Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,485
2,310
113
I am....why.....because it proves that I am a child of the King.......I have been through it and for sure it sucked at the time....but hindsight is 20/20.....when looking back......I thanked God he whipped the crap out of me in love as a son.
I would be interested to know your thoughts on how God disciplines us.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,391
11,556
113
I would be interested to know your thoughts on how God disciplines us.
Well......when viewing the Psalms, David suffered physical ailments and disease, the sword in his house, the loss of children and God yanks financial blessings to boot....and has even taken lives like the Corinthian brothers that "fell asleep" for their corruption of the Lord's supper...there is no set gambit per se.....like the children of Israel were made to wander in the wilderness with no real rest in this life....one struggle after another......In my own life he took almost everything I put stock in, yanked financial blessings and I wandered for numerous years with little rest and peace.........one thing I believe we can know for sure...that God's hand is upon us and we are being chastened for our own disobedience.......I also believe the whipping comes when we finally acknowledge our sin and then reap the reward....and for sure God is long suffering and gives us time to repent and get right before he whips us........
 
Feb 5, 2019
92
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I would be interested to know your thoughts on how God disciplines us.
in simple terms , words have meaning, the meaning to the word gentile
gentile Dictionary result for gentile
/ˈdʒɛntʌɪl/
adjective

  1. 1.
    not Jewish.
    "a predominantly Gentile audience"



  2. 2.
    ANTHROPOLOGY
    relating to or indicating a nation or clan, especially a gens.
noun

  1. 1.
    a person who is not Jewish.
isa 49
he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

acts 15, what law to give a gentile.

romans 8 v1 and 2,

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.

by gods salvation we are free for condemnation from law and the fear of death.


the law given through the Torah

TorahDictionary result for Torah
/ˈtɔːrɑː,tɔːˈrɑː/
noun
singular proper noun: Torah
  1. (in Judaism) the law of God as revealed to Moses and recorded in the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures (the Pentateuch).

in simple terms by reading the torah , your have opened up and understanding of being condemned and condemnation by this law, and to die in no hope of saving your self.
for example
fear, rejection , being exposed to unworthness , being exposed to the word sin, bein condemned no hope of being saved from death. etc

in real terms the law is condemning you, for understanding what a sin is.

( answer and protection by the shield in the armour of god) given by believing in a saviour
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.

the fact that you understand , a definition to what a sin is, by reading words, yet cannot understand what power or force is condemn you,

goes to show there is something wrong in your understanding and you cannot see fully to gods understanding without the holy spirits, help to define what is condemning you and ware your understanding stops. and clicks in to gods protection etc
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
920
87
28
64
believe means a mental activity.

same thing I told just passing through- words have definitions.
You will not overcome the world and obtain a crown of life by a mental activity, I think you should know that also a mental activity could be without faith or faith without work.
I understand there is a salvation that applies to the whole world, that everyone will receive according to his works you don't have to believe for this. Believe is "Faith that works by Love." and Love is the Holy Spirit. I left arguing here and maybe should leave altogether. if you all stop replying I will not have a reason to be here. as for why believe involves Faith, "I believe Lord help my Unbelief." 'Whatever is not of Faith is sin." its because of sin that we have unbelief and that we have no Faith. Everything we have is a gift, according to obedience of Faith.
 
Feb 5, 2019
92
32
18
You will not overcome the world and obtain a crown of life by a mental activity, I think you should know that also a mental activity could be without faith or faith without work.
I understand there is a salvation that applies to the whole world, that everyone will receive according to his works you don't have to believe for this. Believe is "Faith that works by Love." and Love is the Holy Spirit. I left arguing here and maybe should leave altogether. if you all stop replying I will not have a reason to be here. as for why believe involves Faith, "I believe Lord help my Unbelief." 'Whatever is not of Faith is sin." its because of sin that we have unbelief and that we have no Faith. Everything we have is a gift, according to obedience of Faith.
the bigger picture is not all nations on earth , believe the same things, or have the same law of the land.

for example
the law given through the Torah ,

jesus was condemned by people in Judaism , by the torah law, and he said or implied to them , that law will condemn you , (people who use it wrongly in judgement of others)

42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. (acts 10)
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,258
113
in simple terms , words have meaning, the meaning to the word gentile
gentile Dictionary result for gentile
/ˈdʒɛntʌɪl/
adjective

  1. 1.
    not Jewish.
    "a predominantly Gentile audience"


