Lets talk about Paul

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Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1 Thessalonians 5
1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

A prime example of just what we know of the date of His return. Though at times in today world a person can pick the date date of their child's arrival, (that is when a c-section is mandated), most of the time they can't. The doctor may give you a date, yet he seldom right. The best they can do is to look at they understand. The same holds true for the second coming of Yeshua.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.

Not sleep?? really? One may find it odd to ask this, yet at some point it has to made clear that not everything in the Word can be taken latterly. We should all know that to go without sleep for to long can lead to all kinds of health problems. Both physical and mental. So what is Paul telling us? It is clear that he know we would all sleep when our bodies need rest, as well we should.
One way to see this is that He is speaking not of physical sleep, rather spiritual. (That would the only way in my book) Yet one other way that has been given is that one night one person stays up, and keeps watch, then another and so on. Keep in mind the watchmen on the wall.

7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Paul may have known that they already know about his teaching the full armor of HaShem. The idea that he only gives 2 things off that list doesn't change the whole teaching. For any that have truly given their life over to Yeshua, they will hear His coming as it will not be silent. It may wake us from a dead sleep, yet that awaking will not hold any form of fear.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you,
13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. Be at peace among yourselves.
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all.
15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
16 Rejoice always,
17 pray without ceasing,
18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
19 Do not quench the Spirit.
20 Do not despise prophecies.
21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
22 Abstain from every form of evil.
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.
25 Brethren, pray for us.
26 Greet all the brethren with a holy kiss.
27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read to all the holy brethren.
28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Paul gives a check list if you will. To test any thing, one should not turn to their own understanding rather turn to the FULL WORD of HaShem.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2 Thessalonians 1
1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other,
4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure,
5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Many times in life when e are wrong by others, our nature is to fight back. Don't get me wrong, even the Word tells us there is a time for almost everything. Please see Ecc. 3:1-8 for that. My reason for using the word ALMOST is simple, vengeance is not a thing we should never undertake. If left in the hands of HaShem, then our hands remain clean, and there is not fault on our part.

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power,
12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

This can lead to a debate I will entertain sorry. That being as it is, we should at lest make note of it. One side will say this is 100% prof that there is no Pre-trib rapture. Others will say that is the case. Both make their points, yet as some will always do, they will defend their church teachings to the death if they must.
I will stand where I always do, Study this out for your self, read ever passage that deals with this in anyway, with an open mind and heart. This passage clearly tells us that 2 things MUST come first. So please look into them as well.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Some teach that in this passage we are being told of mystery religions, though they may not be the same ones at work in Pauls time, we all can think of at lest one in our own time.

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Some have made the claim that the above points to this person or that one. I say this with the understanding that this is echoed in Rev. 13. In Biblical theology we learned that no passage ever stands a lone. They must all be seen not through a lens from a microscope, rather though a a panoramic view that takes in everything. To use an odd analogy that hunters use, "It is only when we see the full seen, everything in front, beside and behind our target should we take the shoot." In a good scoop, one can see what is behind the target, and in front, yet it also gives us blinders. Unless the act of looking with your eyes is taken, you will not see if any one is standing beside it.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace,
17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2 Thessalonians 3
1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may run swiftly and be glorified, just as it is with you,
2 and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; for not all have faith.
3 But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one.
4 And we have confidence in the Lord concerning you, both that you do and will do the things we command you.
5 Now may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the patience of Christ.
6 But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us.

Though there are many understanding of this, seldom will find 2 doctrines willing to work to find common ground. As we discussed in Biblical theology class, Every church will say their doctrine and theology are only based on what the Bible tells THEM. Yet from one to the next, at times even with in the same denomination, there is no agreement in what it has to say. Yet no truer words have I ever heard than, "No man can ever say they know it all, or that they understand the Word 100%. As we are only human, and seem to always lean toward what we have been told. Seldom does is any one willing to stop and truly seek truth in any teaching that is out side of ones own willingness to understand.

7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you;
8 nor did we eat anyone's bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you,
9 not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us.

