Lord , Teach us To pray !

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,986
2,236
113
#81
My point was today God is not requiring animal sacrifices. But if you didn't notice the CHANGE you may miss the update .
Please, try to see the entire picture. If you only see animal sacrifices in the commands God gave that blood is required for forgiveness of sin, you miss the message God is sending. If you would believe we must sacrifice animals today, you miss the message God is sending. It is rightly dividing the word, and that results in hearing what the Lord is telling us about eternal truths. It is the eternal truths that have the most importance.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#82
Please, try to see the entire picture. If you only see animal sacrifices in the commands God gave that blood is required for forgiveness of sin, you miss the message God is sending. If you would believe we must sacrifice animals today, you miss the message God is sending. It is rightly dividing the word, and that results in hearing what the Lord is telling us about eternal truths. It is the eternal truths that have the most importance.
I'm Not sure what you mean by ' eternal truths ' ? It's a given that there is significance to Animal sacrifices. This is explained in the bible, especially Hebrews . For the sake of future discussion ,yes I understand that God doesn't do things arbitrarily. Yes I understand the meaning behind the tabernacle, the Ark , the serpent in the wilderness, ect ect . My point is about what is factually not directive, the command, the direction, the appropriation of the thing or the 'truth 'is not intended for today or towards a certain people , or time . God's dealings with his programme and with man is not static. Its not stationary .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#83
Please, try to see the entire picture. If you only see animal sacrifices in the commands God gave that blood is required for forgiveness of sin, you miss the message God is sending. If you would believe we must sacrifice animals today, you miss the message God is sending. It is rightly dividing the word, and that results in hearing what the Lord is telling us about eternal truths. It is the eternal truths that have the most importance.
The Jews today are the example of my point. They missed the transition. They missed the change . They missed the ' update ' As a consequence they missed their messiah . They did not rightly divide the word. Its the same today with certain denominations who miss all the transitions in the four gosepls and the book of Acts . They don't acknowledge the Audiences being spoken to ,the timelines ,the dispensation, where a thing is revealed that was kept secret before. Which was hid in other ages and not known prior .
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
6,986
2,236
113
#84
I'm Not sure what you mean by ' eternal truths ' ? It's a given that there is significance to Animal sacrifices. This is explained in the bible, especially Hebrews . For the sake of future discussion ,yes I understand that God doesn't do things arbitrarily. Yes I understand the meaning behind the tabernacle, the Ark , the serpent in the wilderness, ect ect . My point is about what is factually not directive, the command, the direction, the appropriation of the thing or the 'truth 'is not intended for today or towards a certain people , or time . God's dealings with his programme and with man is not static. Its not stationary .
Thanks so much for this thoughtful reply.

There is much misunderstanding based on that God gave commands like circumcision and animal sacrifice that does not apply today. Your point is that it means a change, and my point is that there is a sameness in the principles of the Lord in these changes that we are to see. The changes are obvious, but it seems to me very important to see the eternal sameness of the Lord.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#85
Thanks so much for this thoughtful reply.

There is much misunderstanding based on that God gave commands like circumcision and animal sacrifice that does not apply today. Your point is that it means a change, and my point is that there is a sameness in the principles of the Lord in these changes that we are to see. The changes are obvious, but it seems to me very important to see the eternal sameness of the Lord.
Another example is here in Acts 1 .
4¶And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9¶And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Verses 6 and 11 . They need reminding of the Lord about the ' programme ' . They don't know or understand the transitions yet . Not until Acts 11 ..then they learn of the revelation of the gospel of Grace given to Paul.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
1,959
713
113
#86
And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.


And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Give us day by day our daily bread.

And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.

And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.



...And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you;

seek, and ye shall find;

knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?


If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭11:1-11, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Be not ye therefore like unto them:

for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

After this manner therefore pray ye:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come.

Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.



For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:5-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any:

that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know there are some who don’t believe Jesus teachings are meant for us , but they are. This is Jesus the lord teaching believers about prayer . Take in his words and Consider his will and desire for you regarding prayer but also all things

prayer is a very important matter it is the most powerful action a believer does. So it seems rather wise to learn from the lord how he desires our prayers to be. Even when others explain it isn’t important or isn’t correct , belief tells us a different story.

of course there is a lot more teaching about prayer such as praying in Jesus name but a good place to begin to understand Jesus is to hear and consider his words about the things of God prayer being a really important one

God bless you
Right. Jesus told his disciples to go to the Jews first,

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. Act.3:26

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Lk.24:47

for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Isa.2:3

Jesus never meant that his teachings should never be taught to gentiles.

ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Act.1:8
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,685
1,884
113
#87
My point was today God is not requiring animal sacrifices. But if you didn't notice the CHANGE you may miss the update .
That's we have the Holy Ghost...He teaches and guides us unto all truth.

John 14:26 “ But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,685
1,884
113
#88
Verses 6 and 11 . They need reminding of the Lord about the ' programme ' . They don't know or understand the transitions yet . Not until Acts 11 ..then they learn of the revelation of the gospel of Grace given to Paul.
But we do have the Holy Ghost now.

John 14:26 “ But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 

Beebee7

New member
Dec 13, 2020
14
6
3
#89
The whole Bible is FOR us . ALL Jesus words are FOR us . But not all are TO us . Including the ones above .
Interesting. So when Jesus taught the disciples how to pray, you don’t think that prayer is a blueprint for how we should Ben praying?
 

Beebee7

New member
Dec 13, 2020
14
6
3
#90
It does seriously confuse and concern me as to why people want to say the sermon on the Mount was not for us. What is wrong with it? Why wouldn't we want to follow Jesus' teachings?
The sermon on the mount couldn’t be MORE for us. It is a picture of what the Christian life should look like
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#91
Interesting. So when Jesus taught the disciples how to pray, you don’t think that prayer is a blueprint for how we should Ben praying?
No where says that's what we should do with that prayer . This is what christianity has done with that prayer ..
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#92
But we do have the Holy Ghost now.

John 14:26 “ But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Yes they received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 . 10 years later a gentile gets the Holy Spirit also. Thats when we come in .After the apostle to the gentiles .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#93
The sermon on the mount couldn’t be MORE for us. It is a picture of what the Christian life should look like
And yet no ' christian ' was present on the mount. Jesus is addressing the Jews . Let us not be jealous when Jesus said 24¶But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And then the confirmed this by commanding the 12
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Acts 10

28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

And later we still see in Acts 11

19¶Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only .
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
6,102
2,054
113
#94
Right. Jesus told his disciples to go to the Jews first,

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. Act.3:26

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Lk.24:47

for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Isa.2:3

Jesus never meant that his teachings should never be taught to gentiles.

ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Act.1:8
yes amen , the same teaching he taught them he then sent them to teach us now ,we have thier accounts of the gospel to believe God bless
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
6,102
2,054
113
#98
The sermon on the mount couldn’t be MORE for us. It is a picture of what the Christian life should look like
what you said there struck a note in my mind , thank you it’s the heart of the gospel evident in that comment where the gospel is centered and living and able to change us

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:25-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:


“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

And he spake this parable unto them, saying, What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he wasn’t only saying repent you sinners or die !!! He did say that but also he was teaching them what repentance is really
Like and what it’s really about
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬
He preached only to Israel on earth (Matt. 10:1–6); is that what He is still doing (Rom. 10)? He is the SAME, is He? In what way? He had blood in His physical body (John 19:34); does He have blood in His body now (Luke 24:39)? Christ is being whipped NOW, is He (Isa. 53)? He was being whipped “yesterday” in the Old Testament, was He (Heb. 9:25–26)?