One Talent

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Sep 3, 2016
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#41
If that were even remotely true then most of us are hell bound including yourself.
The criterion is faithfulness and not other things. The purpose of the “talent” was not preservation, but rather, multiplication; his action proclaims not only indolence, but as well, insolence; untold numbers, who claim to be Christians, fall into this category.

JSM
 
I

ieuan

Guest
#42
Wow this is getting personal, this is not what I intended, there is a lot of genuine interest and honest
feedback here. Please refrain from accusing each other, and please refrain from questioning another
Christian's motive. Where is the love of Christ, if you love Christ you will love other Christians even
if you disagree on their standpoint.

Some of the replies are sidestepping the conversation, some don't quite understand the question
some interpret it differently, yet I find the some replies rewarding and I am learning here too.

I deplore that some are accusing other Christians, and I don't want to drag up old arguments and tensions,
I prefer to start each day afresh.

Let's begin by defining a parable:

1, can we agree that a parable is a story told by our Lord with a hidden spiritual
meaning. So that people of the world, not true believers, will not understand.
Is that a reasonable definition.

2. then moving on we can say the spiritual meaning is not about being given money
but it is a story that we can take as being applied to us, true believers. So to interpret
the parable, we find it's not about money but gifts given by God. Someone said they
are not gifts but loans, okay I wold allow that, but a gift of grace that enables that
man to do something for the Lord, i.e. witness, praise God, teach, interpret and so on.
So grace is given to the believer, so why then is the gift taken away by the Lord?

So if we can address those points in a few lines it would help the discussion, yes?
 
I

ieuan

Guest
#43
what kind of fear?

Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed,
so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground.
is this accurate? is God's character violent and harsh? does God reap where God has not sown? does God gather where He has not scattered seed?
is this the fear of God where wisdom begins or is this calling Him a thief, an unreasonable terror, and evil?
Jesus says he is wicked and slothful.
Remember this man has a false impression of God. This is his account of how he views God
it is not necessary a true account, in fact I would say it is a twisted account of God.
Thanks for your input, it is a little of topic, but okay.
Thanks
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#44
The man who was given one talent dug and buried it
because he said he feared the Lord
The one talent was taken from him
and represented faith,
why was faith taken from him
and he left worse of before he had been given it.
If he was left with no faith then hell is his destination at death.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

This appears to be an increase for the Lord which would be laboring for the kingdom of God to bring people to the truth, for it is Jesus that received the increase, or to increase our selves in being better at laboring for the kingdom.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Some people hold unto sin and think they are alright with God, and it does not affect their salvation, which Jesus will say they did not do the will of the Father, and were workers of iniquity, and do not labor for God like they should, but having a sinful lifestyle in the presence of the world shows that they are not laboring for the kingdom of God like they should for many say hypocrite and do not want do accept Christianity.

People who believe OSAS are people that do not want to get rid of sin but enjoy it and say their sin does not affect their salvation, and they know they sin and enjoy it and since they believe they cannot fall away then sin must not affect their salvation.

And all the Church will be saved for the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Church, and the hypocrites do not belong to the spiritual Church for Jesus said they will have their portion with the hypocrites.

There might be more hypocrites now than in the past but the Church is the same, and they do not affect it in a negative way, and the hypocrites do not tarnish the spiritual Church.

The Church can never fall away for only people with the Spirit acting like Christ can belong to the Church.

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Some people believe that this falling away is the Church but it is not true, but it is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel which the nations governments came together to try to establish peace on earth and religion is evolution and they can still evolve, and hindered anything taught contrary to that which is the time the world will not endure the truth of the Bible but want to hear it according to their own lusts which is no personal God and they can evolve to be greater and spiritual(1 Timothy 4:1-5;2 Timothy 4:2-4), which when the nations come together three and one half years later will be the falling away first when the transgressors are come to the full which will allow the man of sin to rule over them.

For God will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#45
The criterion is faithfulness and not other things. The purpose of the “talent” was not preservation, but rather, multiplication; his action proclaims not only indolence, but as well, insolence; untold numbers, who claim to be Christians, fall into this category.

