No more of works?

[John146]

“and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yes, Enoch was an exception, not the rule. Enoch is a picture of the raptured saint who will not taste death.

 

[John146]

It never was of works. He is contrasting works against faith.

Paul did not say, "It has never been of works." Rather, he makes a point to say, it is no more of works...no more...it was, but no more.

 

[John146]

So, Paul's statement implicitly declares that "It is now more of works now than it was then, and even though they were given the opportunity to prove their righteousness by works, no one obtained righteousness by works then either. The righteous have always and will always obtain it by faith."

That's not what the passage actually states.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Paul did not say, "It has never been of works." Rather, he makes a point to say, it is no more of works...no more...it was, but no more.

You still don't get it. So let's look at that passage again.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

What is Paul really saying? Is he not saying that salvation was NEVER based upon works? Since it was ALWAYS by grace, then works were excluded right from the start. and those who mistakenly believed that works counted for something were actually blind. He could have said "never was of works" so trying to force another meaning is contrary to the Gospel.

 

[John146]

You still don't get it. So let's look at that passage again.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

What is Paul really saying? Is he not saying that salvation was NEVER based upon works? Since it was ALWAYS by grace, then works were excluded right from the start. and those who mistakenly believed that works counted for something were actually blind. He could have said "never was of works" so trying to force another meaning is contrary to the Gospel.

No more of works...no more...no more...no more. Why would Israel try and continue to establish their own righteousness? Because that's the way it had been under the law. But Christ ended the law for righteousness. All it takes now is believing the gospel. God's righteousness is Jesus Christ. God's righteousness was not available until after the cross.

Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[John146]

No more of works...no more...no more...no more. Why would Israel try and continue to establish their own righteousness? Because that's the way it had been under the law. But Christ ended the law for righteousness. All it takes now is believing the gospel. God's righteousness is Jesus Christ. God's righteousness was not available until after the cross.

Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Why would Paul pray fervently for Israel to be saved if they already had access under the law? Had something changed? YES!

 

[John146]

You still don't get it. So let's look at that passage again.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

What is Paul really saying? Is he not saying that salvation was NEVER based upon works? Since it was ALWAYS by grace, then works were excluded right from the start. and those who mistakenly believed that works counted for something were actually blind. He could have said "never was of works" so trying to force another meaning is contrary to the Gospel.

Post #14 If a righteous man turn from his righteousness and does iniquity, he will die in his sin. That's OT. We have something better than they. Do we not?

 

[Cameron143]

You still don't get it. So let's look at that passage again.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

What is Paul really saying? Is he not saying that salvation was NEVER based upon works? Since it was ALWAYS by grace, then works were excluded right from the start. and those who mistakenly believed that works counted for something were actually blind. He could have said "never was of works" so trying to force another meaning is contrary to the Gospel.

Good luck on this line of reasoning. I already tried.

 

[Dino246]

What are some thoughts on the following passage? "Then is it no more of works." When did grace start? When was it by works?

Romans 11
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

It's an If-Then statement, not a Now-Then statement; there is no time component implied.

 

[John146]

It's an If-Then statement, not a Now-Then statement; there is no time component implied.

But it does not say, if it be by grace then it is not of works. Instead it states, no more of works.

 

[Dino246]

But it does not say, if it be by grace then it is not of works. Instead it states, no more of works.

So you are defeated by 16th-century grammar? Oh my. How ironic.

 

[ResidentAlien]

But it does not say, if it be by grace then it is not of works. Instead it states, no more of works.

Here we go. Didn't take long.

 

[John146]

So you are defeated by 16th-century grammar? Oh my. How ironic.

No more of works meant something different in 1611? That's funny. It's obvious that we have something better than those OT saints.

 

[John146]

Here we go. Didn't take long.

Post #14

 

[John146]

So you are defeated by 16th-century grammar? Oh my. How ironic.

See Post #14

 

[notmyown]

Sounds like works…

Ezekiel 18:
5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord God.

24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

hi! perhaps it sounds like works because you didn't post the whole chapter? if you read the whole thing in context you may be better able to understand the message God is giving?

grace and peace to you

 

[notmyown]

hi! perhaps it sounds like works because you didn't post the whole chapter? if you read the whole thing in context you may be better able to understand the message God is giving?

grace and peace to you

remember, "by the deeds of the Law NO FLESH shall be justified in His sight".

 

[rogerg]

Salvation has always been by faith,

Salvation by our faith? When was our faith nailed to the cross for the offering; when was our faith sent to hell
for the offering; when was our faith slain as the Lamb of God for the offering; when did our faith bring forth the gospel message for the offering; when was our faith, faithful to the mission the Father assigned in bringing forth salvation? If our faith didn't do each and every one of those things plus more, then how is it possible that our faith can save us? It must therefore be that only Christ's faith saves with our faith being a result of His faith.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[VARob]

Salvation by our faith? When was our faith nailed to the cross for the offering; when was our faith sent to hell
for the offering; when was our faith slain as the Lamb of God for the offering; when did our faith bring forth the gospel message for the offering; when was our faith, faithful to the mission the Father assigned in bringing forth salvation? If our faith didn't do each and every one of those things plus more, then how is it possible that our faith can save us? It must therefore be that only Christ's faith saves with our faith being a result of His faith.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I'm not a Calvinist. One day you won't be one either.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their
own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:4