Not By Works

[Lafftur]

My view on the gates of hell not prevailing against the march of the kingdom is two fold ..

a. The power of evil will not stop it or defeat it

b. Death shall not overtake it and it will come to fruition as planned

Gates represent "authority or power to make decisions that others must submit to." Yeshua/Jesus took away all power and authority from the kingdom of darkness so..........the kingdom of darkness MUST NOW SUBMIT to the Kingdom of Light - which is the Kingdom of God/Heaven in the Earth.

What is sad, is many do not know their power and authority or they miss use it.

 

[dcontroversal]

dc, I have found myself often pondering your theory of the 144,000 being the slain male babies birth to 2 years old in Bethelehem.....

There has to be something for them.......that was a lot of blood shed........there has to be something......the martyrs that receive their white robe under the alter perhaps..........................I don't know..........there is something for them................I do believe so......just what, I do not know.......

I believe if all the facts about them are evaluated that I am spot on.....it makes complete sense with the verbiage used and every location they are mentioned is in heaven and it is an ANGEL THAT SEALS THEM not the Holy Spirit which would not have been given yet when they were killed...and the angel ASCENDS FROM THE EARTH to seal them.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Gates represent "authority or power to make decisions that others must submit to." Yeshua/Jesus took away all power and authority from the kingdom of darkness so..........the kingdom of darkness MUST NOW SUBMIT to the Kingdom of Light - which is the Kingdom of God/Heaven in the Earth.

What is sad, is many do not know their power and authority or they miss use it.

and or abuse it......my call is clear....proclaim the truth without remorse......to speak in front of people is my call......and I have for sure by the grace of God

 

[Woodsyliving]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I agree, there is no way we can justify our own self through any works we do, neither can we sanctify our own selves by any works of our self, neither can we enter into the Grace of God, all who enter it are justified by their faith placed in The Works of The Lord Jesus Christ, His works of the cross and His resurrection by God the Father.
Only He is our Savior we can never Save our selves.
I believe if we turn back from that Way already established it insults the Spirit of Grace and tramples The Lord Jesus Christ and His Works under foot, making His works obtainable by the works of man instead, the same man who never could Save his own self before The Lord's Coming and Going, His Works and God's, then would go back to that state outside that Grace and be found naked there without Grace or wearing his own grace that is blotched and blemished and unacceptable in that state.
We know we have Victory over the sting of death that the works of the law places on all who take it up, we have it in The Lord Jesus Christ and His Works not ours, none but Him could do that no man can do that or measure up to fulfilling that without any blotch or blemish found in them.
It is like going back to
1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
the bondage of sin and death that the law and its judgments place back upon man.

 

[Lafftur]

dc, I have found myself often pondering your theory of the 144,000 being the slain male babies birth to 2 years old in Bethelehem.....

There has to be something for them.......that was a lot of blood shed........there has to be something......the martyrs that receive their white robe under the alter perhaps..........................I don't know..........there is something for them................I do believe so......just what, I do not know.......

I believe if all the facts about them are evaluated that I am spot on.....it makes complete sense with the verbiage used and every location they are mentioned is in heaven and it is an ANGEL THAT SEALS THEM not the Holy Spirit which would not have been given yet when they were killed...and the angel ASCENDS FROM THE EARTH to seal them.....

Your theory is very intriguing......I know there is something to it........there is no way Yeshua/Jesus or the Father would have left them to die like that without some recompense.......reward.......justification.......they died for His Son.......they were children martyrs.......come on! Each one was special and honored before God in Heaven........just saying.....

 

[Argueless]

Here I can help you with this so that it is aligned with scripture.......

OBEDIENCE to the message of the Gospel...Completely done by His GRACE through FAITH... SPIRIT regenerated...The DEAD are made alive...New POWER by the infilling of the Holy Spirit.... Amen Thank you Jesus ...

...ALWAYS SAVED as promised by God, the one who is able to save to the uttermost, NEVER.. EVER to be forgotten or abandoned.

