Is there such a thing as an atheist?

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Aug 25, 2013
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Well God is real whether we believe He exists or not. "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes...
Doesn't this mean God's attributes are not visible to the world?

Spokenpassage said:
... His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." (Romans 1:20 NASB)
Some people believe aliens built the pyramids and they think the evidence of this is "without excuse."

Have you read On The Nature of the Gods by Cicero? If not then perhaps you should. It might be an eye opener. It would become clear to you that many of the arguments you employ to demonstrate God to yourself, Cicero used to demonstrate the existence of the gods to his own readers.

Spokenpassage said:
Unbelievers most likely either come to try destroying the faith...
No doubt this is the intent of some.

Spokenpassage said:
... or display their "knowledge"...
It would be better to say we come to correct misunderstandings. It is not about showing off knowledge.

Spokenpassage said:
I must ask you cycel, do you believe that you are a good person?
Yes.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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no such thing as atheist just people in denial..
There's no such thing as theists, just people in denial.

My statement above is based on the old aphorism, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." Of course there really are theists -- you are one; and there really are atheists -- I am one.
 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
Doesn't this mean God's attributes are not visible to the world?
It's saying that the invisible things of Him is clearly seen in creation. Creation reveals God exists and He is powerful, and that man is obligated to knowing His existence and obligated to Him personally. Maybe some atheists think people who automatically know there is a God is being ignorant of not wanting to see the "odds". Actually it should come to a person naturally, because it is perfectly natural, even a child would believe. :)

Some people believe aliens built the pyramids and they think the evidence of this is "without excuse."

Have you read On The Nature of the Gods by Cicero? If not then perhaps you should. It might be an eye opener. It would become clear to you that many of the arguments you employ to demonstrate God to yourself, Cicero used to demonstrate the existence of the gods to his own readers.
Overall, you will find it common that man sometimes puts at least one god above the others in their polytheistic belief. You can find through their mythological stories. Not all since some worshipped stone and wood, nature and creation. Does this mean there is more than one God? No, we read again in Romans 1:20 that it becomes evident of that there is a Master Designer and that He is powerful. His divine nature was made evident.

One of things God gave man, was the conscience. God wrote the law on man's heart (Romans 2:14-15). Of course if a man continually rejects his conscience and sears it that it becomes reprobated. God leaves a man to his own sin because of his rebellion (Romans 1:21-32). Again His divine nature was made evident.

No doubt this is the intent of some.


It would be better to say we come to correct misunderstandings. It is not about showing off knowledge.


Yes.
I know that you are an atheist, but do you know he Ten commandments by heart?

Maybe you are here for the correction instead?
 
J

Jda016

Guest
Prophecy fulfilled later in the bible is not a peophecy. All it shows is that who ever wrote the latter book had read the earlier one.
Would you please openly and honestly look at this prophecy?

Ezekiel 37:21-22
New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

6 prophecies are spoken of here. 5 of them are fulfilled and the 6th will be also, but time has not confirmed it yet (they will never be divided again).

Jews from all over the world received their nation again in the exact same spot as it was before and were no longer divided between Israel and Judah in 1948. They are ruled over by one king (prime minister).

I'd also remind you it was prophesied that the Jews would be scattered over all the earth, yet not assimilated Into other cultures and countries and most every other defeated people have been.

To the athiest, what is this? I imagine it would simply have to be coincidence, correct?
 
J

Jda016

Guest
B. I want to raise a couple of points. First, my comment about the biblical passage Genesis 1:14, “And God said, ‘Let their be lights in the expanse of the sky....’ ” This doesn’t sound like magic to you? I imagine a robed and gray-beared sky god spreading his arms, and in a deep, resonating voice speaking the words “Let their be lights in the expanse of the sky,” and suddenly the sun and moon appear. Again I ask you, that’s not magic?

I put forward the possibility that the Bronze Age author of the text had no idea what else to say. It’s been suggested that he never named the “lights” because the surrounding peoples worshipped the sun and moon as gods, and he didn’t want to give those heavenly bodies any more mention than was necessary.

I will ask one more time, does this passage not ring with magic? His mere words alone were enough for the sun and moon to appear in the sky. No other creative mechanism is even hinted at, and so often I have heard that indeed, God’s word alone was enough for the creative act to occur. Magic!


