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Titus 3:5-6 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

1 Corinthians 1:30 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Hebrews 13:12 So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#10
Jesus accomplishes redemption specifically for the elect, those individuals who have been given to him by the Father.

Matthew 20:28 even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Matthew 26:28 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep

John 10:14-18 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

John 10:24-28 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 17:1-11 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

John 17:20 20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,

John 17:24-26 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. 26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

Ephesians 5:25-28 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

Romans 8:32-34 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Hebrews 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Revelation 5:9-10 9 And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation
, 10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#11
Through being united with Him, the elect experience the benefits of the atonement in time

Romans 6:1-14 1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Ephesians 1:3-14 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. 11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#12
The non-elect, who are called the children of Satan, are destined to eternal punishment

Romans 9:19-24 19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

1 John 3:8-10 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#13
RESPONSE TO VERSES INDICATING THAT CHRIST DIED FOR ALL MEN OR THE WORLD

  • Free-willers claim verses indicating Christ died for “all men” and his death saving “the world” as proof that limited atonement is incorrect.
  • Such verses would include John 1:9, 29, 3:16-17, 4:42, Romans 5:18, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, 19, 1 Timothy 2:4-6, Hebrews 2:9, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:1-2, 4:14
  • Other verses indicate that his death was definite in design and that he died for a specific people, securing salvation for them (not just making salvation possible)
  • The verses indicated in the second point were meant to correct the false view that salvation was for the Jews only, and not to proclaim salvation from all tribes, nations, and tongues. The elect are comprised of men from every tribe, nation, and tongue on earth. Jesus died for all men without distinctions such as nations, tribes or tongues, but did not die for all men without exception
  • If Jesus died for all men, then this would lead to universal salvation.
Other similar verses must be viewed in light of the immediate and cultural context.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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#14
RESPONSE TO THE CORPORATE ELECTION VIEW
  • Popular free-willer teachers like Leighton Flowers have taught that God elected Christ, and because believers are united with Christ, the label “elect” can be applied to them, but they themselves were not personally elected from the foundation of the world.
  • The attempt is to reduce the elect believers to a faceless group, rather than individuals who were selected by God from the foundation of the world.
  • Christ is indeed called the elect one, as was ancient Israel, but this use of the term does not negate the election of individual believers for salvation.
  • Believers are indeed united with Christ, the elect one, but this fact doesn’t negate the election of individual believers for salvation.
  • See John 6, 10, 1 Corinthians 1:26 ff, and other Scriptures listed concerning election that simply cannot be applied to corporate election.
  • Corporate election is an attempt to avoid the controversy that come from individual election, in that God’s redemptive love is confined to a particular group rather than all mankind. It may be controversial, but it is a biblical teaching.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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#15
Remarks concerning judging one’s salvation

Some on this site have claimed that I am prideful and intolerant of others that hold a different view on this topic. Others have claimed that I am not even a believer myself.

I expect this kind of juvenile behavior from chat rooms. I think they need to consider Jesus’ warning of Matthew 7:1-2. If you judge others (and I think it’s talking about their salvation), you need to watch out, because by the same standards you are judging someone, you will be judged.

I do not claim that others who disagree with me are unsaved. I don’t know about their salvation before God.

Regarding pridefulness, I would encourage all Christians to read books about pride and a lack of humility. I have read one within the last six months. Have you? You may be full of pride and not even know it, because sin is deceitful. The guy who claims he is not prideful is blind, because the moment you say that, you are demonstrating your pridefulness.

The particular book I would recommend is Humility: The Forgotten Virtue by Wayne Mack.

I think my particular approach, which is blunt, irks individuals from the anti-Reformed clique here. As a result, they are going to accuse me of anything they can.

Well, guess what? I am not above admitting that I am affected by pride at some level. All humans are. Are you? If not, that’s a sign you are deceiving yourself, and are in fact infected with pride.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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#16
Additional resources for study

I highly recommend the book Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended and Documented by David N. Steele as a great introduction to Reformed theology.