There Mr. Argueless now we truly HAVE GOOD NEWS View attachment 195517

ALWAYS SAVED...? Are you mocking God to whom everyone are held accountable for the things they have done.

... DO NOT BE DECEIVED: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Galatians 6:7-10

 

[dcontroversal]

Your theory if very intriguing......I know there is something to it........there is no way Yeshua/Jesus or the Father would have left them to die like that without some recompense.......reward.......justification.......they died for His Son.......they were children martyrs.......come on! Each one was special and honored before God in Heaven........just saying.....

Amen....the first martyrs killed in the place of Jesus....All males under 2.....in ALL THE COASTS therof......I believe it and remember the day it hit me like a lightbulb going on....the first thing that ever made sense to me

 

[Lafftur]

Amen....the first martyrs killed in the place of Jesus....All males under 2.....in ALL THE COASTS therof......I believe it and remember the day it hit me like a lightbulb going on....the first thing that ever made sense to me

To me, it's as if the Father in Heaven left His "calling card" in Bethlehem...........I'm killing my Son for you..... Can you feel My pain? Do you realize how much I must love you?

 

[Argueless]

In your opinion, how many times does the average Christian in a lifetime gets saved, loses salvation through sin, gets saved again, etc.?

5? 10? 20? 50? 100?

Or do you believe once salvation is lost, you can never be saved again?

Justification is God's work not man's. It is the FOUNDATION of our SALVATION by His Grace and it is through our FAITH that we receive this Grace and are JUSTIFIED.

Did you die the very moment that you receive this Grace and JUSTIFICATION and is presently in ETERNITY in God's presence where no flesh and blood, impure, unholy and corruptible things can enter?

Why do you RUN AHEAD without considering the BODY OF CHRIST of which He is the SAVIOR? (Ephesians 5:23)

Will you be saved without being SANCTIFIED, PURIFIED, RESURRECTED, JUDGED and GLORIFIED etc...?

It is clear that .. "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

We should STAND FIRM TO THE END (Matthew 24:13) and remain or ABIDE IN HIM to be saved.

...If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, THROWN INTO THE FIRE AND BURNED. John 15:6

...IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, IF THEY FALL AWAY, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God ALL OVER AGAIN and subjecting him to public disgrace. Hebrews 6:4-6

...IT IS GOD'S WILL THAT YOU SHOULD BE SANCTIFIED: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For GOD DID NOT CALL US TO BE IMPURE, but to LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—THEIR PLACE WILL BE IN THE FIERY LAKE OF BURNING SULFUR. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will ABANDON THE FAITH and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 1 Timothy 4:1

...LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are DISOBEDIENT. Therefore DO NOT BE PARTNERS WITH THEM. Ephesians 5:6-7

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Are you stupid.....how about read it again and get your facts straight Petey.....I said nothing of what you blather on about while bloviating in this post

Hi dcon,

So no problems spending a lifetimes amount of money on a survivalist scenario.
God provided for Elijah with ravens in the desert who supplied him with food.

God bless you, may His love and grace anoint you, Amen.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

just this once-
gb9 has read the Bible through multiple times, so, yes I have read 1st John multiple times. I just accept that it is a letter, and should be read as such, and not chopped into pieces with theology built around the pieces.

and I , like several others do not respond to you because we do not wish to participate in your musings about your emotional experiences and other's reaction to them when you share them.

you talk to and talk about yourself just fine without many us interacting with you.

Hi gb9,

I am not looking for interaction my friend or for you to respond.
I am sorry you feel you know the book of John but cannot follow how John asks us to walk like Jesus.

Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:6

I find it amusing when all believe claim to live in Him, therefore we should all walk as Jesus did.
It sounds at first impossible, because Jesus appears so other, yet the disciples saw and knew its
reality, so it is possible, it is we who have to change our thinking and faith to believe the words.

