Many are called but few are chosen

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Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#41
However, what is more consistent with Scripture; man’s choice or God’s? I lean more towards the latter. Of course this will never be settled this side of eternity.
Since God desires the salvation of all humanity, and since Christ died for the sins of the whole world, if God were choosing people for salvation, He would save absolutely everyone. But because God demands and commands obedience to the Gospel, it means that every person who hears or reads the Gospel must make a decision and a choice.

To say that God chooses some for salvation and others for damnation is a damnable doctrine. That is a distortion of the meaning of predestination and divine election. Yet a huge number of Christians believe and promote this nonsense.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
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#42
Abraham, Jacob, Caleb, David, Stephan and the apostles all show and demonstrate something about those that God chooses.

It's a lineup of the talent and picking teams. EVERY time God chooses the last one picked to be his "Chosen".
The guy or girl that nobody recognizes as being leadership material. They aren't the theologically astute or smart. They aren't the physically strongest or fastest....
They are the ones that nobody wants. The ones forgotten about. The last picks for the team that everyone thinks they are going to carry their water for them.

These are the ones that God picks for his Chosen.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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#43
Since God desires the salvation of all humanity, and since Christ died for the sins of the whole world, if God were choosing people for salvation, He would save absolutely everyone. But because God demands and commands obedience to the Gospel, it means that every person who hears or reads the Gospel must make a decision and a choice.

To say that God chooses some for salvation and others for damnation is a damnable doctrine. That is a distortion of the meaning of predestination and divine election. Yet a huge number of Christians believe and promote this nonsense.
I don’t think there is any distortion. The scriptures are pretty clear and consistent. If God made some for destruction and some for glory, isn’t He allowed to do as He wants? From the moment we are born, we are enemies of God. The fact anyone is allowed to approach Him is a testament of His mercy. You and I both deserve eternal damnation.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#44
I don’t think there is any distortion. The scriptures are pretty clear and consistent. If God made some for destruction and some for glory, isn’t He allowed to do as He wants?
Before God makes any for destruction, He gives them all ample opportunities to repent. Consider Nineveh when Jonah was reluctant to go there. So it is only after men harden their hearts repeatedly that God hardens their hearts, as evident in God's dealings with Pharaoh when told to release the Israelites. So this matter of making some for destruction has also been distorted to fit the narrative of the Calvinistic crowd.
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#45
.
According to Matt 7:13-14 and Matt 22:14; relatively few make it to safety
in the afterlife compared to relatively many that don't. Bear with me while I
flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Jun 17, 2022, @ 11:13 am New
York Time, the resident population in the United States was approximately
332,787,216 with a death rate of approximately one every 13 seconds;
which translates to an average of 6,646 American deaths of all ages, races,
and genders during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths
were under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 4,832 of
the current daily death rate per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum
percentage to 51%, would indicate a minimum of 2,464 American adults
transferring to perdition every day: which translates to roughly 103 per
hour.

That's a conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact
percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think:
by the time CBS completes a half hour evening news report, a bare-bones
minimum of 51 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery sector of the
netherworld.

Using the ratio of 2,464 condemned souls per 332,787,216 population:
computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently
estimated global population of 7,902,641,057 people, would suggest
something like 58,512 new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld
every 24 hours; which translates to roughly 2,438 souls every sixty minutes
on the clock.(This is a very rough estimate as the death rate in some other
countries I could name are quite a bit higher than the USA)

Yankee Stadium's football seating capacity is 54,251. At the rate of 2,438
souls per hour, those seats would be filled in roughly 22 hours and 15
minutes. In other words: by 04:15 am NY time tomorrow the stadium's
seats would be maxed if the world's daily number of condemned souls
started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am NY time this morning.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death
certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on
those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to
12.2% higher.

