Not By Works

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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It appears in this view we are not transformed into His likeness, purified and whole, it is Christ within
no matter how sinfull we are makes us holy, pure blameless. In this version we can enter heaven
as sinners for the same logic and live as sinners in eternity. Not going to happen. Next :)
Yes....Right....

Revelation 21:27 came to mind....
27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Only in your mind you didn't expand it. You love to ignore when and why the creeds were created, 212 to 500 and no printing press. Therefore Bibles were rare and very expensive. This was the case for all written words. Memorization of long passages was common. Since Bibles were very expensive and hard to come by memorization was the norm. The elders created the creeds in order to pass the gospel message.

Why do you constantly give 21st-century abilities to the time up to the printing press. You ignore prior to that scribes were the equivalent of a printing press. Everything copied by hand making it expensive and rare. Why are you so deliberately obtuse?? Are you trying to anger me?? You keep putting 21st-century technology to the early elders. Bible only!! Why??? Explain where any Creed is in error keeping in mind when and why they were created. They define what a Christian must believe!!!! They were and are an evangelism tool! Quit acting like what Jesus rode into Jerusalem on.
Back in the iggy bin....I have no time for religious ignorance and or spiritual ineptitude...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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I am trying to understand your point, it is not clear to me.

If ask a question it is obviously me not putting words in your mouth I am seeking clarification?

No matter, since I am pretty sure I do not agree, if you are saying that we must have proof of works and faith to be saved???
He is and still peddling catholic creeds over the bible.....I made the error of engaging him in hopes that he might not be full of flippant mouthy responses and not peddle or push a creed over the bible.....bad mistake.....
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Yes ma’am.


All of us should be encouraging each other on towards doing what is right which is loving God, by loving our neighbor, which involves doing good to people.


That is what the Doctrine of Christ is all about.


Loving God, and loving our neighbor.



For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3



If we are loving people and doing them good, we will not be stealing and lying or coveting what they have.


Acts of love towards others is expressing the righteous Life of Christ dwelling within us.





JPT
Amen.

In the letter to the Galatians, Paul said:


Galatians 6:9-10

Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.​

It's always been a mystery to me why some here give such push-back to good deeds....
as if God does NOT want us to obey Him....and as if Jesus did not teach this.

Colossians 1:10-12

so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.​
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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@VCO Endoscopy plainly states no works no faith


Since you are in agreement with him, how many works to prove our faith?

Do we look to our works for evidence of our salvation?

Is this what you do, this is a very precarious place to put one's trust, the evidence one's works?

Can we separate out what God commands for salvation and what He commands for a worthy walk?

I propose that if we read John 15 about "abiding" they are separate.

Now people with traditional view will not separate salvation from fellowship....now I am truly curious VCO where you are on this?
Going to be MANY surprised people in that day....But Lord have we not done in your name..........the works are irrelevant ......He looks for FAITH.......and most or too dense or deceived to figure out that simple truth!
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Only in your mind you didn't expand it. You love to ignore when and why the creeds were created, 212 to 500 and no printing press. Therefore Bibles were rare and very expensive. This was the case for all written words. Memorization of long passages was common. Since Bibles were very expensive and hard to come by memorization was the norm. The elders created the creeds in order to pass the gospel message.

Why do you constantly give 21st-century abilities to the time up to the printing press. You ignore prior to that scribes were the equivalent of a printing press. Everything copied by hand making it expensive and rare. Why are you so deliberately obtuse?? Are you trying to anger me?? You keep putting 21st-century technology to the early elders. Bible only!! Why??? Explain where any Creed is in error keeping in mind when and why they were created. They define what a Christian must believe!!!! They were and are an evangelism tool! Quit acting like what Jesus rode into Jerusalem on.
Creeds, of one form or another are used in almost every church.
The Statement of Faith of these sites is almost like a creed.
What one believes.
I can safely say that the Nicene Creed of 325 AD is a short summary of what it means to be called a Christian ... or what one must believe to be called a Christian, I should say.