A. Now on to “a universe from nothing,” which is actually the title of a book by Lawrence Krauss. Is the universe truly from nothing? Doseofreality asks, “Why do people assume the big bang came from nothing?? Nothing doesn't go Bang.”

I want to take you back to 1916. Einstein predicted that year that large gravitational fields should magnify objects behind them. The proof came ten years later when a distant galaxy was photographed with two smaller galaxies on either side of it. Those two galaxies were identical to one another because they were images of a more distant galaxy hidden behind the galaxy at the centre of the trio. We all understand that a lens magnifies images and the phenomena photographed in 1926 is called gravitational lensing, but how does it work? Einstein predicted that the space around a massive object would be warped. The lens, in this instance, is simply warped space. Think about that for a moment. The only thing magnifying the distant galaxy is empty, warped space. We think of empty space as containing nothing, of being a void, so what is there to warp? It must be space it self. We think of empty space as nothingness but in fact it must be something. As Krauss says in his book, “nothing is something.” In this instance space must behave as a fabric that can be twisted and distorted so as to act as a lens. This is not something we can grasp in our every day experience, but we can show it through observation and experimentation.

Though the Big Bang may appear to come from nothing, in this case nothing likely is again something, that we don’t yet understand. Physics, at least, is working toward an understanding, a greater understanding than is found in the simple words, “And God said, ‘Let there be...’”
B.

When I flip the light switch on in my room, light suddenly appears. I understand that electricity has something to do with it, but I have no idea of all the intricacies that make it work.

Just because I don't understand the intricacies of God's power, doesn't mean I don't believe that he can make light come forth by the power of his word.

Electricity appears as magic to primitives because they don't understand it, yet just because someone doesn't understand it, doesn't mean that it's magic. You may not understand how God could create life from his word, but that doesn't mean that it is magic. Do you see where I am coming from?

A.

ok, so the scientist proposes that "nothing is actually something." So the Big Bang (which high school text books tells us came from nothing) actually came from something... that is nothing...?

Im sorry, but I feel we are jumping through a lot of hoops here to get the Big Bang to stand on its own two feet...that apparently came from "nothing-something."
 
J

Jda016

Guest
And this is to all the athiests on this thread:


I believe in a creator, whose son is Jesus. I love him with all my heart.


I realize you do not believe this and I accept that. I can't change your mind. Only God can. I pray his love, mercy, and grace would be revealed to all of you, for I desire your blessing, peace, and salvation.


I loathe the way other people, who call themselves Christians, have treated you by calling you all sorts of horrible names. On behalf of their wrong doing I repent to you all and am deeply sorry for the hatred that has been sown against you.

May you each find grace and peace in the times of your troubles.

May God reveal himself to you and make His face shine upon you.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.” (Genesis 1:20)

Genesis 1:20 tells us that God made sea creatures and birds in abundance. I agree.
I have an image in my mind of the abundance of life on the Serengeti, though apparently many of those populations are now in decline. In North America herds of buffalo stretched across the plains as far as the eye could see, and passenger pigeons existed in the billions. There is evidence the Valley of the Nile and the Fertile Crescent also once were home to that same abundance. It's no longer the case, but in paleolithic times huge herds still roamed those areas. They were truly a paradise for paleolithic hunter-gathers. Bronze age hunters and farmers destroyed that abundance, but the memory of it remained, and so ancient peoples looked back on times of former paradise and reflected on it in their myths.

Sea food continues to be harvested in abundance as it has been for centuries. Many fish remain in the oceans. Birds exist in abundance even in large cities.
I think not. Nl, have a look at John Terborgh's Where Have all the Birds Gone? In the last eighty years the bird population of North America has gone into a severe decline. What is present now is only a shadow of what once existed. You don't know what's disappeared because you never saw what once was there. It's not just about numbers of birds, it is more about the numerous species that have simply disappeared. Fisheries are also in severe decline in many areas. The loss of lobster habitat is also becoming widespread. Check out dead zones. Dead zone (ecology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are tales of the density of fish being so great off the Grand Banks that fishing vessels were slowed by the friction. When I was a kid in the 1950s we were shown films in school by the National Film Board of Canada of the abundant cod fisheries. Now the cod stocks are depleted.

Nl, anyone in biblical antiquity, who was literate, could have written the words found in the Genesis creation account. There really is nothing there that requires inspiration by God. As I’ve said to others, the account – when examined closely – reveals an ancient cosmology that looks very much like the one described by the Babylonians. It looks nothing like the universe we all accept today. Below is a diagram of the world as described in Genesis 1.