I would also recommend the “What is Reformed Theology?” sermon series by Brian Borgman on SermonAudio:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....=series&subsetitem=What+Is+Reformed+Theology?

Additionally, I recommend this Gotquestions.org article on limited atonement:

https://www.gotquestions.org/limited-atonement.html

Finally, these two sermons by Steven Lawson is very good on this topic:


 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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#17
Additional resources for study
i put this message already to another thread but i want to put it here because its more linked to this topic of atonement than prayer of arminian by spurgeon:


i dont know why but i kind of like you actually. we are very similar people we like to go back and forth.

john 5:25 Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

i know you havent ignored me because you like me as well.

lets talk about john 5:25. this is talking about those people who you would say in ephesians 2 are dead in trespasses and sins do you agree? but then they hear the voice of God. those who hear will live. so clearly they have an option to listen to it? to hear it?

i will become a calvinist right now i will tattoo john calvin's face (joke) if there is a verse that says only the elect can hear God's word. only the few can hear the voice of son of God the non-elect cant hear, john 5:25, when Jesus said go into all the world, preach to all nations.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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#18
Here's an additional remark...churches which are generally Reformed tend to deny limited atonement.

The reason they would say they deny it is due to the "all" Scriptures I reference above.

My position would be that they are being inconsistent, because they believe and affirm that God has elected certain individuals, but they claim that Jesus' atonement covered all mankind.

What is the use in electing individuals who will never be saved, because they are not part of the elect? Therefore, I think their real issue is with election. Either that, or they want to fit in with the rest of the evangelical church.

Actually the church I attend is in a similar situation. While they would generally agree with Reformed theology, and never mention something I would think reflects a weak, free-willer perspective, they do not talk about limited atonement, ever.

I can live with that situation personally, but I realize they are being inconsistent. Once the believer accepts election (that God chooses), it doesn't matter about limited atonement because Jesus' atonement is only effective for the elect. The rest are children of Satan who will never be saved, and who are destined for destruction.

I know their concern is that someone will think they are not part of the elect, and therefore cannot be saved. However, no Reformed person I have met would claim there is ever such a person as a man who wants to be saved, who cannot be saved. Salvation is open to all who will repent and believe.

The question is, what causes a person to repent and believe? Regeneration. And the fact that the person is one of the elect. Jesus' sheep hear his voice and respond. Goats, who are sons of the devil, don't hear his voice and don't respond. They may hear the words, but the words don't sink down to the heart level, and have an effect.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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#19
RESPONSE TO VERSES INDICATING THAT CHRIST DIED FOR ALL MEN OR THE WORLD

  • Free-willers claim verses indicating Christ died for “all men” and his death saving “the world” as proof that limited atonement is incorrect.
  • Such verses would include John 1:9, 29, 3:16-17, 4:42, Romans 5:18, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, 19, 1 Timothy 2:4-6, Hebrews 2:9, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:1-2, 4:14
  • Other verses indicate that his death was definite in design and that he died for a specific people, securing salvation for them (not just making salvation possible)
  • The verses indicated in the second point were meant to correct the false view that salvation was for the Jews only, and not to proclaim salvation from all tribes, nations, and tongues. The elect are comprised of men from every tribe, nation, and tongue on earth. Jesus died for all men without distinctions such as nations, tribes or tongues, but did not die for all men without exception
  • If Jesus died for all men, then this would lead to universal salvation.
Other similar verses must be viewed in light of the immediate and cultural context.
is there any proof this was the cultural context of the time?

but one thing i have to concede is that in one of the verses you posted it says poured out for MANY not all. it doesnt say all there. why does it sometimes say all and somtimes say many? thats what we need to know
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#20
why does it sometimes say all and sometimes say many? thats what we need to know
Well the answer is quite simple. Salvation is for all, but since all will not repent and be converted, it is the many who will actually be saved (even though the many are relatively few).

However God desires the salvation of all mankind, yet He will compel none to be saved. Each one must obey the Gospel because God commands both repentance and faith. But some have not obeyed the Gospel (Rom 10:16) and they will face the consequences.