The netherworld never closes; no, not at all: it's open for business 24/7/365
nonstop and indifferent to climate change, Wall Street crashes, massive
layoffs, outsourcing, school shootings, terrorism, tsunamis, earthquakes,
hurricanes, storm surges, nuclear meltdowns, global diseases, air, water,
and soil pollution, freeway pile-ups, brown-outs, threatened species, the
price of oil, media bias, Falun Gong organ harvesting, China's Wahun mad
lab, election fraud, student debt, GMO, trade deficits, Antifa, Black Lives
Matter, North Korea's human rights abuses, mandate madness, astronomical
Federal debt, overpopulation, desertification, genocides, double-digit
inflation, open borders, revolutions, civil wars, acid rain, road rage, Dr.
Fauci's fake science, oil spills, conscious decoupling, ISIS, LGBT marriage,
transgender confusion, blood diamonds, Russia's invasion of Ukraine,
fracking, twerking, pedophile cover-ups, Hunter Biden's laptop, and/or
former US President Donald Trump's second impeachment.

If standard Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is
correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in
an endless procession like the unbelievable millions of poultry broilers
passing annually through Tyson chicken-processing plants on their way to
Wendy's, McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Chic-fil-A,
KFC, A&W, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and
restaurants all over the USA and wherever else Tyson vends its meats. The
slaughtering and the butchering never stop.
_
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,564
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#46
Abraham, Jacob, Caleb, David, Stephan and the apostles all show and demonstrate something about those that God chooses.

It's a lineup of the talent and picking teams. EVERY time God chooses the last one picked to be his "Chosen".
The guy or girl that nobody recognizes as being leadership material. They aren't the theologically astute or smart. They aren't the physically strongest or fastest....
They are the ones that nobody wants. The ones forgotten about. The last picks for the team that everyone thinks they are going to carry their water for them.

These are the ones that God picks for his Chosen.

From Isaiah 66:1-2
:)
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
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#47
Before God makes any for destruction, He gives them all ample opportunities to repent. Consider Nineveh when Jonah was reluctant to go there. So it is only after men harden their hearts repeatedly that God hardens their hearts, as evident in God's dealings with Pharaoh when told to release the Israelites. So this matter of making some for destruction has also been distorted to fit the narrative of the Calvinistic crowd.
And God also Hardened Pharaohs heart intentionally to display His power. Oh yeah, Pharaoh repented, but God made an example of him. Why? Because He is God who holds all things together. We don’t have as much free will as we think do. He will give those over to reprobates minds. That’s His doing, not ours.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#48
He will give those over to reprobates minds.
You seem to have missed the point. God first commands repentance. He does not arbitrarily condemn anyone. Calvinism is all about God acting in an arbitrary fashion -- just like sinful men. But that is NOT what God is.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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987
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#49
You seem to have missed the point. God first commands repentance. He does not arbitrarily condemn anyone. Calvinism is all about God acting in an arbitrary fashion -- just like sinful men. But that is NOT what God is.
I haven’t missed any point. In fact I have looked into this this quite extensively. So why did God harden Pharaohs heart intentionally? Does not the potter have a right to mold His clay? A man’s heart chooses his path, but God directs His steps. The Father will up-root those He has not planted. How do you reconcile those things if God is not a the fashioner of all things?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#50
So why did God harden Pharaohs heart intentionally?
It was Pharaoh who FIRST hardened his heart. Therefore God finally hardened it to the point that he could not repent. So once again, God does not arbitrarily choose some for damnation. Read and study Exodus for yourself.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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#51
It was Pharaoh who FIRST hardened his heart. Therefore God finally hardened it to the point that he could not repent. So once again, God does not arbitrarily choose some for damnation. Read and study Exodus for yourself.
I have read it, many times. What does the text say with regards to Pharaoh:

But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.
Exodus 9:14

It’s pretty straight forward.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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#52
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Through me; the way to the eternal city.
Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
Through me; the way to lost people.

Justice moved my supreme maker:
I was shaped by divine power,
By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

Before me, nothing was created
That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
Abandon all hope, you that enter here.
The Divine Comedy
Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9
by Dante Alighieri


Dante's poetic epic is called a comedy because it has a happy ending as
opposed to a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he and Virgil
pass along the way through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will
never, nor anon, have a happy ending; hence the sign above the entrance:
"Abandon all hope, you that enter here."

Webster's defines "despair' as: to no longer have any hope or belief that a
situation will improve or change. Well; down in the Inferno section of
Dante's concept, despair is a way of life. It's likely not much different in the
real inferno.

When people first arrive, no doubt they start asking around to find out how
long they have to stay there. It must be very devastating to encounter folk
who've been languishing in the fiery region of the netherworld since
practically the dawn of Man.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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#53
.
Matt 13:10 . . And the disciples came and said to him: Why do you speak
to them in parables?