So let us rejoice in the King, and know the power of the Holy Spirit working powerfully within,
praise the Lord, Amen.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

YOU ARE UNBELIEVABLE IN YOUR UNBELIEF.
You admit you do not know what GOD MEANS BY PERFECTION.
YET YOU CLOSE YOUR MIND TO THOSE OF US THAT DO KNOW.
As far as I know, You have NEVER ANSWERED my PRIMARY QUESTION.
EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT YOU THINK BORN AGAIN MEANS ? ? ?
I am not going to pick on you, I honestly suspect you have never been BORN AGAIN.

Hi vco,

You claim to know what perfection is.
Is this the argument to be born again is to be perfect?

If this was so, the whole born again church would be a perfect example of Jesus and His life.
Let me put this simply, if my heart sings to my Lord and I walk in His ways, I know God and
are born of His Spirit.

If you are not aware of this spiritual reality in your heart or the scriptures that support it,
what are you?

If we lose sight of our goal, we lose everything. It is what Paul preached. Arriving a pure
blameless, Holy people, walking and praising Christ is our destination, is our heart and life.

It is not a work so much as becoming, it is not an aspiration like an exam, it is a transformation
of being through following our Lord. And those sheep who do not know Him, will never find
their way or know His voice. And I am powerless to resolve this, I am called only to His sheep,
and to share His word. Amen.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Nutcase theory

Young children and babies without the ability to consciously make moral choices are Gods
144,000 people drawn out of Israel,

Some how putting any notion to an allegorical image makes sense, like spending massive amounts
of money to survive the anti-Christ. Reminds me of the mother who stockpiled guns against the evil
outsiders, to then have her son kill her with the guns and then wipe out people in the local school.

The people of the Kingdom are focused on the Kingdom and its eternal nature, not maintaining oneself
for a few years in case things go south.

The Kingdom is about the light of life overcoming the darkness, that the power of the Holy Spirit is greater
than that which is in the world.

By submitting to the dreams of the world being crushed one declares where your heart really resides.
Repent and come to Christ, know He and His kingdom reign forever and in this is our heart secure.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
Rev 14:3-5

144,000 - not defiled with women, they are pure. All guys then. All mature enough to have sex but did not.
All able to be morally responsible, so over the age of 13 and possibly 25 if the age of starting being a priest is
taken into account.

This applies to the Levites: Men twenty-five years old or more shall come to take part in the work at the Tent of Meeting,
Number 8:24

This is just a superficial reading of a passage. Pretty obviously not 2 year old babies. And this is thought sensible????

 

[FollowHisSteps]

What is God saving?

Some think their spirits are saved but their flesh is destroyed.
Problem is we are our flesh, our souls and our spirits.
If you have a stroke, it becomes very clear we are very physical and related to our brains and how
they function.

Salvation is give to the whole of us, we are a new creation in Christ.
Our bodies will be transformed from the mortal to the immortal, but we are perfect, blameless,
pure and Holy, walking in the likeness of Jesus.

The split comes in our thinking because this language sounds so alien to our normal cynicism and
running ourselves down when we fail to meet our expectations. It is why we need to begin to see
how God sees us, and to be cleansed and purified by confessing our sins and walking in His ways.

This is our inheritence, our lifeblood, so if it is alien to you, maybe you need to come before the
Lord and let Him make it your own.

 

[Historyanswers]

Man the more you talk the more you prove you don't know what you are talking about...and the OT was translated into Greek from the 3rd to the 1st Century BC.....GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT PAL

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

when did a date ask you to search scripture, it points out ware you read the scripture.

read what is written to you please , since you have not pointed out anything that i have written to be incorrect , and can understand what is written to you, then i have to assume , you have a bee in your bonnet.

could you please tell the forum what age you were ,when you first got a bible
(then reread what i have posted.)

ware did you get the rite to insult people and since you think you were born around 30 ad , why are posting on here should you not be dead or in heaven.

straight down the middle pal.

 

[mailmandan]

This is for @Hevosmies too.

