Not By Works

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Oct 31, 2015
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They were never His,
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.


Why weren’t they ever His?


It plainly says these believed?


What more must we do to be saved, other than believe?



JPT
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Yes I agree. We are saved when we believe.
What none of you OSAS folks can explain or address in a rational manner is those who believe and are saved then no longer believe.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


  • lest they should believe and be saved.


Jesus taught the condition that is to be met for a person to be saved, is to believe.


These folks in the next group did in fact believe, and by your own admission they were saved when they believed.

Later they no longer believed, but rather, these fell away.

They returned to unbelief, no longer meeting the simple condition Jesus gave us for being saved.


JPT
I addressed that, which you skimmed over it, or did not read it at ALL.

YOU GET ONE REPEAT ONLY.

1 John 2:19-21 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you have knowledge.
21 I have not written to you because you don’t know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie comes from the truth.

You mentioned the Parable of the Sower. AND YOU HAVE MISTAKEN THAT TO BE THREE good soils, and only one type of Unbeliever. You are WRONG. There is ONLY ONE TYPE OF GOOD SOIL, and THREE UNBELIEVING SOILS. CHURCH GOERS DOES NOT EQUAL A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. How do I know? I USED TO BE ONE OF THOSE. I went to Church all of my life, BUT I WAS NOT SAVED UNTIL after three attempts at SUICIDE in when I was 29 years OLD. That is when I TOTALLY SURRENDERED to the LORD, my MASTER, out of LOVE FOR HIM. I wanted a savior, BUT I WAS LORD OF MY OWN LIFE, until after that third attempt at suicide.

In this the Middle of the LAODICEAN AGE of watered down lukewarm Christiandom, we have FEW THAT HAVE EVER ENTERED THE NARROW GATE, and that story in Mat. 7 is ONLY talking about people who claim they are CHRISTIANS, and the MANY that go through the WIDE GATE think they are SAVED but they ARE NOT.

Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’



The NARROW GATE is the inner, personal, LOVE relationship with JESUS CHRIST, where YOU will LOVING CALL HIM LORD which means MASTER, while MOURNING and repenting of SIN. Like I said, in my easy believism days, I wanted a savior, that could help me out when I got in TROUBLE, but I WANTED TO BE MY OWN LORD. My way only led me to THREE ATTEMPTS AT SUICIDE, and when I came to a dead-end of myself; THEN I was ready to GIVE MY LIFE TO THE LORD for REAL. After hours of MOURNING and WEEPING, I prayed over my UTTER SINFUL LIFESTYLE, "LORD FORGIVE ME, FORGIVE ME! I you have purpose for my Life, then you will have to come into my life, because I CAN'T DO IT. I am making a TOTAL MESS OF MY LIFE." No one ever taught me how to pray like that, I believe it had to come from the HOLY SPIRIT. That was a complete SURRENDER to JESUS CHRIST, out of LOVE FOR HIM, repenting of my entire LIFESTYLE. I KNOW NO OTHER WAY TO GENUINE SALVATION, THAT IS THE NARROW GATE. Remember the MANY entered the wrong GATE. NO I DO NOT THINK I EVER WAS SAVED, PRIOR TO DEC. 30, 1977, if I remember right, when I was 29 years old. Prior to that I was a so-called Christian on the WRONG ROAD, attempting to COME THRU THE WRONG GATE.

So Please STOP WITH THE OSAS and Eternal Security INSULTS, because YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OUR BELIEFS, and only repeated the INSULTS from Pastors who ALSO knew NOTHING ABOUT OUR BELIEFS.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Those who stand against the truths of the bible teach the following....

a. Saved to the uttermost means not saved at all
b. Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise means not sealed
c. I will never leave the means he will leave thee
d. Nor forsake the means he will forsake thee
e. Eternal life means conditional and temporary
f. Everlasting life means conditional and temporary
g. In the Father's hand means not in the Father's hand
h. In Christ's hand means not in Christ's hand
i. Nothing shall separate us from the Love of God means something will separate us from the love of God
j. Kept by the power of God means God has no power and we are thrown under the bus
k. I give unto them eternal life means he gives us temporary life
l. Saved by faith means saved by self service and what we do
m. When I see the blood I will pass over you means God will not pass over cause the blood of Christ is ineffectual
n. Where sin abounds grace did much more abound means God's grace is weak and our sin is more powerful
o. Saved does not mean saved
p. Justified by faith/blood means rendered guilty and the blood is ineffectual
q. Sanctified eternally in Christ means NOT sanctified in Christ
r. Christ beginning a work of faith means He did not do it we did it
s. Jesus finishing a work of faith in us means he is weak and cannot finish it because we must finish it for him
t. Jesus completing the work of faith is us means we must complete it because Jesus is weak and ineffectual and cannot complete it
u. ETC

The above is exactly what ALL those who believe salvation can be lost or forfeit believe...regardless of their denial......end of story.
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Hello again!
...... other than believe?
Scripture says " the devils also believe.."