Jesus answered their inquiry by referring to an incident in the 6th chapter of
Isaiah's prophecy wherein God had lost interest in numbers of His people
because they had lost interest in Him.

The Jews' spiritual condition was little different in Jesus' day, i.e. many were
called but few chosen, and that's because the many were indifferent; which
isn't an appropriate response.

1Sam 3:19 . .The Lord was with Samuel as he grew up, and he let none of
His words fall to the ground.
_
 
Dec 30, 2020
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#54
It was Pharaoh who FIRST hardened his heart. Therefore God finally hardened it to the point that he could not repent. So once again, God does not arbitrarily choose some for damnation. Read and study Exodus for yourself.
You have the wrong perspective. Everyone is doomed for damnation and God arbitrarily chooses some to salvation. Also, consider that maybe God softens Pharaoh's evil heart when He sends His Holy Spirit to restrain the evil and hardens it when He withdraws His Spirit.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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#55
You seem to have missed the point. God first commands repentance. He does not arbitrarily condemn anyone. Calvinism is all about God acting in an arbitrary fashion -- just like sinful men. But that is NOT what God is.
How do the spiritually dead choose to seek and understand the gospel?

A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2
 
Jun 28, 2022
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#56
You have the wrong perspective. Everyone is doomed for damnation and God arbitrarily chooses some to salvation. Also, consider that maybe God softens Pharaoh's evil heart when He sends His Holy Spirit to restrain the evil and hardens it when He withdraws His Spirit.
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the term arbitrary here.

Arbitrariness is the quality of being "determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle".
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#57
How do the spiritually dead choose to seek and understand the gospel?
I guess you have never heard that (1) the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to them that believe (2) faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God and (3) the Gospel (the Word of God) is the incorruptible seed of the New Birth. So there's your answer. And don't forget Hebrews 4:12,13 either.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#58
You have the wrong perspective. Everyone is doomed for damnation and God arbitrarily chooses some to salvation.
That is PURE NONSENSE. God does nothing arbitrarily. Furthermore He offers salvation to all mankind -- to whosoever will believe.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#59
How do the spiritually dead choose to seek and understand the gospel?

A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2
Ephesians 2:
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins.
2 At that time, you walked in the way of this world, in conformity to the ruler of the domain of the air—the ruler of the spirit who is now operating in the sons of disobedience.
3 We too all lived among them in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind. By nature we were children of wrath, just like the others.
4 But God was rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us.
5 Even when we were dead in our trespasses, He made us alive together with Messiah.

NOTICE VERSE 5
5 Even when we were dead in our trespasses, He made us alive together with Messiah.

Verses 1-3 explain how we are the Dead Natural Man

Verse 5 says WE WERE DEAD...THEN GOD MADE US ALIVE.
 
Jun 12, 2021
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#60
Thank you for your input. I was trying to figure out why God would call someone and not choose him. Your input has given me the answer. The called are the ones that hear the gospel message and the chosen are those that believe it in their heart.
Also, like another poster stated, once you are filled with God's Holy Spirit, you belong to Him and are born again because you have a changed heart full of divine love. Those that Christ does not know have not received the Holy Spirit of God.
I am thankful that there are people like you on CC who are not disrespectful and prideful but are patient and loving in their response.
After I prayed "to be closer to God", multiple times.
God switches my family member's thoughts from use to going to the restaurants during holidays.
Now having family gatherings at home and relative's homes.
They even have pastors come to test me, like how the Pharisees tested Jesus.

So glad the family persecutions is finally over.
There is a change in the spiritual realm, must be why they don't persecute me during holidays now.
Always have anxiety when holidays come, have to prayed to God like my life depend on it. I really feel, like what Jesus felt during garden of gethsemane.
-------------------------------------------------------------

2 Peter 1:4
King James Version


4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Romans 8:38-39
King James Version


38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Read Genesis 1 and you will see how powerful God is.

https://www.gotquestions.org/God-omnipotent.html

Read Romans 1.

God controls all events. 1 Samuel 23, Job 1-2

--------------------------------
Ecclesiastes 5:16-20
 
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