The best pastor I ever know lived this. He wouldn't ware anything that he couldn't, or wouldn't lay down in the dirt with. Even when behind the pulpit, the man wore jeans, and always had a tee-shirt at hand. It was not until a lady had her starter go out that I understood why. With out missing a beat, he crawled under her can, and replaced it. Even when he was told not to, it wasn't his job to do things like that. I can't count the times I went and helped him clean out sewer lines, fix water leaks in below freezing temps, repair leaking roofs, and even go out to a farm and weld, haul hay, move water lines or pull the pump on a water well.

10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies.
12 Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread.
13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good.
14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
16 Now may the Lord of peace Himself give you peace always in every way. The Lord be with you all.
17 The salutation of Paul with my own hand, which is a sign in every epistle; so I write.
18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1 Timothy 1
Oddly there are some that say Paul was not the author of this book. I find no reason for this idea at all. 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the commandment of God our Savior and the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope,
2 To Timothy, a true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia--remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.
5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,
7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,

Though this is not a full list of ways that the Law can be misused, they are some of the most common.
1- Requiring gentiles to observe aspects of the Law that are intended only for the Jewish people. Acts 15, 21 Ga:2:11 Co.2:16-23
2- Supposing the possession of Torah will bring salvation. Ro.2:17
3- Regarding mans doctrine and traditions as holding more authority than HaShem's Word. Mt. 15:1-20
4- Ignoring NT teachings on Torah. Mt. 5:17-19
5- Using Torah to lead people away from Yeshua. ( this can be done in many ways, sadly at times without understanding it is being done.) Ro. 10:4
6- Perverting the Torah into a legalistic system. Ro. 3:19-26; Ga. 2:16

9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

Though at times this has the bases for the teaching that we have no need of the Law, it dose stand in conflict with that idea. You see, if we didn't have the Torah to teach us was right and wrong, we may well follow the things that are wrong.

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry,
13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare,
19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck,
20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1 Timothy 2
1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

Paul May have seen what was going to become of the USA, and other nations. LOL Really though, if we as followers of HaShem would put as much time into praying for our leaders as we do complaining about them, we may soon find our self in a truly brave new world. Though as one wise person once said, "We now live a time when a true beleiver will find them self at odds withnew laws and teachings, we must be strong, and lift our leaders in prayer. To do less, shows a lack of faith that HaShem can work things to His end, and that we no longer wish His will in this world."
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;
9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,
10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

David H. Stern gives us some insight that is worth looking at. " Greek manthaneto doesn't mean learn in the modern sense, rather is related to mathetes disciple. Thus the context is the pattern of discipling and being discipled. Orthodox Jews the word "learn" to mean studying Torah not merely to gain knowledge, rather to become more holy, or to walk more closely with HaShem."
One may wish to use the first part of this passage to say we shouldn't ware jewelry, That however isn't totally true. Rather Paul is saying ware goody or expensive things. As they draw attention to the person, and not to HaShem.

One last thing. It seems to me I have posted this once before, and it simply isn't on here now. If so please over look the repeate. It may also be that this came up in class, or that I posted it on another web sight. Gotta love that old timers. ;)
Apr 15, 2017
Saul said he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees, and more zealous of the traditions of his fathers.

So he knew a great deal about the Old Testament.

A person can blaspheme against the Son, man Christ Jesus, flesh, and be forgiven, but cannot blaspheme against the Spirit, which Paul did not go against God, but he went against the man Christ Jesus, flesh, believing he was not of God.

Jesus got a hold of Saul, and he became Paul, and was taught directly by Jesus of the truth, the revelation of Jesus on the road to Damascus, and shown many revelations that he had a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble.

Paul had the same witness as the disciples for they knew for sure that Jesus resurrected from the grave,as some other people did also, so they did not need faith, for they knew for sure it was true, where everybody else it is based on faith, for Jesus said because you have seen Thomas you believe, but blessed is he that has not seen but still believes.