Let Father Abraham, the Father of Faith be an example to us.

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Taking God at His word is more than just "believing"

Even so, still pray for those whose came, those on the way and those not giving Him a thought.....
God Bless.....
 
Jul 17, 2017
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Those who stand against the truths of the bible teach the following....

a. Saved to the uttermost means not saved at all
b. Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise means not sealed
c. I will never leave the means he will leave thee
d. Nor forsake the means he will forsake thee
e. Eternal life means conditional and temporary
f. Everlasting life means conditional and temporary
g. In the Father's hand means not in the Father's hand
h. In Christ's hand means not in Christ's hand
i. Nothing shall separate us from the Love of God means something will separate us from the love of God
j. Kept by the power of God means God has no power and we are thrown under the bus
k. I give unto them eternal life means he gives us temporary life
l. Saved by faith means saved by self service and what we do
m. When I see the blood I will pass over you means God will not pass over cause the blood of Christ is ineffectual
n. Where sin abounds grace did much more abound means God's grace is weak and our sin is more powerful
o. Saved does not mean saved
p. Justified by faith/blood means rendered guilty and the blood is ineffectual
q. Sanctified eternally in Christ means NOT sanctified in Christ
r. Christ beginning a work of faith means He did not do it we did it
s. Jesus finishing a work of faith in us means he is weak and cannot finish it because we must finish it for him
t. Jesus completing the work of faith is us means we must complete it because Jesus is weak and ineffectual and cannot complete it
u. ETC

The above is exactly what ALL those who believe salvation can be lost or forfeit believe...regardless of their denial......end of story.
Never has their been truer words spoken, amen decon!
 
Oct 31, 2015
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1 John 2:19-21 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

What does this have to do with those who Jesus plainly said believed?


Did John mention those who went "out from us" believed?


You just decide to pick out a verse in the bible that has nothing what so ever to do with what Jesus actually and literally said, which is these in verse 13 believed for awhile.


13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


These who believed, were persecuted because they did in fact believe, and while being persecuted, they chose to save their [natural] life, and lost their soul.


35 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it. 36 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Mark 8:35-36



I'm not referring to tares. Tares are sown by the devil.


You are mixing together two different parables: The parable of the Sower, and the parable of the Tares.

  • the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom
  • but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.


36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:37-43



There will be sons of the kingdom, who are cast into outer darkness.



10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:10-12


  • But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”





JPT
 
Nov 12, 2015
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...WHILE WATCHING "WALKING DEAD"...

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is DEAD, so faith without deeds is DEAD .

Revelation 3:1 .... I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD .
I never saw Revelation 3:1 so starkly...!
By their deeds/works, they had a good reputation with men. They had the reputation of being men of God.
They would be an example of works without faith...
Interesting.
 
May 20, 2018
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I was wondering if I could ask the audience?

"Those who do not believe are condemned already."

What?
Well what if things chang next week? Tomorrow? In 10 minutes?

Condemned ALREADY?
Welp that sucks. Might as well head out to rape and pillage.

The only logical reasoning my finite mind can come up with concerning this statement is that He knew who that would be from eternity past. A small hint of his eternal knowledge and existence.
I dunno, just a silly question I guess, but it does have me wondering.
A


..
Ah but when were they blotted out?

At the beginning of time but revealed at the end of time?
After all if God knows everything then from the beginning of time we are not even in the book at the end of time.

So blotted out at the beginning.

If that is not the case where is the security of salvation, what is the security of salvation?


what scripture says He will blot out names from the book of Life??
 
Feb 8, 2018
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I am not saying that AT ALL......I believe 3 of the 4 were saved and remained saved......

a. One had no root and was easily offended and in immaturity and offence fell away yet remained saved
b. One was saved but allowed the riches of the world to choke out the fruit yet remained saved
c. one was saved, faithful, matured and bore fruit

The bible supports all three views above concerning the saved.
So now in this forum we have at least 3 interpretation of the parable of the sower:

1) benhur and justpassinthrough say that the seed on the stony soil were saved for a while, but because of temptation and persecution they rejected Jesus and fell away and lost their salvation.

2) noname says that the seed that fell on the stony soil were not saved and remained unsaved.