  2. 2.
    ANTHROPOLOGY
    relating to or indicating a nation or clan, especially a gens.
noun

  1. 1.
    a person who is not Jewish.
isa 49
he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

acts 15, what law to give a gentile.

romans 8 v1 and 2,

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.

by gods salvation we are free for condemnation from law and the fear of death.


the law given through the Torah

TorahDictionary result for Torah
/ˈtɔːrɑː,tɔːˈrɑː/
noun
singular proper noun: Torah
  1. (in Judaism) the law of God as revealed to Moses and recorded in the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures (the Pentateuch).

in simple terms by reading the torah , your have opened up and understanding of being condemned and condemnation by this law, and to die in no hope of saving your self.
for example
fear, rejection , being exposed to unworthness , being exposed to the word sin, bein condemned no hope of being saved from death. etc

in real terms the law is condemning you, for understanding what a sin is.

( answer and protection by the shield in the armour of god) given by believing in a saviour
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.

the fact that you understand , a definition to what a sin is, by reading words, yet cannot understand what power or force is condemn you,

goes to show there is something wrong in your understanding and you cannot see fully to gods understanding without the holy spirits, help to define what is condemning you and ware your understanding stops. and clicks in to gods protection etc
Hi historyanswers, I appreciate your posting definitions of "gentile" and "Torah" and I agree that there is now, "No condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus", Romans 8:1

It appears that you agree with this thread, "Not By Works", that we have eternal salvation "by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and that, not of yourself, it is a gift of God, "not by works" Ephesians2:8-10.

I hope you enjoy your time here and God bless!

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.
9) not by works, so that no one can boast.…
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,485
2,310
113
in simple terms , words have meaning, the meaning to the word gentile
gentile Dictionary result for gentile
/ˈdʒɛntʌɪl/
adjective

  1. 1.
    not Jewish.
    "a predominantly Gentile audience"


  2. 2.
    ANTHROPOLOGY
    relating to or indicating a nation or clan, especially a gens.
noun

  1. 1.
    a person who is not Jewish.
isa 49
he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

acts 15, what law to give a gentile.

romans 8 v1 and 2,

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.

by gods salvation we are free for condemnation from law and the fear of death.


the law given through the Torah

TorahDictionary result for Torah
/ˈtɔːrɑː,tɔːˈrɑː/
noun
singular proper noun: Torah
  1. (in Judaism) the law of God as revealed to Moses and recorded in the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures (the Pentateuch).

in simple terms by reading the torah , your have opened up and understanding of being condemned and condemnation by this law, and to die in no hope of saving your self.
for example
fear, rejection , being exposed to unworthness , being exposed to the word sin, bein condemned no hope of being saved from death. etc

in real terms the law is condemning you, for understanding what a sin is.

( answer and protection by the shield in the armour of god) given by believing in a saviour
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.

the fact that you understand , a definition to what a sin is, by reading words, yet cannot understand what power or force is condemn you,

goes to show there is something wrong in your understanding and you cannot see fully to gods understanding without the holy spirits, help to define what is condemning you and ware your understanding stops. and clicks in to gods protection etc
Sorry but you have lost me.

I'm a simple man
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
6,485
2,310
113
Well......when viewing the Psalms, David suffered physical ailments and disease, the sword in his house, the loss of children and God yanks financial blessings to boot....and has even taken lives like the Corinthian brothers that "fell asleep" for their corruption of the Lord's supper...there is no set gambit per se.....like the children of Israel were made to wander in the wilderness with no real rest in this life....one struggle after another......In my own life he took almost everything I put stock in, yanked financial blessings and I wandered for numerous years with little rest and peace.........one thing I believe we can know for sure...that God's hand is upon us and we are being chastened for our own disobedience.......I also believe the whipping comes when we finally acknowledge our sin and then reap the reward....and for sure God is long suffering and gives us time to repent and get right before he whips us........
Thanks for replying.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
878
799
93
One thing I find interesting...especially with those that peddle a losable salvation, is the simple fact that many flat ignore the absolute truth that when a saved child of God wanders too far and sinks in sin to the point that their conscience is seared that GOD will bring out the one tool that most ignore and or over look.....THAT BEING CHASTISEMENT......

GOD only WHIPS SONS and there is only one reason WHY HE WHIPS SONS---->disobedience/rebellion/sin/walking contrary

I have asked this question many times of ALL that say one who is sinning cannot possibly be saved and NONE of them have answered when I asked...