Then Paul said that he did not want to know anything among the saints but Christ and him crucified.

Paul taught the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

That Jesus is Lord and Savior, and God manifest in flesh.

Taught faith alone, not saved by works.

Taught that a Spirit led life will abstain from sin.

Taught the same thing as James, and John, and said without charity, love in action, he is nothing, and people erred from the faith, where James said their faith is dead, and John said the love of God does not dwell in them.

Taught that the nations will come together and rebel against God, and that the saints will know that it is not of God and will not follow them.

Taught that Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing them to His cross for they had no bearing on spiritual salvation, and broke the middle wall of partition down between the Jews and Gentiles, making in Himself one new man.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law, and the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, the laws of love, moral laws, the 2 greatest commandments love God, and love people.

Paul was all about the New Testament, but still quoted from the Old Testament like Jesus, for the Old Testament is a witness to the New Testament.

Some say that Paul contradicts Jesus but that is not true, for I do not see how he could.

Paul was very strict in his Christian lifestyle, as he said do you tell people to act a certain way and you do not act that way, and went against people that were doing things of the flesh that were not right, and said he keeps under his body, and brings it in to subjection.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1 Timothy 3
This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bish op, he desires a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);
6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money,
9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.
10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11 Likewise their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
14 These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly;
15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

If one was to read the regulations on the peristhood of the temple, many of them are found right here. In many ways to find a person that fills 1/2 of the requirements in today's world would be hard. Finding a person to fill them all, seem over whelming. I once heard a teacher, (can't remember his name sorry) He said that today, one in a million people could live up to all that Paul ask of a bishop. Sighting both Biblical and statistic evidence. This would hard to disagee with, when one looks at how the family has degraded, and how important the dollar has become to so many in the world.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1 Timothy 4
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Just as one person may wish not to eat what is seen as unclean by their understanding of the Word, other may think it fullish to follow this. The thing about it is, until we are willing to stop and look at both sides of the coin, we shouldn't spend or through away the money. In other words, if we know that a person doesn't agree with what we think, does that make us 100% right and them 100% wrong? A teacher of placed this question to us. Like him I will not give my idea as to the answer, just food for thought.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
7 But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness.
8 For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come.
To train ones self to follow true biblical teachings may lead one to seek out truth, not follow after every teaching that fits their hopes and wants. When this first to came to us a class, we had to define the meaning. We debated it over many days, and weeks. Our teacher just watched it play out. Then one person got it right, they turned to the Word, and explained to the others, "It is not what we hold in our minds that can make a thing right or wrong, it is what is held in the word. No power or person on eather cn change what is written. So to find what we may have wrong, we must first agree that we are not always right, and that any teacher we have today, or in the past, can be wrong. We must always seek truth, and the lies we have been told will show themselves.
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance.
10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
11 These things command and teach.
12 Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
13 Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.
15 Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. 16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
As always, people will hold to the things they like. Some teach that we shouldn't meat of any kind. This over looks the fact that we are told what is good for food and what isn't. Some teach that the Law is longer valid, yet they will hold fast to the Laws they like. Some will teach that there is no set day for the Sabbath, yet they will hold on to the one they like and pass it off the sabbath. Having been a member of many churchs, and been force feed many doctrines, it became clear to me, that if we all read, teach from, and place our hope of salvation in the same words, then all doctrine that claims to come from the Word, and claims to be the TRUTH, should be the same. When it isn't, then something is wrong not with the Word, rather with mans idea of truth.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1 Timothy 5
Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers,
2 older women as mothers, younger as sisters, with all purity.
3 Honor widows who are really widows.
4 But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show piety at home and to repay their parents; for this is good and acceptable before God.
Sadly in todays world the idea that we have need to repay repay our parents for anything has been forgotten.In the words of one teacher, "We have became in large, a people of entitlement. Both our laws, and leaders, have made us this way. We now think that our parents should support us from birth to the grave."
5 Now she who is really a widow, and left alone, trusts in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day.
6 But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.
7And these things command, that they may be blameless.
8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
9 Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number, and not unless she has been the wife of one man,
10 well reported for good works: if she has brought up children, if she has lodged strangers, if she has washed the saints' feet, if she has relieved the afflicted, if she has diligently followed every good work. 11 But refuse the younger widows; for when they have begun to grow wanton against Christ, they desire to marry,
12 having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith.
Though many find it at odds with the teaching of love for all, we are given guidelines as to who should and shouldn't be offered help. Though as with most church's, they help their own first. If one looks at the number of people in the world, or even just in your own tonw, no matter how small. It soon becomes clear that your church simply can't help them all. That is the foundation for the guidelines we find here.
13 And besides they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house, and not only idle but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not.
14 Therefore I desire that the younger widows marry, bear children, manage the house, give no opportunity to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some have already turned aside after Satan.
16 If any believing man or woman has widows, let them relieve them, and do not let the church be burdened, that it may relieve those who are really widows.
17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.
As can be seen here, Paul would like to see any widow that is not to old to marry, and have kids. This isn't a command, it is just how Paul seed things. After all, a child that truly walks in true faithfulness, will care for their parents, making sure they want for nothing that is a need. There once was a teacher that made this claim, "A women under the age of 40 is not a widow even though her husband has passed away." This however is not the intent of the passage. A wise teacher once said, "A true widow is one that has lost her spouse, Yet if she can remarry, she should. Paul speaks to the elderly as being true widows, as they are to old to marry, and have kids."
18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer is worthy of his wages."
19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses.
20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.
21 I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.
22 Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure. 23 No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities.
24 Some men's sins are clearly evident, preceding them to judgment, but those of some men follow later.
25 Likewise, the good works of some are clearly evident, and those that are otherwise cannot be hidden.
Many will teach that we should never drink any form of alcohol. Today things have changed a bit yes, water is clean, and less apt to make us sick. This is why wine was used rather than just plain water back then. If wine was mixed in the water, it would help to kill off any bacteria, or what ever. Still today, if a person gets an upset stomach, a little wine can help.


Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
Paul knew the Christ's message better than anyone! Without Paul we would all be lost. Grace my friends!


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1 Timothy 6
Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.
2 And those who have believing masters, let them not despise them because they are brethren, but rather serve them because those who are benefited are believers and beloved. Teach and exhort these things.
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,
5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
When one looks at the world of Television churches, many of them chase the dollor, and are only init for gain on this earth. However if we turn a side from the riches of this world, and chase the big prize of true salvation, we can be sure that all our needs on this earth will be meet.
6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
It was once said that only the poor would think to be content with just meeting their needs. The one that said that however, has never given their life to HaShem 100%. For any that have, we know that true peace, and happiness, comes from our walk with Him,and not from the things of this world.
9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate,
14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.
18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share,
19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge--
21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2 Timothy 1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2 To Timothy, a beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
3 I thank God, whom I serve with a pure conscience, as my forefathers did, as without ceasing I remember you in my prayers night and day,
4 greatly desiring to see you, being mindful of your tears, that I may be filled with joy, 5 when I call to remembrance the genuine faith that is in you, which dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am persuaded is in you also. 6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
If one was to read this at face value, they may think that we will never see death, not even in a physical way. Yes I have been shown in a class on the history of church doctrine, that this was once thought as meaning just that. That however doesn't address the idea of not being ashamed. One teacher rather than tell us what this speaks to, showed us. He placed us in place where to speak of the great things HaShem has done, could get a person hurt. Of the 10 of us, only 3 spoke of the Word, and of them, only 2 spoke of HaShem, Yeshua, and salvation. Everyone after words, adminted to being more that a bit apprehensive of entering that building.
12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.
13 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.
14 That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. 15 This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me, among whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
16 The Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain;
17 but when he arrived in Rome, he sought me out very zealously and found me. 18 The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day--and you know very well how many ways he ministered to me at Ephesus.
The house of Onesiphorus is spoken of fondly. Paul makes it clear to all, that this person didn't turn away when Paul was imprisoned. Though it seems that others had. Though we can't really say for sure, do you think that when the time comes, you will stand fast, and proclame the good news of Yeshua? Or is it in your heart to be like Peter, and deny Him?


