JESUITS ZIONISTS & CHRISTIAN DISPENSATIONALISTS

[michael56]

Michael you think that "They shall look on him whom they pierced" is a future event... it's not. John tells us that was fulfilled on the day Jesus died.

Joh 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Joh 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Joh 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

So all of the following took place the day Jesus died at Calvary?

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] of grace and supplication. They will look on[SUP][b][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. [SUP]11 [/SUP]On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, [SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, [SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.Zech 12:10-14

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Michael you think that "They shall look on him whom they pierced" is a future event... it's not. John tells us that was fulfilled on the day Jesus died.

Joh 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Joh 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Joh 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Yep paul said that the restoration, salvation and return was a future event. Until that time, they would be blinded in part. what part of that do you not understand?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So all of the following took place the day Jesus died at Calvary?

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] of grace and supplication. They will look on[SUP][b][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. [SUP]11 [/SUP]On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, [SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, [SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.Zech 12:10-14

lol.. Most jews praised God on that day, the heretic Jesus was gone, and could not hurt them anymore.

Your right, That is future, because it has never happened in the history since Christ died.

 

[KJV1611]

So all of the following took place the day Jesus died at Calvary?

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] of grace and supplication. They will look on[SUP][b][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. [SUP]11 [/SUP]On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, [SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, [SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.Zech 12:10-14

Of course it already happened. What part do think hasn't happened?

 

[michael56]

Of course it already happened. What part do think hasn't happened?

LoL, that is spoken of directly after all the nations of the earth will attack Israel and be defeated. This is what follows, when did this happen?

Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord[SUP][b][/SUP] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.[SUP]20 [/SUP]On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[SUP][c][/SUP] in the house of the Lord Almighty. Zech 14:16-21

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course it already happened. What part do think hasn't happened?

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] of grace and supplication. They will look on[SUP][b][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. [SUP]11 [/SUP]On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. [SUP]12[/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, [SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, [SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.Zech 12:10-14

the bolded parts did not happen. in fact, the opposite happened as Christ hung on the cross. thats why in 70 AD, they were destroyed and scattered all over the world.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LoL, that is spoken of directly after all the nations of the earth will attack Israel and be defeated. This is what follows, when did this happen?

Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord[SUP][b][/SUP] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.[SUP]20 [/SUP]On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[SUP][c][/SUP] in the house of the Lord Almighty. Zech 14:16-21

thats why we must symbolise these prophesies to make them come true. because they did not literally come true, in order for them to be right.

sorry, Like you, I take Gods prophesies literally.

 

[KJV1611]

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] of grace and supplication.

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow

They will look on[SUP][b][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced,

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Joh 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Joh 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. [SUP]11 [/SUP]On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. [SUP]12[/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, [SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, [SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.Zech 12:10-14

Luk 23:27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

 

[crossnote]

It's a very simple question,it is a YES OR NO question,Jewish Christians are part of Israel,Do they who are believers LOSE the land promise?

That's a good question. My thinking is that those Jews who come to their Messiah in this dispensation of the Church will receive a better 'land' promise. So no, they will not lose it but gain an even better promise.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow



Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Joh 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Joh 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Luk 23:27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

spirit of grace and supplication is not allowing a roman army to destroy your city and sanctuary 40 years later.

That passage said ALL of isreal will weep. not just a few.

nice try,, but you do not win the prize.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's a good question. My thinking is that those Jews who come to their Messiah in this dispensation of the Church will receive a better 'land' promise. So no, they will not lose it but gain an even better promise.

I agree, as it was said earlier in scripture. they looked not for the physical. but the eternal.

what good is the physical. if you lose out on the eternal.

 

[KJV1611]

spirit of grace and supplication is not allowing a roman army to destroy your city and sanctuary 40 years later.

That passage said ALL of isreal will weep. not just a few.

nice try,, but you do not win the prize.

The description of the time of grace and supplication that you say will come to physical Israel continues on into chapter 13.

Zec 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Jesus is the fountain of living water and rivers of living water flow out of the believers belly. This is not future.

Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
In AD 70 Jesus cut off the names of all Israel's idols and caused the prophets and unclean spirits to pass out of the land. This is not future.

Zec 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
This is the glorious day when all Jews will be redeemed? Why then would the mother and father thrust their sons through?

Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
In that glorious day the prophets are going to be ashamed of his vision.

Zec 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
This is a prophecy of Jesus coming the first time.

Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
This is too.

Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
In that glorious day is the sword going to smite the shepherd and scatter the sheep?

Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
In that glorious day are 2 parts going to be cut off and die?

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
The physical Jews right now and back in Jesus time that called on his name were heard and were saved.

None of Zechariah chapter 12 or 13 is future. This is the prophecy of the kingdom being taken away from physical Israel forever.

 

[KJV1611]

That's a good question. My thinking is that those Jews who come to their Messiah in this dispensation of the Church will receive a better 'land' promise. So no, they will not lose it but gain an even better promise.

Crossnote what is a dispensation of the church?

 

[Sophia]

The administration (dispensing/ministry/dispensation) of grace is not a time period.
It is a process. The process of grace was the mystery under the Old Covenant, but was revealed to mankind through Christ.
"This dispensation" is not referring to a separate time period. That is a definitional misunderstanding.
"This dispensation" is referring to the way that Grace is administered through Faith and not works,
and unto all men, not just genetic descendents of the Patriarchs/converts to the culture of Isreal.

Why else does the section speak of "by Grace, through Faith, not of works" and then go on to describe the way Grace is administered to the elect? Because it is all one coherent thought, not a new topic.

 

[Sophia]

Is it the Church that is dispensed, or is it Grace that is dispensed?
The dispensation is of God's Grace, which always flowed unto the faithful. But it was a mystery prior to the coming of Christ and the revealing of the Spirit.
There are different Covenant periods, but only one "dispensation": Grace dispensed upon Believers, from the days of Adam until the Last Day and beyond.

 

[crossnote]

Crossnote what is a dispensation of the church?

Ephesians 3:2-10
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

After this Church dispensation, God turns back to direct dealing with Israel. Hence great trib., millennium etc.

 

[KJV1611]

Ephesians 3:2-10
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

After this Church dispensation, God turns back to direct dealing with Israel. Hence great trib., millennium etc.

Crossnote the way I read it it's the dispensation of grace not the dispensation of the church. Grace is hidden in the Old Testament and it's sometimes hard to see, but all the Old Testament saints were saved by grace as were Gentiles during that time. I don't see a time in history when anyone was ever saved by anything other than grace, hence the dispensation of grace has been going on since Adam.

 

[Vernon]

In the book of Revelation John writes of the 144,000 sealed, 12,000 from each tribe of the children of Israel. Certainly from this scripture it is obvious that God is not finished with the children of Israel.

God will accomplish every promise he has made, and I would be the first to plead ignorance on how he will do so, but I know he will do so because he has said he will do so.

" .... And they shall look unto me whom they have pierced; and they mourn for him. ..." Zechariah 12:10

 

[michael56]

None of Zechariah chapter 12 or 13 is future. This is the prophecy of the kingdom being taken away from physical Israel forever.

The days are coming,” declares the Lord,“when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.[SUP][f][/SUP]

“They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
[SUP]15[/SUP]I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,”

says the Lord your God
Amos9: 13-15

When in your view did this take place?

 

[Ukorin]

The days are coming,” declares the Lord,“when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.[SUP][f][/SUP]

“They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
[SUP]15[/SUP]I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,”

says the Lord your God
Amos9: 13-15

When in your view did this take place?

just like the prophecies of Christ coming to heal the sick and give sight to the blind, which are alongside and in the same breath as prophecies about the Millennial reign and restoration of all things,
this prophecy is split between the return of exiles (fulfilled BC) and also the 2nd Coming of Christ, dealing with a "New Land".

Remember that the Return to the land is dealing with the Remnant. All those outside of the Remnant are "cut off" from Israel.
In this, all Israel will be saved.
The saved outside are grafted in, and the unsaved inside are cut off. End result is a saved whole.