Is there ANYBODY ...OUT THERE!!!

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PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,614
2,637
113
#1
Since becoming a born again Child of God, some 25 yrs. ago, I have come to understand 1 overriding principle. There isn't a Christian I know, including my wife and children, that believe exactly as I believe, on every doctrine or issue.

So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.

Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:

1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.

2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.

3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.

4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )

Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:

6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )

7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.

8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )

9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.

10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.

Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)

13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.

14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION

18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

20 Christ's return is imminent.

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
6,471
2,238
113
#2
we came pretty close

pretty close :giggle:

actually a 2.5 difference
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,376
567
113
#3
Since becoming a born again Child of God, some 25 yrs. ago, I have come to understand 1 overriding principle. There isn't a Christian I know, including my wife and children, that believe exactly as I believe, on every doctrine or issue.

So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.

Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:

1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.

2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.

3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.

4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )

Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:

6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )

7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.

8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )

9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.

10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.

Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)

13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.

14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION

18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

20 Christ's return is imminent.

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE
This is going to get you in trouble, but I agree on all points except tongues. I believe tongues have ceased. I would also add to #10 in that God has preserved His word for us today in the KJV.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,063
2,083
113
#4
16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.
Other than this mistaken idea, I would be in agreement with your beliefs.

Since God desires the salvation of all humanity, then according to your belief, He would choose all, and give everyone saving faith. But since that is not the case, then faith comes by hearing the Gospel, and responding to the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,376
567
113
#5
Other than this mistaken idea, I would be in agreement with your beliefs.

Since God desires the salvation of all humanity, then according to your belief, He would choose all, and give everyone saving faith. But since that is not the case, then faith comes by hearing the Gospel, and responding to the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit.
I didn’t see this as a Calvinist view. I took it as God chooses us because we’re in His Son because we believed the gospel of His Son. I also believe that God gives everyone a degree of faith to believe the gospel. Some believe, some reject.
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
338
83
#6
1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.
Yes


2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.
Yes


3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.
Yes


4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.
Yes


5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )
Yes, but I don't think we need Grace to believe this, we only need a true act of Faith


6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )
I do not see God the Father and Holy Spirit as persons, but as Supreme Spirit Beings. My spirit and your spirit are not persons. And the Bible does not clarify they are persons. The only person we have ever seen in both Testaments, is who we know as I AM. But I do believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, just not as persons, but as Spiritual Beings. Which the Bible does indicate both the Father and Holy Spirit are in Spiritual (not physical) form.


7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.
Yes


8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )
You could blaspheme the Holy Spirit and find out if you can lose it, but other than that, I agree


9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.
Jesus was baptized to show the importance of it. But a death bed confession would be like the thief on the cross


10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.
Yes


11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.
The Old Testament Hebrews maybe, but after Christ died and resurrected, there were no difference between Jew/Gentile.


12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)
Yes


13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.
Yes, along with also being physical


14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.
Yes


15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.
Yes


16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.
Yes


17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION
Yes


18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.
Some believe it has ceased and have used Paul to make this claim. However, if you read Paul's Greek hand written letter (or the translation of it), you will discover his use of tongues ceasing refers to peoples languages, not about the gift of the Holy Spirit. And I believe Tongues (the gift) is still active to this very day.


19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.
That is not what Jesus said in Matthew, also found in Mark and Luke. He said the Elect will go through the Tribulation. And the days will be shortened for the Elect's sake. And said, after the sun darkens and moon turns to blood (after Tribulation ends this will take place), He will appear and His angels will gather the Elect. Therefore, I believe what God said, Post-Trib.


20 Christ's return is imminent.
Yes
 
Oct 12, 2012
1,477
866
113
63
#7
Since becoming a born again Child of God, some 25 yrs. ago, I have come to understand 1 overriding principle. There isn't a Christian I know, including my wife and children, that believe exactly as I believe, on every doctrine or issue.

So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.

Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:

1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.

2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.

3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.

4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )

Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:

6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )

7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.

8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )

9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.

10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.

Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)

13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.

14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION

18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

20 Christ's return is imminent.

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE
I don't agree with 6, and half of a couple more, but on a few of these the language may be part of the problem! 😋
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
2,329
908
113
#8
Hmm hope you find your twin/clone. So you wouldnt consider your wife to be your sister in the Lord??
When you go to church, or if you do go, you dont think of other believers as your brothers and sisters???

I think am only iffy about 3 of your points so could I be your sister?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,319
1,582
113
#10
#14 only. I don't see the angels as having semen.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,614
2,637
113
#11
Hmm hope you find your twin/clone. So you wouldnt consider your wife to be your sister in the Lord??
When you go to church, or if you do go, you dont think of other believers as your brothers and sisters???