WHO DOES GOD WHIP AND WHY?
I can honestly say that I have been chastised before.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
878
799
93
As a new Christian listening to longtime Christians, I actually believed that if I did just one bad thing, I'd be lost and have to go back to accept Christ. How damaging is that to the Cause of Jesus Christ?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,258
113
As a new Christian listening to longtime Christians, I actually believed that if I did just one bad thing, I'd be lost and have to go back to accept Christ. How damaging is that to the Cause of Jesus Christ?
Hi Star, I would call that spiritual abuse if you were counseled this way and it is obvious the Holy Spirit has healed you and brought you back on the right path, God bless!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,391
11,556
113
As a new Christian listening to longtime Christians, I actually believed that if I did just one bad thing, I'd be lost and have to go back to accept Christ. How damaging is that to the Cause of Jesus Christ?
I know......love casts out all fear......we are to reverence God like a Father and our Father will light us up if we continually walk in a manner of disobedience......after a period of time where love, mercy and conviction is leveled against us.....and even when he whips us he tempers it with love and compassion.....
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
2,835
1,978
113
As a new Christian listening to longtime Christians, I actually believed that if I did just one bad thing, I'd be lost and have to go back to accept Christ. How damaging is that to the Cause of Jesus Christ?
I've given my life to Jesus a thousand times as well.

I've been in that kind of environment too.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
67,687
5,568
113
how holy can you be, if god already lives in you, in the day you first believed jesus to be your saviour.




john said this,
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.1 John 4


Romans 11:29
29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.
no

God's and Jesus' names really should be capitalized.. just saying..
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
67,687
5,568
113
I know......love casts out all fear......we are to reverence God like a Father and our Father will light us up if we continually walk in a manner of disobedience......after a period of time where love, mercy and conviction is leveled against us.....and even when he whips us he tempers it with love and compassion.....

1st John 4v18.jpg
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
1 Corinthians 7:1
Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

Hi Macabeus, I like your choice of screen names. Concerning 2 Corinthians 7:1, I believe we are both "made holy", 1Colossians 1:22; through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christs on a Roman cross. And we are also responsible to pursue a life of holy living for the rest of our earthly life. Colossians 1:23.

My only point here is that I do not support the heresy of sinless perfectionism, there are not 2 types of Christians in the world, and from reading your post's you are opposed to sinless perfectionism as well.

Please excuse me if my post is out of place or off topic, I just wanted to add my comment and say nice to meet you.

Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord

Hebrews 10:10
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all
Christians are "made holy once for all", Hebrews 10:10 and Christians have a responsibility to pursue a Holy Life.
I agree 1000 percent with you
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
No, actually we are justified by faith....

Therefore, we conclude, that a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law <----Paul who was inspired.....you not so much!
No, actually we are justified by faith....

Therefore, we conclude, that a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law <----Paul who was inspired.....you not so much!
Salvation is a big pile of presents. Open one box, WOW, regeneration/Holy Spirit. Open another, WOW! Justification. Another, adoption papers! Thank you God! Fellowship with God! Another. Sanctification! I love it. Another, hope! On and on and on. Then another. Open the package. It contains the purpose of God for your life. The good works which God has chosen for us to walk in.

Good works are not a merit, they are one of the gifts included in our endowment.

So while you are only talking about one gift, which is wonderful, we are looking at the many facets of the diamond God has given us.

Please do not fault us for that
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
2,535
705
113
1 Corinthians 7:1
Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

Hi Macabeus, I like your choice of screen names. Concerning 2 Corinthians 7:1, I believe we are both "made holy", 1Colossians 1:22; through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christs on a Roman cross. And we are also responsible to pursue a life of holy living for the rest of our earthly life. Colossians 1:23.

My only point here is that I do not support the heresy of sinless perfectionism, there are not 2 types of Christians in the world, and from reading your post's you are opposed to sinless perfectionism as well.

Please excuse me if my post is out of place or off topic, I just wanted to add my comment and say nice to meet you.

Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord

Hebrews 10:10
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all
Christians are "made holy once for all", Hebrews 10:10 and Christians have a responsibility to pursue a Holy Life.
I was in a bit of a rush earlier, so I responded briefly. I agree with you on all you said. I believe in justification by faith alone, and do not believe we can add anything to Christ’s work. I do not see works, repentance, sanctification, fruit bearing, or commandment keeping as parts we do to be saved. I see them ALL as gifts and graces of God. They are all facets on the multifaceted diamond in the ring God has given us