JSM
“30 He who is not with Me is against Me (it is impossible to take a neutral position regarding Christ; the word “against” denotes intense opposition); and he who gathers not with Me scatters abroad (refers to the Truth that one cannot be with “Christ” and “against” His true servants; the presence of Immanuel tests everything and everybody).” Matthew 12:30

“23 He who is not with Me is against Me (presents the fact that there is no neutrality with Christ): and he who gathers not with Me scatters (everything is either of the Devil or of Christ; there is no middle ground).” Luke 11:23

JSM

I repeat: This is why Jesus said in Matthew 7:14, that most people will go to hell. Only a remnant of the Church will be saved.
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
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#46
if this is a wicked, slothful man who accuses God of taking what does not belong to Him -- has this man any faith at all, ever?
what does Jesus say about him?


But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
that he 'has not' do the monies = faith? then this man never had any. do the monies ≠ faith? then likewise this man was faithless.
i don't think the text supports equating the talents with measures of faith, @ieuan. i agree with what @DB7 said, that as the monies were given according to ability, this ability indicates measures of faith.
can you prove to me otherwise; prove to me that the scripture shows monies = faith ?
It aligns very well in you mathmatical equation. Thank you for cross examination.

If the man had no faith and what little faith he had will be taken from him would render him FAITHLESS. And without faith man cannot receive grace. Therefore the eternal hell fire seems like the likely outcome.

Welldone posthuman for you further speculation into this revelation the brother StainedbytheSpirit shared.
 

TLC209

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
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#47
Quote from TLC209 "Your doctrine or belief must be wrong. Based on your reply I see your error."

I don't intend to get into argumants and futile debate, it does no good.

My question remains and those who wish to pursue this line of discussion will do so amicably, hopefully.

Thanks TLC209 for your blessing
Appreciate the openness you are exibiting. Id like to respond to your statement. I can see you believe that one is saved by mere belief. And the bible teaches us, what good is faith without works? Faith without works is dead.

In the same way one who believes in Jesus will obey Him. It is on the belief of Jesus Christ being God in the flesh, the Son of God, the Living Word made flesh, if we truly believe we will follow Christ and obey His teachings. Because His teachings came from the Father. So believing alone will not save anyone but rather belief done with obedience and servitude. Obedience stems from love. Look what scripture says.

Acts 5:29 But Peter and the apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than any human authority. 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross.31 Then God put him in the place of honor at his right hand as Prince and Savior. He did this so the people of Israel would repent of their sins and be forgiven. 32 We are witnesses of these things and so is the Holy Spirit, who is given by God to those who obey him."

John 14:23-29 Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me. And remember, my words are not my own. What I am telling you is from the Father who sent me. I am telling you these things now while I am still with you. But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.
“I am leaving you with a gift—peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give. So don’t be troubled or afraid. Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am. I have told you these things before they happen so that when they do happen, you will believe.

So obeying is attributed to believing. One cannot only believe and not be a doer of the Word. One cannot only believe and be disobedient or manipulate scripture to meet our personal agenda. Twisting the Word will not help anyone, because the Word cannot be altered or changed. God is firm in His Word.

Didnt mean to offend you by telling you that I see error in one of your posts. It is all for Gods glory. We must walk in truth and strengthen one another and encourage growth within the body in Truth and with Love always done through Jesus Christ. So my appology to you. Was not my intention. Hope we can be a blessing to one another as God intended for us to grow with one another. Iron sharpens Iron.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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#48
ok Stained, i share Dino246's sentiment, be extremely cautious, for again, if you are wrong about your source of inspiration, the repercussions are not trivial i.e, claiming something came from God when it came from elsewhere is extremely egregious, as there are only 2 sources of inspiration.
Please excuse the unmitigating nature and harshness of my speech, but please appreciate why I take this serious.
Thanks!
There is no reason to believe that if a person claims to have received a gift of knowledge from God that their testimony didn't come from anywhere other than from the LORD. Does that mean that their testimony is unquestionably the truth, that is a question which those of faith should 'walk in wisdom toward the believer...' as written in Colossians 4:5. The account of Medad and Eldad in the book of Numbers is a good talking point regarding expressing one's beliefs.