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2 Timothy 2
You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
3 You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
A teacher once asked us, "What hardship do you face as you speak, teach, or live the truths of the Word?" Many times in life we find that we face somethings that we see as unfair, or to much for us to deal with. As of late, many things have been placed at the feet of us all, from government intervention into the church, to being bulled by others that simply wish their will on us for what ever reason.
4 No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.
5 And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.
6 The hard-working farmer must be first to partake of the crops.
7 Consider what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things.
8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel,
9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained.
Some have wished to place Paul as teaching his own gospel. What they fail to remember is that Paul didn't change the message as it was given to us by Yeshua, rather he worked to make it a bit easier for non Jews to understand it. Sadly that lead to many misconceptions, and in some cases, a perverted take on his work.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.
Many times when people debate the Word, it comes down to the meaning of words. After all, if a word is missed, or misunderstood, that can lead a total misunderstanding of the whole Word, not just one passage. You see, if we study the Word as it is ment to be seen, and understood. We do good things with it, however if any part is misunderstood, like say takeing the Torah as being only a physical action, and not a spiritual walk. At some point we will find that we teach things that are not so. Just as if we try to understand the NT with out the aid or benifit of the OT, once more we face the idea that we will most likely not understand what we are truly meant to see in a passage.
This is not the same as debating the meaning of a word, and finding that we have no clear answer. Or pushing ones idea over that of others, and in so doing pushing others away from the Word.

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
Paul isn't speaking of dividing the Word into 2 or 3 parts. He only had one book, the Tanakh. So think that Paul would say to split this up into 2 or 3 parts, seems odd. (unless you are talking of the true divition that is placed there in. The Torah, the Writings, and the Propitiates. Paul was speaking of makeing sure that when one studies the Word, they focus on the topic of study. Seeking all truth that is held in the Word as a whole.
19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.
21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2 Timothy 3
But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
I know that if we all honest with our selves, we will have admint we see the above listed everyday. To some extent it is highly possible that we see a little of it in our own lives. This is where self examination most play a part in our everyday lives.
6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was. 10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance,
11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra--what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Although many wish to debate the relativity of what is now called the old testament, and some with to hold to the teachings of Paul over any part of the Bible, (yes I know the Pauline doctrine isn't what once was) they so at the risk of over looking parts of the vary teachings they hold so dear.


Have you ever wanted to know the man Paul, who he was, what he did, and most of all how he thought? I understand that yes the Word is all we have to work off with him. There are some other books and writers that fill us in on parts we may not know. I have even been told, though never found or read them, that the RCC has records no other church has on Paul.
From some of my studies, I do know that the RCC does have an extensive archive, some writings that date back to around 50 AD if I remember it right.
I am hoping this will stay on the topic of getting to know Paul, and stay clear of any use of Paul to make points that may or may not be true. If I learned anything from my time in Biblical study, both in and out of the class room, it is that if one truly wants to make a point of almost any kind, turn to Paul. His writings can be read to mean almost anything a person wishes to find. Peter tells us this about Paul,
2Pe 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
2Pe 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

This can be seen as a warning to us, that we should know the person, how Paul sees scripture, and just what parts of the Word Paul is calling scripture. It is only with this understanding that one can truly find the truth of his words. So lets get started.

