Not By Works

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stillness

stillness

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#83,901
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
#83,901
"If any man thinks he knows, he does not know as he should."
If we think we know we stop l,earning and stay where we are.
We don't know God in our understanding, "Lean not on your understanding but Trust in the Lord," believing to be empowered by the Holy Spirit to do the Will of God: to count it all Joy, continue in Prayer, thankful in everything; doing the Will of God empowers us to follow Jesus in the work of God: summed up in believing in Jesus, "He that sais He lives in Him is to walk even as Jesus walk." We don't know God in our understanding. "If I have all knowledge and understand all mysteries and have not Love I am nothing.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
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Dec 27, 2018
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#83,902
gb9 said:
believe means a mental activity.

same thing I told just passing through- words have definitions.
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Laying aside the definition of belief for another time, REGENERATION involved more than a mental activity. In fact, regeneration is not our doing, it is the work of God. AND PLEASE REMEMBER that our belief is not the effectual power or cause of our salvation. God saves. And salvation NEITHER BEGINS with our belief nor DOES is it end with justification.

Before we believed, God did things to bring us to faith, and after we believe God does MANY things to complete His work in us.

It's not just believe, justified, die, and glorified. There's a LOT of things God does before we believe and a lot of things God does in between justification and death.

Faith is not the beginning and justification is not the end of God's grace and work in this life. As it is written, He is the author and finisher of our faith, and again He who has done a good work in you will complete it unto the day of Christ.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#83,903
Dec 27, 2018
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#83,903
Macabeus said:
Laying aside the definition of belief for another time, REGENERATION involved more than a mental activity. In fact, regeneration is not our doing, it is the work of God. AND PLEASE REMEMBER that our belief is not the effectual power or cause of our salvation. God saves. And salvation NEITHER BEGINS with our belief nor DOES is it end with justification.

Before we believed, God did things to bring us to faith, and after we believe God does MANY things to complete His work in us.

It's not just believe, justified, die, and glorified. There's a LOT of things God does before we believe and a lot of things God does in between justification and death.

Faith is not the beginning and justification is not the end of God's grace and work in this life. As it is written, He is the author and finisher of our faith, and again He who has done a good work in you will complete it unto the day of Christ.
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Addendum. Correction. It could theoretically go grace, faith, justified, die, glorify in some cases, like the thief on the cross, but my last post was dealing with salvation in those who do not almost immedietely die
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#83,904
Jan 18, 2011
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#83,904
Macabeus said:
Laying aside the definition of belief for another time, REGENERATION involved more than a mental activity. In fact, regeneration is not our doing, it is the work of God. AND PLEASE REMEMBER that our belief is not the effectual power or cause of our salvation. God saves. And salvation NEITHER BEGINS with our belief nor DOES is it end with justification.

Before we believed, God did things to bring us to faith, and after we believe God does MANY things to complete His work in us.

It's not just believe, justified, die, and glorified. There's a LOT of things God does before we believe and a lot of things God does in between justification and death.

Faith is not the beginning and justification is not the end of God's grace and work in this life. As it is written, He is the author and finisher of our faith, and again He who has done a good work in you will complete it unto the day of Christ.
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I am not saying " believe " and then do nothing, die, and go straight into the kingdom. a true believer will produce good works.

I am saying the only thing that saves is belief ( mental activity ) .


grace-faith-works. that is the Biblical way.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#83,905
Jan 18, 2011
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#83,905
stillness said:
your quoting me here: that you will not overcome by your understanding of words, take your own advice, in your own words. The languages were confused purposly so we would not attain unity until we walk in the Holy Spirit and obviously remain so until we are full of the Holy Spirit walking in Love.
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so, let me guess- a true Christian has the Holy Sprit, ( as do you ). the Holy Sprit will enlighten one with the true meaning of Scripture ( as you know ), so as long as one believes just as you , then they are saved ( as are you ).

no thank you, this type of " Don't trust the Bible " junk should thrown out.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#83,906
Apr 7, 2014
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#83,906
gb9 said:
I am not saying "believe" and then do nothing, die, and go straight into the kingdom. a true believer will produce good works.

I am saying the only thing that saves is belief (mental activity).

grace-faith-works. that is the Biblical way.
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When you say belief (mental activity) certain people may misunderstand you to be saying mere "mental assent" belief, like the demons have in James 2:19. They believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Of course, saving belief goes beyond mere "mental assent" belief, for example:
I believe (mental assent) that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened."

If belief stops there, that would be merely believing in our head. In Romans 10:9, we read "..believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead." When we believe in our heart, we not only believe in our head that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" we also TRUST in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

I have no doubt that you believe in your heart brother, but just wanted to point this out for those who may misunderstand what you are saying. We are absolutely saved by grace through faith (not by works) but UNTO/FOR good works. (y)
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#83,907
Jan 18, 2011
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#83,907
mailmandan said:
When you say belief (mental activity) certain people may misunderstand you to be saying mere "mental assent" belief, like the demons have in James 2:19. They believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Of course, saving belief goes beyond mere "mental assent" belief, for example:
I believe (mental assent) that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened."

If belief stops there, that would be merely believing in our head. In Romans 10:9, we read "..believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead." When we believe in our heart, we not only believe in our head that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" we also TRUST in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

I have no doubt that you believe in your heart brother, but just wanted to point this out for those who may misunderstand what you are saying. We are absolutely saved by grace through faith (not by works) but UNTO/FOR good works. (y)
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what I have been and will say is this- words have definitions.

when the definition of words are tossed out, and others are attached ( like believe means works or command keeping ), then that is wrong.

so, I agree with what you say, I also say " true belief will result in good works , that of course goes beyond mental activity ".
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#83,908
Dec 12, 2013
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#83,908
Guojing said:
Is salvation a free gift to you?