I will in a week answer the question fully from my understanding of scripture
Reminds me of Parables 3:5, which some might recognize as Proverbs 3:5

2. then moving on we can say the spiritual meaning is not about being given money
but it is a story that we can take as being applied to us, true believers.
Of course the pithy of John 16:25 reflects that while the Gospel is freely given, it is not free or at least not if one believes it to be the truth considering the verse previously cite in the 23th chapter of Proverbs. While wisdom is a defence, money is also a defense and the excellency of wisdom is that it gives life to them that have it. Thus it is written, take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

So to interpret the parable, we find it's not about money but gifts given by God.
Do we interpret the parables or do the precepts define the principles in the doctrine of Christ?
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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#49
I can see you believe that one is saved by mere belief.
You say that like hope is a bad thing....Hope is the belief, or expectation of what one believes is true thus it is written you are saved by hope.

And the bible teaches us, what good is faith without works? Faith without works is dead.
If the Bible teaches you that faith without works is dead, then what good is faith that doesn't come by hearing the voice of the Son of God?
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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#50
And without faith man cannot receive grace. Therefore the eternal hell fire seems like the likely outcome.
Is that faith the faith that comes by hearing or the faith that comes by believing?
 
I

ieuan

Guest
#51
Lots of replies, some every long, and some side issues
in the end we will have discussed the whole of the Bible, not a bad thing.
I see we can argue about evry sentence then get on to those old horses OSAS
and Law vs Grace and Work vs Faith.

My question originally intended to winckle out why the third man was cast out entirely and worse of from when he started.

Why would God give a man grace and then remove it.

Some one seems to think I am teaching faith alone saves, yes I am, but there would be a change
in a man and He will have some gifts and he will do works. That goes without saying. Saved means
thee has to be a change of heart and we look to Ezekiel to explain how that change of heart is
achieved. And remember those who think you can lead a perfect sin free life, even not loving
your brother perfectly and as you love yourself then you are condemned as a sinner and unless
you repent and change hell awaits. So can we be perfect. Will one sin condemn us to Death at death
should we forget to confess? I think if Christ died for us nothing can separate us from the love of God
only unbelief.

But back to the question, and some of you have answered it aleady.
Why are some left worse of than when they started.

Dear brothers, please keep your posts short and to the point, thank you.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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#52
A complimentary passage is that of the Sower and the Seed and the same question remains.
That is correct.
And we see from the parable of the sower that the talent entrusted to a person is the knowledge of the kingdom (IOW, the word of God).

From the parable of the talents, Matthew 25:29...

"For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him"

From the parable of the sower, Matthew 13:11-12...

"The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."


So we see that the talent given and the seed sown is the word of God. People who don't act on the knowledge of God they have received in this life will be condemned to the place of torment, while those who do act on it will enter into the kingdom and share the Master's happiness.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#53
Remember this man has a false impression of God. This is his account of how he views God
it is not necessary a true account, in fact I would say it is a twisted account of God.
Thanks for your input, it is a little of topic, but okay.
Thanks
yes, that his view of the Master is wrong is what i wanted to point out.
Christ calls him "
wicked" -- sort of an indication to be highly suspicious of anything he says.
i am glad that you see that, but disheartened that you don't yet recognize the relevance.


that what he says is not true isn't off-topic at all: it raises a very pertinent question which touches on the assumptions you make in the OP: do the wicked 'have faith' at all? does anything in this parable indicate that the wicked enemy of God has faith? or does it all indicate he is faithless, throughout?
 
Nov 16, 2019
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#54
You bring increase to the word of God (the talent given, the seed sown) by doing it. Simply knowing the truth is not good enough. Hiding it in unbelief won't save you on the day of Judgment. Putting the word of God to work through faith will.
 

