Jesus or Paul?

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garee

Banned
#101
Mar 28, 2016
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#101
resurrection33 said:
Jesus told us . Was Paul doing that when he told women not to speak in church (1 Cor 14:33-36)?
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To love our neighbors as ourselves. Why would they refuse to love their neighbor in that way (obeying the commandment) ? How would that bring glory to God?
 
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oldethennew

Banned
#102
Feb 28, 2016
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#102
causing contention among the brethren has to be so very grievous to our Father...
and obviously to those who serve Him...

we have to look at the cause and know that the future effects must only bring
new enlightenment for the 'true-seekers...

it's always about the 'heart' and its desires...
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#103
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#103
resurrection33 said:
Jesus told us to love our neighbors as ourselves. Was Paul doing that when he told women not to speak in church (1 Cor 14:33-36)?
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This was a particular occasion most likely addressing problems at Corinth.

Do you have any other problems with what Paul wrote about other issues or doctrine?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#104
Dec 12, 2013
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#104
resurrection33 said:
You constantly lift up the Bible. The Bible is just the instruction book. You don't seem to have gotten to know the Lord.
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MAN...this so reeks of ignorance....the bible is the MIND of CHRIST and is to be lifted up.......

ALL scripture is INSPIRED and profitable
JUDE..defend the faith (system of teaching) one delivered
GOD has magnified his WORD above his VERY NAME

I can post all day long scripture like the above....do you even study?
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#105
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
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#105
res,

your unkind 'baiting' and 'mocking' of those who Love our Heavenly Father
will not go un-noticed!
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#106
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#106
dcontroversal said:
Take it up with the Lord...he is the one who set the qualifications for a pastor/deacon in the scriptures.....Paul's writings were inspired, end of story...They have a place and have been misunderstood, misapplied and or flat rejected out of ignorance....

Paul is not saying that a woman cannot speak in church......and the two offices found pastor and deacon have particular qualifications set by God....even in the OT God had set qualifications that had to be met for a priest, Nazarite etc...

End of story regardless of who dislikes and or dismisses these truths......
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I believe that men sometimes try to make a law by the letter of Paul's word.à I don't believe Paul would have stood for it. And actually, I believe Paul meant, by the husband of one wife, that they were not to have multiple wives at once, which was the culture. And if you make Paul's words into law and letter, you have a lot of problems even though they are overlooked. Any man who has a child who goes astray is immediately disqualified from his position because of what Paul said if you make it into letter and law. And then you face the problem of God's word being rejected for Paul's words made into law because God said the sins of the child would not be held against the father. It immediately gets convoluted when you try to make laws by the letter and place men under them once again. The new way is by the Spirit. But men have a bent toward making it about law.
 
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garee

Banned
#107
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#107
resurrection33 said:
No. The Lord is a living being like us. You need to get to know him. That includes constant prayer (1 Thess 5:17).
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God is not a man as us.He remains supernatural ,which is without nature, (a beginning of days and end of Spirit life). And yes He must increase as we decrease, its why we pray without ceasing, until His word ,the incorruptible seed forms Christ in us..
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#108
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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#108
So they can speak, they just can't ask a question? This is making Paul's words into a law and making it about the letter and about yoking men anew.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#109
Dec 12, 2013
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#109
Stunnedbygrace said:
I believe that men sometimes try to make a law by the letter of Paul's word.à I don't believe Paul would have stood for it. And actually, I believe Paul meant, by the husband of one wife, that they were not to have multiple wives at once, which was the culture. And if you make Paul's words into law and letter, you have a lot of problems even though they are overlooked. Any man who has a child who goes astray is immediately disqualified from his position because of what Paul said if you make it into letter and law. And then you face the problem of God's word being rejected for Paul's words made into law because God said the sins of the child would not be held against the father. It immediately gets convoluted when you try to make laws by the letter and place men under them once again. The new way is by the Spirit. But men have a bent toward making it about law.
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I don't believe that at all.....the qualifications set are set for a reason...not to be bent, twisted and or looked to in bias....
the office represents Christ and the qualifications are not set and dry by underpinned by other truths....for example...the rebellious child thing...