3) decon and I am sure TT say that the seed that fell on stony soil was saved for a while, but rejected Christ and fell away, but remained saved.

Which one is right?
 
Jul 17, 2017
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I was wondering if I could ask the audience?

"Those who do not believe are condemned already."

What?
Well what if things chang next week? Tomorrow? In 10 minutes?

Condemned ALREADY?
Welp that sucks. Might as well head out to rape and pillage.

The only logical reasoning my finite mind can come up with concerning this statement is that He knew who that would be from eternity past. A small hint of his eternal knowledge and existence.
I dunno, just a silly question I guess, but it does have me wondering.
A


..




what scripture says He will blot out names from the book of Life??
Hi Soc1alon3

"Now is the day of salvation", Who was John's audience, probably the local residence where these words where spoken including everyone who has read this Gospel up to today. Salvation is for today not tomorrow and not 10 minutes from now.

The only breath we are promised is the last breath we just took, and what about the guy who wanted to go bury a relative, he lost his opportunity for salvation. Was he saved later in his life, the bible is silent about the subject.

Makes sense to me, "choose today whom you will serve"

2Corinthians6:2
For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor,

now is the day of salvation."
 
Feb 8, 2018
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i can only tell you the truth

that doesnt mean you will hear it ben

if you wish to learn how to understand the bible

youre going to need the Holy spirit to guide your studies


not lean on your own understanding



you can claim Jesus is "into" whatever you want


it doesnt change the truth
You seem to have a rather arrogant thought that because I do not believe what you believe 100%, that I do not have the Holy Spirit with me. That would be a mistake on your part.

If I gave you 20 sayings of Jesus would you be willing to divide them into words pertaining to the law, and words pertaining to grace?
 
Feb 8, 2018
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Keep thinking that.....your conflating two words in pure ignorance....was it still a SHEEP or did it turn into a GOAT.....yeah we know you cannot answer truthfully....as dense as lead pal!
Wow, decon, you truly must have hate in your heart. Stop with the horrible descriptions of a Christian brother, even if he disagrees with you.
 
Feb 8, 2018
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I never saw Revelation 3:1 so starkly...!
By their deeds/works, they had a good reputation with men. They had the reputation of being men of God.
They would be an example of works without faith...
Interesting.
Whos says they didn't start out with faith? What we do know is that if they do not repent they will be lost and lose their salvation.
 
Feb 8, 2018
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Amen Baptism is a ceremonial law that serves ceremonies to represent the kingdom of priests. They that are used as parables or shadows of the good things. They can never make a person complete perfect.
If Jesus needed baptism to be complet and perfect, then so do we.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I was wondering if I could ask the audience?

"Those who do not believe are condemned already."

What?
Well what if things chang next week? Tomorrow? In 10 minutes?

Condemned ALREADY?
Welp that sucks. Might as well head out to rape and pillage.

The only logical reasoning my finite mind can come up with concerning this statement is that He knew who that would be from eternity past. A small hint of his eternal knowledge and existence.
I dunno, just a silly question I guess, but it does have me wondering.
A


..




what scripture says He will blot out names from the book of Life??
I don't think it's a silly question at all. When I am struggling with a verse, it's usually because I'm forgetting an atribute of God. If I'm wondering how God can say: written in the book from the foundation of the world, I'm forgetting temporarily that He sees the end of each of us from the beginning. When He was creating the world, He already knew of me.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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So now in this forum we have at least 3 interpretation of the parable of the sower:

1) benhur and justpassinthrough say that the seed on the stony soil were saved for a while, but because of temptation and persecution they rejected Jesus and fell away and lost their salvation.

That is what Jesus taught.


JPT
 
May 6, 2017
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You seem to have a rather arrogant thought that because I do not believe what you believe 100%, that I do not have the Holy Spirit with me. That would be a mistake on your part.

If I gave you 20 sayings of Jesus would you be willing to divide them into words pertaining to the law, and words pertaining to grace?

first you ignore many of my questions....

then you accuse me of saying you do not even have the Holy Spirit with you...


whatever ben

i have no idea what the state of your heart is or if you have the Holy spirit

i only know many of you conclusions are from your own understanding and not the Holy spirit because they are wrong...

please stop pretending im out to get you


im not
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Whos says they didn't start out with faith? What we do know is that if they do not repent they will be lost and lose their salvation.
Actually, I didn't say whether they ever had faith, had faith and then lost faith, or anything concerning it.
I was just noting that they had a reputation that they were men of God but that Jesus says although they have that reputation that they are alive, they are not. They are dead.