If you choose to offer something for free to anyone, do you ever attach conditions like, "In order for you to keep this free gift, you must do X, Y and Z after you accept it?"

How would any potential recipient of your gift reply to you?
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Exactly....a free gift and the bible states clearly that the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE......<----God does not take it back if you fail to x, z and z.............
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#83,909
Apr 7, 2014
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#83,909
gb9 said:
what I have been and will say is this- words have definitions.

when the definition of words are tossed out, and others are attached ( like believe means works or command keeping ), then that is wrong.

so, I agree with what you say, I also say " true belief will result in good works , that of course goes beyond mental activity ".
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Amen! You and I have both witnessed people "attaching works" to the definition of "believe" multiple times with the end result being works salvation. As I have shared with others on CC before, I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that he does not believe that salvation is by works, then afterwards, contradicted himself by making this statement below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

Good example above of how certain people re-define words and the end results is works salvation.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#83,910
AMEN......the Pharisees equated the work of Christ to the power of the devil....a state of unbelief.....one cannot be forgiven if they will not believe!
 
M

Macabeus

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#83,911
gb9 said:
I am not saying " believe " and then do nothing, die, and go straight into the kingdom. a true believer will produce good works.

I am saying the only thing that saves is belief ( mental activity ) .


grace-faith-works. that is the Biblical way.
Click to expand...
True about good works. They do not save, but are one of the things God blesses and gifts us with. They are a gift, not a merit we earn

Belief alone does not save. Neither does belief plus works. The power and Grace of God saves. The power and Grace of God saves THROUGH faith

I do not think belief is merely a mental activity. Not belief as the Bible teaches it. It is an effect wrought by hearing the Gospel and being drawn by God. It's much more powerful than the act of exercising your mind, more powerful than the exercise of the mind and will. Because it is wrought of God.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#83,912
gb9 said:
so, let me guess- a true Christian has the Holy Sprit, ( as do you ). the Holy Sprit will enlighten one with the true meaning of Scripture ( as you know ), so as long as one believes just as you , then they are saved ( as are you ).

no thank you, this type of " Don't trust the Bible " junk should thrown out.
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The simplicity found in Christ..........believe the words......

it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.......END of story......we are saved, justified and sanctified positionally by and through faith ALONE.....then we are to grow, mature and transform dia Romans 12:1-2.......then and only then will be begin to ear fruit.........

Saved FOR not BY works............and then we get into the I keep myself saved fruit inspectors.......like many on this site.........exactly how many "apples" does it take to prove a tree is an apple tree?

And lest we all forget....an apple tree is an apple tree from the MOMENT it sprouts and several years before it produces 1 piece of fruit
 
M

Macabeus

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#83,913
Dec 27, 2018
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#83,913
dcontroversal said:
Exactly....a free gift and the bible states clearly that the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE......<----God does not take it back if you fail to x, z and z.............
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And of course that was never what I said. Everything good, including works is a gift of God. Christ gave Himself for us to redeem a prized people zealous of good works. It's not a condition laid on the gift, it's PART of the gift. What a joy it is.
 
M

Macabeus

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#83,914
Dec 27, 2018
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#83,914
Faith is more than our belief, in that it is impossible to truly believe apart from a work from God preceding it. If you say it is our belief only that saves, then you take away the power and efficacy that saves us
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#83,915
Macabeus said:
And of course that was never what I said. Everything good, including works is a gift of God. Christ gave Himself for us to redeem a prized people zealous of good works. It's not a condition laid on the gift, it's PART of the gift. What a joy it is.
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Quote two sets of verses in context that sates verbatim that works are gift from God
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#83,916
Jan 18, 2011
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#83,916
Macabeus said:
Faith is more than our belief, in that it is impossible to truly believe apart from a work from God preceding it. If you say it is our belief only that saves, then you take away the power and efficacy that saves us
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can you not comprehend what is written?

I said " a true believer will do good works " I am not saying that being a Christian is just a mental activity. I am saying that one is saved by grace, through faith , for good works, as Paul said.

salvation is only granted to those who believe in Christ for salvation. those who truly believe will do good works. hope that is clear enough.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#83,918
Dec 27, 2018
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#83,918
I
gb9 said:
can you not comprehend what is written?

I said " a true believer will do good works " I am not saying that being a Christian is just a mental activity. I am saying that one is saved by grace, through faith , for good works, as Paul said.

salvation is only granted to those who believe in Christ for salvation. those who truly believe will do good works. hope that is clear enough.
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I know what you said about works. But you said belief is a mental activity. But faith is not something a person does on their own strength or will alone, it is an effect wrought of God through the Gospel and His Spirit.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#83,919
Macabeus said:
Ok, John 6:44-65 and Ephesians 2: 1-10.
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Nice...neither set states verbatim that works are a gift from God.....that would be your embellishment.......try again.....this time back your point that WORKS are a GIFT FROM GOD by scripture in context without your embellishment.....
 
M

Macabeus

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#83,920
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#83,920
dcontroversal said:
Nice...neither set states verbatim that works are a gift from God.....that would be your embellishment.......try again.....this time back your point that WORKS are a GIFT FROM GOD by scripture in context without your embellishment.....
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I thought you knew Greek.

Anyways, where is the doctrine of the Trinity stated verbatim? Or do you not believe that either? I believe it Two places verbatim please
 
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