Unfortunately, not everyone respects the ECFs who kept our current faith alive and in tact and some of whom knew the Apostles personally,,,,like Ignatius and Clement of Rome, and others.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Maybe you can show us where in scriptures does it say that salvation was irrevocably given as an eternal gift.

Now scripture did say that the "GIFTS" and calling are irrevocable .

"GIFTS" and not gift.

Israel is the recipient of these IRREVOCABLE "GIFTS" and calling.

...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE..
Maybe you can read the bible and find it yourself......but I won't hold my breath......I fully expect you to reject statements like...

It is the GIFT of God, not of works lest...

Those whom he CALLS he justifies

You stuff like that......
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,119
17,460
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Creeds, of one form or another are used in almost every church.
The Statement of Faith of these sites is almost like a creed.
What one believes.
I can safely say that the Nicene Creed of 325 AD is a short summary of what it means to be called a Christian ... or what one must believe to be called a Christian, I should say.

Unfortunately, not everyone respects the ECFs who kept our current faith alive and in tact and some of whom knew the Apostles personally,,,,like Ignatius and Clement of Rome, and others.
The above statement not only reeks of complete ignorance but also denies the Hand of God and his ability to KEEP FAITH ALIVE.....

We are still waiting on your honesty Fran...

How can we take you serious....you peddle obedience, yet are disobedient to the rules of a Christian website which prohibits former banned members from coming back in under another name......

Can you answer honestly....Are you Fran that was banned and now back under a different name?

Yes or no......simple answer....
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Maybe you can show us where in scriptures does it say that salvation was irrevocably given as an eternal gift.

Now scripture did say that the "GIFTS" and calling are irrevocable .

"GIFTS" and not gift.

Israel is the recipient of these IRREVOCABLE "GIFTS" and calling.

...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE..
You're right Argueless,,,,
but, of course, you won't get an answer....
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
158
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Keep reading

Paul is making a point there. Keep reading till the next chapter where Paul concludes his argument.

Romans 3:9-28
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Destruction and misery are in their ways:
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

As you can see. Paul is building up to his point, which is clear later on in Romans!

This is similar to some people being HARDSTUCK in acts 2:38! KEEP READING!
Need to listen to yourself bro. KEEP READING....

...For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. DO WE, THEN, NULLIFY THE LAW BY THIS FAITH? Not at all! Rather, WE UPHOLD THE LAW...Romans 3:28-31

...Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and THE WHOLE WORLD HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO GOD. Romans 3:19
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? James 2:20
For the upteenth time, “faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit) and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works.

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims to have faith but lacks resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,388
7,573
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Maybe you can read the bible and find it yourself......but I won't hold my breath......I fully expect you to reject statements like...

It is the GIFT of God, not of works lest...

Those whom he CALLS he justifies

You stuff like that......
Amen! Romans 11:29 (AMPC) - For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]

Is not eternal life/salvation by the grace of God a gift that would be included in gifts? (Romans 5:15-18; 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) Absolutely.

Romans 11:29 also says God's call is irrevocable, which brings us to Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.*ALL of them. (y)
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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For the upteenth time, “faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit) and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works.

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims to have faith but lacks resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!
1. Faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead.

2. Faith without works is dead.



Could you explain the difference?
I'm pretty good at English and I don't see it.

Besides the fact that you're embellishing the text. It shouldn't take two paragraphs to explain this verse.

It plainly says:

FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

Plain and simple.
James 2:17
17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead ...
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Hmmmm......:unsure: I don’t think there is anything “human” in regards to the “spirit. The human part is the flesh and earthen clay.
Hey Laffy how is it going....I see what your saying, but want to give you something to ponder.....Jesus did say that which is born of spirit is spirit and that born of flesh is flesh.....but we cannot alleviate that man was made in God's image with a body, mind and soul/spirit.....

A question.....Jesus came in the flesh as the word made flesh...Was Jesus God in the flesh?

Father <-> Intellect
Son <-> Body
HS <-> Breath or Spirit

Does it take All three parts to make man man?