It is a clear fact that Paul only had what many today call the Old Testament. It is from this book that Paul based his teaching. In his writings Paul quotes from or makes clear allusions to the Tanach 111 times. He references the Torah 46 times, the Prophets 42 times, and the Writings 23 times.
In relation the dead sea scroll's represent the following, Deut. 27 times, Isaiah 21 times, and Psalms 39 times. Indicating that Pauls use of the Tanach fits with the general perspective of 1st century Judaisms. (FN) from page 153of the letter Writer, by Tim Hegg.
We don't need an interpreter to understand Pauls writings. Just ask God to help us understand. Paul's writings are spiritual not carnal. If you try to understand it carnally, you will miss the mark.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2 Timothy 3
But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
As was pointed out in the past, all this can be seen in today's world. 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
I have seen in the lives of many, how they learn so much, (though at times they learn faults doctrine) yet can never find the truth of Scripture. Having turned away from even my own family at times, though it is not an easy thing to do, I have learned that at times we must simply let others follow what they will. An even harder thing to do, when you know family is going down the wrong path.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.
When we teach anything, it is important that we teach truth. to do less, will always come to light.
10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance,
11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra--what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
There will come a time on this earth, when our faith will be tested. For some it may be simple name calling, or a challenge of understanding. Others may face great loss, like that of Job. No mater what we face in life, we must stand strong, accept what HaShem does, with understanding and not complain.
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
As some wish to dismiss any part of the Tanakh, with a claim of being nailed to the cross, or being out of date, they do so only after dismissing what Paul has to tell us here.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2 Timothy 4
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
Though this passage has been used by all sides of the debate over Biblical Law, It is one that we should all be useing when we use the whole of the Word for self examination. Keeping in mind the question of what we follow, and does it truly line up with scripture. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
How many of us truly understand our own place in the ministry? Trust me, holding a title, or degree means little. Understanding goes beyond both, just as it goes beyond following any teaching. True understanding comes from a willingness to study, every aspect of scirpture. finding how the old and new fit together. As it should be clear from scripture it's self, they work together, and can never stand in oposision of one another.
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. 9 Be diligent to come to me quickly;
10 for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has departed for Thessalonica--Crescens for Galatia, Titus for Dalmatia.
11 Only Luke is with me. Get Mark and bring him with you, for he is useful to me for ministry. 12 And Tychicus I have sent to Ephesus.
13 Bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas when you come--and the books, especially the parchments.
14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm. May the Lord repay him according to his works
Some have said that here Paul shows us he doesn't really follow the teachings of Yeshua. However, I find that to be wrong. Rather Paul is leaving the punishment of Alexander in the hands of HaShem. There can be no better judge of man.
15 You also must beware of him, for he has greatly resisted our words.
16 At my first defense no one stood with me, but all forsook me. May it not be charged against them.
17 But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me, so that the message might be preached fully through me, and that all the Gentiles might hear. And I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
18 And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!
19 Greet Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus.
20 Erastus stayed in Corinth, but Trophimus I have left in Miletus sick.
21 Do your utmost to come before winter. Eubulus greets you, as well as Pudens, Linus, Claudia, and all the brethren.
22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.


Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
Titus 1
Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,
2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;
4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you--
6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.
By the text given, it would seem in todays world hard to find anyone that one could call an elder. Yet when all politicks are set aside, (as should be in all churches) many can be found.
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,
8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
Though every curch holds it's own doctrine above all other churches, and they use it as their guide. Some hold that a bishop must follow sound Biblical doctrine, even if that doctrine stands in contrast to the church. Though this idea sounds odd to many of us, it does have it's place. As it works to steer the church away from mans ideas, and put iton the path of Biblical teachings.
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.
Though some may never have known anyone that teaches their own form of doctrine, (like say David Cursh, Jim Jones and others.) One thing is clear they are out there. Many of them wish to claim that all tiths must go to the one you get your teachings from. Even some churchs teach this. At lest one church will not baptize anyone that is unwilling to say all tiths will go to that church.
12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. 15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
Some think that I live my life, and teach only what the rabbis have passed down for many thousands of years. Though it is true that I look at what the sages have to say, it is also true that I think for myself. IWe must all learn to test all things, and to study out teaching given to us, no matter were it comes from. The Word of HaShem is true to it's own teachings, and has the power to inform us, as well as show the meaning of ever passage it holds. Don't be shy, what many call the old testament, is your friend, (if I may say it that way) and holds many answers you can not find in what is called the New Testament.