 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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Cycel, I don't know if you will appreciate this and most Christians that I have said this to do not think much of it, but I think that the six day creation was symbolic. I think that it happened in six days literally, but I think the symbolism is more important. The separation of waters on the second day, I believe, was symbolic of the separation of the Israelites during the 1,000-2000 year period. They were placed above the rest of the world, so to speak, and became God's chosen people. I believe that the third day represents the law and God telling them not to mix with the other nations. The fourth day would represent the coming of Jesus. I am not sure what the moon is, but it may be Satan as it was made to govern the darkness. I believe Jesus was born around 4,150 years after Adam but I am having trouble getting to that number using the old testament. I can get to Solomon pretty easily at about 3,150 years, but it gets a little more difficult after that.

Also you may know more about this than I do, but the Jewish year is 5774. The Gregorian Calendar says that it is 2014. No matter how I do it this does not add up. So one or both calendars are wrong. If Jesus was born 4,000 years after Adam and you add 2014 you get 6,014. I think Jesus was born later than that. So if you add 4150 to 2014 you get 6164. You get somewhere between a 240 year difference and a 390 year difference. Someone's calendar is wrong.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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Cycel, I don't know if you will appreciate this and most Christians that I have said this to do not think much of it, but I think that the six day creation was symbolic. I think that it happened in six days literally, but I think the symbolism is more important. The separation of waters on the second day, I believe, was symbolic of the separation of the Israelites during the 1,000-2000 year period. They were placed above the rest of the world, so to speak, and became God's chosen people. I believe that the third day represents the law and God telling them not to mix with the other nations. The fourth day would represent the coming of Jesus. I am not sure what the moon is, but it may be Satan as it was made to govern the darkness. I believe Jesus was born around 4,150 years after Adam but I am having trouble getting to that number using the old testament. I can get to Solomon pretty easily at about 3,150 years, but it gets a little more difficult after that.

Also you may know more about this than I do, but the Jewish year is 5774. The Gregorian Calendar says that it is 2014. No matter how I do it this does not add up. So one or both calendars are wrong. If Jesus was born 4,000 years after Adam and you add 2014 you get 6,014. I think Jesus was born later than that. So if you add 4150 to 2014 you get 6164. You get somewhere between a 240 year difference and a 390 year difference. Someone's calendar is wrong.
To be more precise I would say that the separation happened between the 1050 and 2100 year period and that day four would have ended in 4200. From what I've seen the day periods would have been in 1050 year increments. Of course, this has nothing to do with salvation, but I do find it interesting.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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Anyone who believes in God, I think would probably agree that He could have made everything all at once, so why did He take six days to do it. Because it is symbolic.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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And this is to all the athiests on this thread:
...
I loathe the way other people, who call themselves Christians, have treated you by calling you all sorts of horrible names. On behalf of their wrong doing I repent to you all and am deeply sorry for the hatred that has been sown against you.

May you each find grace and peace in the times of your troubles.

May God reveal himself to you and make His face shine upon you.
Amen. Amen. Amen.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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While I am telling you about this I would like to add that the second set of three days builds off of the first set up three days.

Day 1 Light..........................................................................Day 4 Sun, Moon, Stars
Day 2 Separation of waters (Vertical).....................................Day 5 Birds and Water creatures
Day3 Separation of waters (Horizontal)Land appears...............Day 6 Animals and Man
 
Jan 18, 2014
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And this is to all the athiests on this thread:


I believe in a creator, whose son is Jesus. I love him with all my heart.


I realize you do not believe this and I accept that. I can't change your mind. Only God can. I pray his love, mercy, and grace would be revealed to all of you, for I desire your blessing, peace, and salvation.


I loathe the way other people, who call themselves Christians, have treated you by calling you all sorts of horrible names. On behalf of their wrong doing I repent to you all and am deeply sorry for the hatred that has been sown against you.

May you each find grace and peace in the times of your troubles.

May God reveal himself to you and make His face shine upon you.
Thank you for your kind words. Though I must confess surprise that spoken says amen here yet promises punishment eternal in an earlier post. Allow me for one second to give you my outlook.