I think am only iffy about 3 of your points so could I be your sister?

Umm... Not sure you read correctly. Those that believe the 1st 5, which would certainly include my wife, ARE Brethren.

But certainly glad you're my sister!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,614
2,637
113
#12
The impetus of this thread is NOT to say " Look at all the differences we have with each other".

The point is most of us on CC believe the 1st 5. VERY few threads are made disputing the 1st 5, with the exception of an occasional one about Christ's deity.

It's OK for us debate and get passionate about the rest of the list, as long we recognize we ARE brothers and sisters in Christ, and that the love we should have for one another should overrule our passion.


OOh! Thought of another.

21. We are NOT promised a healthy and wealthy EARTHLY life. Although the Lord certainly CAN give us both within His Will.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
4,667
1,547
113
#13
Well Penn since i became a Christian 30 odd years ago i don't think i have ever met anyone who believes exactly as i do too.. I will go through your list and see where we disagree..

My replies in Purple..


1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.

Amen

2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.

Amen

3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.

Amen

4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

Amen

5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )

Well since Jesus is God it is also correct to say He raised himself from the dead.. :)

Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:

6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )

Well i quote this verse and state that i believe it:: 1 John 5: KJV 7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."


7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.

Amen


8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )

Salvation can be rejected after one has formerly accepted.. This is what is called falling away from the truth, In the end times we are told there will be a falling away..

9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.

Amen


10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.

I believe the KJV Bible is the inspired Word of God..

Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.

I am surprised you consider belief in OSAS to affect ones salvation.. And that the belief about water baptisim is essential to salvation.. I consider then disputable matters that do not effect ones salvation no matter what side of the issue one stands..

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

I believe the only Way of salvation is by believing Jesus and trusting in the atonement He secured for our salvation.. There is no other way for Jews or gentiles to be saved..


12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)

I believe the Bible is a mixture of literal and symbolic.. Oh and i believe most false doctrines i have come across use a lot of Symbolic interpretations of a lot of literal scriptures.


13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.

Amen


14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

Amen

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

Amen

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

I believe God convicts people by the power of His Holy Spirit but in the end each individual must choose to accept the will of God or resist the will of God.. I believe god foreknows all who will resist and all who will accept And he has known it since the time of creation..

17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION

Amen

18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.

Amen

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

I believe the rapture will happen on the day of the second coming of our LORD Jesus Christ.. So no pre-tribulation rapture with me..

20 Christ's return is imminent.

I believe it will be within the next 20 years.. probably more then 8 and less then 12..
Well a good number of things in agreement.. A few with modifications.. And a few we disagree on.. That's what i have found over the last 20 years on Christian forums..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
4,667
1,547
113
#14
21. We are NOT promised a healthy and wealthy EARTHLY life. Although the Lord certainly CAN give us both within His Will.
Amen
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,614
2,637
113
#15
Well Penn since i became a Christian 30 odd years ago i don't think i have ever met anyone who believes exactly as i do too.. I will go through your list and see where we disagree..

My replies in Purple..



Well a good number of things in agreement.. A few with modifications.. And a few we disagree on.. That's what i have found over the last 20 years on Christian forums..

Disagreement on the non core issues is fine, but misunderstanding me on if they are absolutely necessary is not. May be my error for faulty wording.

Necessity of believing OSAS - falls into the I'm not sure category. To be clear, I believe in OSAS.

Water Baptism in the sense that those who believe it is necessary I'm not sure . To be clear, I DON'T believe it is necessary.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
4,667
1,547
113
#16
Disagreement on the non core issues is fine, but misunderstanding me on if they are absolutely necessary is not. May be my error for faulty wording.

Necessity of believing OSAS - falls into the I'm not sure category. To be clear, I believe in OSAS.

Water Baptism in the sense that those who believe it is necessary I'm not sure . To be clear, I DON'T believe it is necessary.
Well having thought some more.. If they think Water baptisim is nessecary for salvation then that is pushing a Work into the mix of grace.. So i will correct my point on that one.. and agree with you 100%
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,614
2,637
113
#17
Well having thought some more.. If they think Water baptisim is nessecary for salvation then that is pushing a Work into the mix of grace.. So i will correct my point on that one.. and agree with you 100%
Am I to understand that you would put Eternal Security belief into the top 5 MUST believes?
 
Mar 14, 2011
60,161
7,418
113
#18
I have one disagreement, and 2 i am mixed on although 1 i am more against then for and Crossnote makes a compelling argument
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
4,667
1,547
113
#20
Am I to understand that you would put Eternal Security belief into the top 5 MUST believes?
No.. I do not believe ones belief or not in regard to the 5 calvinist doctrines of which eternal security is one has any baring in ones salvation..

I don't believe in eternal security as i probably have already stated..