If a man cannot take care of his house/children....how can he possibly take care of God's own house or a church if you will

The one wife at a time....sure...and qualified under the death of the spouse........

AGAIN...who are we to push the line on what God has set in his word....either Paul was inspired and the word is valid or almost half your N.T. needs to be ripped out and burnt or put next to the toilet.....

By the way...not mad or mouthy so don't take it that way.....just dia-logos
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#110
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#110
I guess this probably won't go over very well then:

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#111
Dec 19, 2009
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#111
dcontroversal said:
This view reeks of ignorance and DECEPTION....GOD set the qualifications of priests, Nazarites, prophets, deacons and pastors.....and PAUL did NOT tell women NOT speak in church...HOW ABOUT POST THE REST of the verse in CONTEXT instead of ripping it in half to deceptively make a false point that is contrary to the truth!
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Insulting me isn't going to get you anywhere.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#112
Dec 19, 2009
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#112
garee said:
To love our neighbors as ourselves. Why would they refuse to love their neighbor in that way (obeying the commandment) ? How would that bring glory to God?
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My point was that you don't love your neighbor as yourself when you order them not to speak at church.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#113
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#113
oldethennew said:
causing contention among the brethren has to be so very grievous to our Father...
and obviously to those who serve Him...

we have to look at the cause and know that the future effects must only bring
new enlightenment for the 'true-seekers...

it's always about the 'heart' and its desires...
Click to expand...
People need to be taught that obedience is a good thing, not a bad thing.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#114
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#114
Locutus said:
This was a particular occasion most likely addressing problems at Corinth.

Do you have any other problems with what Paul wrote about other issues or doctrine?
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I don't think it's wise to read things into the Bible.

Paul also demanded women be subordinate to men, another example of his failing to love his neighbor as himself. Also, when he tells us to obey public officials: Were Germans supposed to kill Jews when ordered to by Hitler?

Paul was a great man but he wasn't perfect.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#115
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#115
resurrection33 said:
Insulting me isn't going to get you anywhere.
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Ignorance is not a bad word....means you don't know
Deceptive is to leave off the rest of the verse and context to make your point valid....

Did you do the latter on purpose? If not I apologize.....

So....what about the rest of the context and verse?
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#116
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#116
dcontroversal said:
MAN...this so reeks of ignorance....the bible is the MIND of CHRIST and is to be lifted up.......

ALL scripture is INSPIRED and profitable
JUDE..defend the faith (system of teaching) one delivered
GOD has magnified his WORD above his VERY NAME

I can post all day long scripture like the above....do you even study?
Click to expand...
Once again, insulting me doesn't get us anywhere. You need to get to know the Lord. This is done, in part, by constant prayer (1 Thess 5:17). You aren't the great man you seem to think you are.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#117
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#117
oldethennew said:
res,

your unkind 'baiting' and 'mocking' of those who Love our Heavenly Father
will not go un-noticed!
Click to expand...
I am baiting no one, and I am certainly not the one throwing around insults. People need to understand that we need to obey the Lord to reach our objectives.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#118
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
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#118
garee said:
God is not a man as us.He remains supernatural ,which is without nature, (a beginning of days and end of Spirit life). And yes He must increase as we decrease, its why we pray without ceasing, until His word ,the incorruptible seed forms Christ in us..
Click to expand...
We need to get to know the Lord, have a loving relationship with him. Indeed, that is the first and great commandment (Matt 22:34-40).
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#119
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#119
Stunnedbygrace said:
So they can speak, they just can't ask a question? This is making Paul's words into a law and making it about the letter and about yoking men anew.
Click to expand...
It would be nice if they could speak without insulting the person they are speaking to.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#120
Feb 10, 2017
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685
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#120
resurrection33 said:
We need to get to know the Lord, have a loving relationship with him. Indeed, that is the first and great commandment (Matt 22:34-40).
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But how does this affect what Paul said about someone not speaking in the church, do you think he was speaking without love for the Corinthians?
 
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