He is 100% correct.
Scripture teaches that we're to have
FAITH
HOPE
CHARITY (LOVE)

So, scripture teaches that we need at least Faith, Hope, and Love.
So, Faith alone is not biblical.

1 Corinthians 13:13
13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three;

This verse is often misinterpreted by works-salvationists who imply that Paul is teaching there are Christians who have faith, but no hope or love, so they won't be saved, yet that is NOT the point that Paul is making here. If someone has truly placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and has received the Holy Spirit, it would be impossible for them to have NO hope or love at all. Paul uses hyperbole (obvious and intentional exaggeration) about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love, but Paul is not exaggerating about the importance of love.

Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are still saved through faith, not faith plus love/acts of charity. Paul is stressing that love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary throughout eternity, love will still be the governing principle that controls everything that God and his redeemed people/saints are and do. We will not need faith and hope throughout eternity in our glorified bodies in the presence of the Lord.

Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love/acts of charity or without having "enough" hope. If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope. Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things HOPED for. Titus 3:7 - So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope.

So although Paul is stressing the importance of love, he is not teaching salvation through faith + love, as if we could produce "enough" acts of charity to merit eternal life. All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because believers have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7)

 

[FollowHisSteps]

no he never, you never had a bible till around 1500 ad, plus around an other 519 year, to write this post.
so you read the bible and then searched , on your own for proof of the old testament.

you had to a jewish rabbi or pharisee or scribe ,to read from these and be jewish , hence talking to a jewish nation, when speaking about the old testament , at the time of your quote.

70 ad is not in the bible , is attached to the history books, and points to the mean t by john the baptist ,saying repent by mouth, your sin to the jewish people, someware around 30 ad,with a gap of 40 year, yet to get the new testament to rome, though peter and paul is an other story, but no none christian jew, would want to see the new testament , they want to kill the apostles, and stop it in its track.

This is an interesting idea you are putting forward.
The truth is the whole bible was finished probably 100ad.

We have letters from the early church leaders, who write sermons explaining what the scriptures
mean and how to interpret them, to oppose various heresies which were being preached.

It is said there are so many documents with quotes from scripture from 100ad to 200ad you could
build the whole of the new testament from scratch if you had not other source.

And the reason why these sermons are historically significant because they refer to places and problems
that occurred specifically at certain times in history.
Put simply what you are suggesting is so wrong, you just need to listen to a lecture for a textual expert
to begin to get a clue as to our current understanding of where things are.

 

[Historyanswers]

Ok, jesus also explained the parables Himself, and he did not always speak in parables. Thats not even right

And pauls writings were called scripture by peter in his book, nt sure where you get you info but you were told wrong

the point was, your read it in the bible, and formed an opinion from reading the scripture.
if you never read the scripture,or have a bible, why would you read the old testament,

jesus and paul in the new testament, could read , from the original manuscripts, of the jewish people, and made quotes because they could read from the originals, when everyone else never because they were not allowed to at this point in history, and never had a bible, etc

no body had a full bible till the dates i pointed out,



(my quote)
no he never you never had a bible , till around 2000 ad, so with voice is out of the question, so you read it and opt out of the dates give in my quoted ,
jesus only spoke to the crowd in parables , the apostle filled in the gaps to what had been said to them.

 

[mailmandan]

Here I can help you with this so that it is aligned with scripture.......

OBEDIENCE to the message of the Gospel...Completely done by His GRACE through FAITH... SPIRIT regenerated...The DEAD are made alive...New POWER by the infilling of the Holy Spirit.... Amen Thank you Jesus ...

...ALWAYS SAVED as promised by God, the one who is able to save to the uttermost, NEVER.. EVER to be forgotten or abandoned.

There Mr. Argueless now we truly HAVE GOOD NEWS View attachment 195517

Amen sister! That truly is GOOD NEWS, but sadly, Mr Argueless is not interested GOOD NEWS, but is only interested in sowing seeds of doubt and deception in cynical fashion.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Corinthians 1:22 - who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.