The human race are insignificant little creatures on an insignificant little rock in space. At some point, that rock is going to become uninhabitable for the creatures. After that, the sun which warms it and makes life possible is going to burn all it's fuel and become and start to grow and shed it's material. Obliterating the closer planets and making life here as impossible as mercury is today. Excluding the possibility that our galaxy doesn't crash into another spewing planetary systems in all directions including into the supermassive black hole at it's centre. But of course we may never see any of this due to the countless asteroids being hurled around space, the output from a passing pulsar or many other fatal interactions with our planet or system. But chances are, that none of this will affect me as I will be long dead. At any moment if my fleeting existence, my life could come to a end. When it does, there will be no judgement, no consciousness, no thoughts, just the biological machine shutting down and then.... nothing. `Not even an endless dark, just nothing.

So you may ask, why do I bother to live? Well I live everyday preciously because this is all I have. I try to make what I can in the world a little better because I want it to be here long enough for my children to see it and experience all the things I have. Because that's al they will have.

From what I see, the majority of devout Christians spend their lives preparing for the end of days which thay all predict will happen soon. Please look at this article:

List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The antichrist had been born and was massing his armies from around 375 AD. It's now over 1800 years later. He really is taking his time. Or maybe.....just maybe. The scriptures are wrong! So they predicted a couple of things right over the millenia, even a stopped clock shows the right time twice a day!

Live each day as precious.
Teach you children by your mistakes and those of your Generation.
Look logically at our planet an how much life it can support.

We may one day move into space and colonise other worlds, but even that will be the intergalactic equivalent of sitting on our own doorstep.

So in summery. I have tried many times to see the world through your eyes. Now wy don't you try to see it through mine. There isn't enough empathy in this world.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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The Big Bang explains the origin of the universe.
Only if you believe the fairy story of evolution, otherwise the big bang explains nothing other than a failed attempt to sidestep the real truth.
 
Sep 14, 2013
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Yes, I remember. I've had all the same accusations hurled at me, but not by everyone.


This was a fellow calling wrath down upon atheists in general, or did he verbally insult you? I must say, I haven't seen many of this sort where I live.
He stopped me in the street to talk about god. Then in kind of spiralled from there.

It's never been an issue before. No one is really religious here, but lately there's been a lot of people knocking on doors and hollering in the town centre. Nobody really takes them seriously, they are just a nuisance.
 
Sep 14, 2013
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Would you please openly and honestly look at this prophecy?

Ezekiel 37:21-22
New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

6 prophecies are spoken of here. 5 of them are fulfilled and the 6th will be also, but time has not confirmed it yet (they will never be divided again).

Jews from all over the world received their nation again in the exact same spot as it was before and were no longer divided between Israel and Judah in 1948. They are ruled over by one king (prime minister).

I'd also remind you it was prophesied that the Jews would be scattered over all the earth, yet not assimilated Into other cultures and countries and most every other defeated people have been.

To the athiest, what is this? I imagine it would simply have to be coincidence, correct?
I've commented on this many many times. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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I am sorry, but I don’t accept the claim that God inspired the writing. The account is very clearly an ancient cosmology. The proof of this is in the pudding.
There is that 'I' again as though it has some special insight into the mind of God. The proof of this is the multiple 'I's you are so fond of.

Let me regale you with this little 'I'......

Matthew 4:9 The devil said to him, "I will give all this to you, if you will bow down and worship me."

Matthew 11:24 So I tell you that on the day of judgment the people of Sodom will get off easier than you.

'I' is a very dangerous word when it is the sum total of anyone's existence as it seems to be with you. The reason why society is in moral free-fall is due to the fact that 'we' and 'us' has been replaced with 'I' and 'I' has become the sum total of all things to our detriment.

What this means is that good judgment has been replaced with bad decisions that demand what is good for 'I' is the only consideration and this creates a problem as you have to decide what 'I' takes precedent over another 'I' and when the 'I' who misses out doesn't like the fact, it usually means violence.

So I would suggest that you do not put too much faith in 'I' as it will create your downfall eventually as 'I' has a very limited life span.
 
Jan 18, 2014
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Only if you believe the fairy story of evolution, otherwise the big bang explains nothing other than a failed attempt to sidestep the real truth.
Hi Mustapha.

I gather you are a teacher? Albert Einstein once famously said that If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough.

Could you please explain the Big Bang Theory and any other scientific origin theorems as you understand them.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Hi Mustapha.

I gather you are a teacher? Albert Einstein once famously said that If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough.

Could you please explain the Big Bang Theory and any other scientific origin theorems as you understand them.
God spoke and bang there it was and is.