Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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Yes. Why would physical death have any relevance to a person's state, whether saved or lost?


This is an example of God's divine discipline, which can be physical death.

1 Cor 11:30 - That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

1 or 5:5 - hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh (physical death by the hand of Satan), so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Acts 5 - Ananias and Saphhira

etc.
I think that is important to tell people because they misunderstand that "OSAS" means they are going to the promised land when in reality their bodies will be strewn in the wilderness.
 

ThewindBlows

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Sep 30, 2019
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I think that is important to tell people because they misunderstand that "OSAS" means they are going to the promised land when in reality their bodies will be strewn in the wilderness.
I think a lot of people see OSAS as someone that is a born again child of God cannot become unborn because they are sealed with that Holy spirit of promise,but it is a term a lot of people try and hide behind and bring in confusion on a simple matter, The reality is all our bodies return to the dirt, that's why you must be born again
 
Jan 31, 2021
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You don't understand the use of "rest" in Hebrews. It ISN'T about salvation. It's about eternal reward. Which is earned, just as the promised land HAD TO BE conquered before the Jews could REST in the promised land.

He was not so distraught in lack of faith he complained and complained at every turn. His rest was so sure in his faith in God he did many miracles..
Didn't you read the verses I shared that SAID that Moses 'broke faith' with the LORD, and shows UNBELIEF??

He made 1 mistake..and because of it, did not enter the land..
And.......wait for it.........that's my point.

You must not understand what it means to rest..
Well, I just explained it to you. Moses DIDN'T enter the land. REST was promised IN the land. The land that Moses DIDN'T enter.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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I think that is important to tell people because they misunderstand that "OSAS" means they are going to the promised land when in reality their bodies will be strewn in the wilderness.
Please unravel this confusion and I will gladly respond.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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From #1550-

Heb 3-
16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?
17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness?
18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

v.19 applies to Moses just as much as to the rest.

Numbers 14:29 - In this wilderness your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me.

Numbers 20:12 - But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them.”

Deut 32:51 - This is because both of you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites. Moses' and Aaron's indictment!

Moses didn't enter the land because of his "unbelief", just as Heb 3:19 says.
Ahh so moses rebelled.

ok.

Like I said, you have some odd beliefs my friend.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Be careful that it not fall off.

Oh, and while you are being careful as you shake your head, please explain how Paul could say they drank from the spiritual rock that was Christ, AND that he described them as "examples" to warn us.

How can unbelievers be any kind of example to believers. Apples and cauliflower.
How can they be examples to us, when they continually showed a lack of faith?

if you want to be like them. Feel free..

I have faith in God.. maybe not in every area. But I have faith in God..
 

Everlasting-Grace

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i'm going to hazard a guess that if anyone else is reading all your posts they too are confused. You are a very eloquent author of confusion. Maybe instead of short snippets just give us the 500 word paragraph of what salvation is and isn't.
Na, I do not think they are confused. I think they see what I am saying

just because a person does a work or two does not make them saved.

It takes true saving faith and trust in God to save you

many people work and have no faith in God.. like the people who wandered for 40 years

Like the jews, who crucified christ, because they felt they were good enough

And many people claim to have faith. yet are hearers and not doers..

both of them are lost. Because neither of them have repented.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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I think a lot of people see OSAS as someone that is a born again child of God cannot become unborn because they are sealed with that Holy spirit of promise,but it is a term a lot of people try and hide behind and bring in confusion on a simple matter, The reality is all our bodies return to the dirt, that's why you must be born again
To be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.

I do not think of Paul doubted that eternal life was eternal he could really make this statment, because paul could never know if he made it or not.
 

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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Please unravel this confusion and I will gladly respond.
I have told you repeatedly when you get these Free Mason Pastors like Kenneth Copeland described by Paul as false brothers secretly infiltrating the church, or the false ones described by Jude, that they always teach OSAS, they teach as long as you say some prayer initially you can live in sin and still you are saved.

Look at the confusion that EverlastingGrace is spouting.

The people who are teaching this doctrine are not emphasizing sanctification, they aren't emphasizing walking in obedience, they aren't emphasizing that you can suffer loss and that is not anything you would want to happen to you (a poor analogy is someone foolish enough to buy a house in the 9th ward before Katrina).

The reason for this confusion is they emphasize 2 verses from the NT to the exclusion of 7,000 verses so that we get this gobbledegook from EverlastingGrace who I suspect is a better Bible student than half, maybe even that 80% of those who are fed this stuff.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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You don't understand the use of "rest" in Hebrews. It ISN'T about salvation. It's about eternal reward. Which is earned, just as the promised land HAD TO BE conquered before the Jews could REST in the promised land.
No sir it is not

it is rest at working from the law and trying to save yourself.

Didn't you read the verses I shared that SAID that Moses 'broke faith' with the LORD, and shows UNBELIEF??


And.......wait for it.........that's my point.


Well, I just explained it to you. Moses DIDN'T enter the land. REST was promised IN the land. The land that Moses DIDN'T enter.
The people who left CONTINUALLY showed they did not believe..