DB7

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2014
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#55
There is no reason to believe that if a person claims to have received a gift of knowledge from God that their testimony didn't come from anywhere other than from the LORD. Does that mean that their testimony is unquestionably the truth, that is a question which those of faith should 'walk in wisdom toward the believer...' as written in Colossians 4:5. The account of Medad and Eldad in the book of Numbers is a good talking point regarding expressing one's beliefs.
UnoiAmarah, don't be so flaky, it is extremely egregious to say something came from the Lord, when it came from elsewhere. It's called blasphemy! There are countless reasons to believe that something did not come from the Lord, more than to believe that they did. Are there not enough charlatans out there, that you tell people to let their guard down in scrutinizing the source of one's alleged inspiration? Col 4:5 is talking about preaching to the unsaved with prudence & wisdom, not about rebuking one for an overt offense.
Smarten up, there are a myriad of ways to know the difference of where a message comes from, it must be wise, inline with scripture, edifying, and glorify God! I demonstrated that Stained's interpretation lacked precision, and thus was too vague that it did not extrapolate the exclusive meaning of the text. Read horoscopes and see how vague they are, or Benny Hinn's revelations and messages from God, same principle.
Do not tell Christians to be credulous an unwise!

1 John 4:1
4:1. Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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#56
But back to the question, and some of you have answered it aleady.
Why are some left worse of than when they started.
2 Peter 2:1
"It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them."

Rejecting the knowledge of the kingdom has eternal consequences. It will be harder on that Day for those who knew the will of God and did not act than for those who did not know, or who did not know as much, and also did not act.

Luke 12:47-48
“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."

You are only responsible for what you have received, nothing more, nothing less. But you are responsible nonetheless. The expectation for increase is based on how much knowledge you received in the first place. Whatever the amount of knowledge is that we receive, we are to respond through the power of faith. Those who do that will be saved. Those who don't do that will be lost.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#57
Why would God give a man grace and then remove it.
  • how do i justify calling what was given to him 'grace' ?
  • Christ declares of this, 'the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away'
    • what does Christ mean by saying he has 'nothing' ?
      • if it is faith, isn't the Lord saying he had none?
      • if it is grace, isn't Christ saying he had none?
  • why does God give anything to someone and then remove it?
    • big question. to understand, we need to understand Job, Jonah, Matthew 21:43, Genesis 2-4, Genesis 11, Isaiah 1, 1 Samuel 15 / 1 Kings 11 & Numbers 12 just for starters. we need to understand why Christ ascended after He descended, why the tabernacle had a veil, and why the glory departed from the temple, among many other things, such as why there was a gap between Malachi & John, and what Peter means saying His patience is meant to produce repentance. where do you want to begin?
 
Nov 16, 2019
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#58
...it raises a very pertinent question which touches on the assumptions you make in the OP: do the wicked 'have faith' at all? does anything in this parable indicate that the wicked enemy of God has faith? or does it all indicate he is faithless, throughout?
Faith comes through the hearing of the word of God. This faith is given through the word of God so they can then believe in and place their trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sin and live a righteous life.

But most people reject the faith God gives through his word, in effect calling the Holy Spirit a liar (1 John 5:10-11). They are condemned because they know the word they heard is true (because faith accompanied that word showing it to be true) but they do not then place their trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sin and so are lost.

Faith is simply knowing something that you can not see is true (Hebrews 11:1). Lot's of people know the gospel is true, because the Holy Spirit shows them that it's true. But they are not saved because they do not then take what they now know to be true and act on it by placing their trust in Christ's atonement and living a righteous life...but they take false comfort in knowing the truth, thinking that alone will save them.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#59
The one talent was taken from him
and represented faith,
Why do you make that assumption? The talent represents actual wealth, or opportunities for service available to God's servants.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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#60
Why do you make that assumption? The talent represents actual wealth, or opportunities for service available to God's servants.
Does a person go "outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"* for not using his wealth in the service of God?

*Matthew 25:30