You can not compair them and moses.. they are not even close to being the same

Abraham sinned,

David commited murder and adultry

Did they lose salvation?
 

Everlasting-Grace

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There @ZNP goes with his zzz again
that just shows you can not answer my questions. Keep on doing that. Because all you do is prove I am right.

When you stand in front of God with all your works. I pray you do not give him zz’s when he asks you how good is good enough..
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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I also love how @ZNP believes that people who continually showed lack of faith, continually complained, admitted they never wanted to leave Egypt. And proved they did not trust God because they would not follow him to the promise land due to lack of faith that they ALWAYS HAD

were saved.

Talk about easy believism and licentious behavior making you born again and a child of God..
 

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
 

ThewindBlows

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Sep 30, 2019
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To be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.

I do not think of Paul doubted that eternal life was eternal he could really make this statment, because paul could never know if he made it or not.
I'm not quite getting what you are trying to say, or concepts are being mixed, My point was our bodies die of course our soul doesnt, And Jesus is eternal life you have him you have life, Paul was born again and had the Holy Spirit, Paul knew where he was going
 
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Ahh so moses rebelled.

ok.

Like I said, you have some odd beliefs my friend.
So, which of the verses I quoted do you find odd? When Moses hit the rock when told to speak to the rock, yes, he rebelled. And really paid for it. He was not permitted to enter the land. No small potatoes.

Deut 3:26 - But Jehovah was wroth with me for your sakes, and hearkened not unto me; and Jehovah said unto me, Let it suffice thee; speak no more unto me of this matter.

Do you understand this verse? Here is the context for v.26.

23 At that time I pleaded with the LORD:
24 “Sovereign LORD, you have begun to show to your servant your greatness and your strong hand. For what god is there in heaven or on earth who can do the deeds and mighty works you do?
25 Let me go over and see the good land beyond the Jordan—that fine hill country and Lebanon.”

Moses had been BEGGING the Lord to let him enter the land. v.23

And the Lord told him to SHUT UP and SAY NO MORE about it.
 
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How can they be examples to us, when they continually showed a lack of faith?
Again, you are trying to compare apples with cauliflower. Doesn't work. Unbelievers can't be examples for believers.

if you want to be like them. Feel free..
Why in the world would you say this? These people were believers and complainers. That's why they were examples to warn us.

Believers who complain and don't trust God to take care of them will end up as they did; "scattered over the desert".

I have faith in God.. maybe not in every area. But I have faith in God..
You just touched on the issue. "not in every area". That describes them. They had trusted in the Messiah, per 1 Cor 10:1-5, but they just didn't trust Him enough and complained about their circumstances.

Do you understand the difference between saving faith and lifestyle faith?
 
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I have told you repeatedly when you get these Free Mason Pastors like Kenneth Copeland described by Paul as false brothers secretly infiltrating the church, or the false ones described by Jude, that they always teach OSAS, they teach as long as you say some prayer initially you can live in sin and still you are saved.
Just because some slimeballs teach OSAS doesn't make the doctrine false. The whole point of false teachers is how they include false with the truth. That's how people get hooked and deceived by them.

[QOTE]The people who are teaching this doctrine are not emphasizing sanctification, they aren't emphasizing walking in obedience, they aren't emphasizing that you can suffer loss and that is not anything you would want to happen to you (a poor analogy is someone foolish enough to buy a house in the 9th ward before Katrina).[/QUOTE]
Right. That's what sets these slimeballs apart from truth teachers. But I think you are conflating salvation and spiritual growth.

Both are necessary for understanding and I emphasize both. But there is a clear diffeence between them. Salvation is by grace, apart from works, and spiritual growth is by works.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
You don't understand the use of "rest" in Hebrews. It ISN'T about salvation. It's about eternal reward. Which is earned, just as the promised land HAD TO BE conquered before the Jews could REST in the promised land.
No sir it is not it is rest at working from the law and trying to save yourself.
Explain how the Israelites were to get into the promised land. By resting or conquest.

The people who left CONTINUALLY showed they did not believe..
They did not have lifestyle faith.

You can not compair them and moses.. they are not even close to being the same
Do you not believe that Heb 3:19 didn't apply to Moses?

"So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief."

Are you saying that this verse didn't apply to Moses?

Abraham sinned,

David commited murder and adultry

Did they lose salvation?
Nope. Neither did the idiots in the desert. They just suffered the consequences for failing to trust God in their circumstances.

Since you don't understand this, can you explain this:

1 Cor 11:30 - That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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May I ask a question?

Why are some here aggressive toward other Christians when debating the Bible?

Not just you but those like you in this thread.

Why condescend,Levy sarcasm, insulting innuendo, and so forth on order to attempt to insist your understanding of any given passage is superior to those pasted with that condescension, sarcasm,insult, intended to nullify their perspective.

Seriously. How do we talk Bible among one another while violating Jesus basic tenets of showing love and respect and kindness to one another?

''Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.''
Love and respect and kindness were shown until it was time to stop showing.

Now direct communication is needed.

Nothing I said was was untrue. Nor was it neccessarily unloving. It was direct and true.