Predestination

[eternally-gratefull]

nobody LED YOU TO FAITH.

it was given to you as a GIFT.
you preach this everyday.
make up your mind.

Who is commissioned to come into the world and convict men of their sin?
and to convince them of the Truth of Jesus Christ?

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1670. helkó

to drag​

Original Word: ἑλκύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: helkó
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
Short Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade
Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.

ok. so what I am hearing you say is (If I am wrong forgive me) all those who will end up in hell had no choice. they are going there because whatever reason. God did not chose them

Sorry I can not buy this.

If I am in danger, And someone says sit still let me save you otherwise you WILL die. I have a choice. I sit still and let them do the work because I trust them. Or I say thanks but no thanks, I will save myself (and end up killing myself in the process)

Faith is a trust is someone else. it is not your work, because you are doing nothing but trusting someone else to do the work for you.

It is the work of God you believe in the one he sent. Christ did all the work. Do you trust him or not?

That is why it is called a gift. I did not earn it. Nor could I do it myself. I have to trust Christ.

The gift is not just for me. it is for all men throughout all history. It was offered to them. But they chose to say thanks but no thanks.

God came to me because he KNEW I would recieve him. But he goes to them too. That is what romans 1 is all about. No one has an excuse.

If I was not given grace, I would have an excuse. And a perfect judge could not condemn me. because I was never given an opportunity to believe in the thing which would save me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ok. so what I am hearing you say is (If I am wrong forgive me) all those who will end up in hell had no choice. they are going there because whatever reason. God did not chose them

Sorry I can not buy this.

If I am in danger, And someone says sit still let me save you otherwise you WILL die. I have a choice. I sit still and let them do the work because I trust them. Or I say thanks but no thanks, I will save myself (and end up killing myself in the process)

Faith is a trust is someone else. it is not your work, because you are doing nothing but trusting someone else to do the work for you.

It is the work of God you believe in the one he sent. Christ did all the work. Do you trust him or not?

That is why it is called a gift. I did not earn it. Nor could I do it myself. I have to trust Christ.

The gift is not just for me. it is for all men throughout all history. It was offered to them. But they chose to say thanks but no thanks.

God came to me because he KNEW I would recieve him. But he goes to them too. That is what romans 1 is all about. No one has an excuse.

If I was not given grace, I would have an excuse. And a perfect judge could not condemn me. because I was never given an opportunity to believe in the thing which would save me.

I forgot to add to this the second senerio of the persn who needs rescued. The first does it because he tries to save himself. the second does not think he needs saved and is ok. Thus rejecting the help. and will die because he does not realize the seriousness of his situation.

 

[zone]

ok. so what I am hearing you say is (If I am wrong forgive me) all those who will end up in hell had no choice. they are going there because whatever reason. God did not chose them

Sorry I can not buy this.

If I am in danger, And someone says sit still let me save you otherwise you WILL die. I have a choice. I sit still and let them do the work because I trust them. Or I say thanks but no thanks, I will save myself (and end up killing myself in the process)

Faith is a trust is someone else. it is not your work, because you are doing nothing but trusting someone else to do the work for you.

It is the work of God you believe in the one he sent. Christ did all the work. Do you trust him or not?

That is why it is called a gift. I did not earn it. Nor could I do it myself. I have to trust Christ.

The gift is not just for me. it is for all men throughout all history. It was offered to them. But they chose to say thanks but no thanks.

God came to me because he KNEW I would recieve him. But he goes to them too. That is what romans 1 is all about. No one has an excuse.

If I was not given grace, I would have an excuse. And a perfect judge could not condemn me. because I was never given an opportunity to believe in the thing which would save me.

you haven't heard me say anything of the sort.

i asked you if you were called out (by the Holy Spirit) and dragged to Calvary and received faith, a gift (By Grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God).

you said you were not dragged because you think it means FORCED.

i showed you what it says in the greek.

address the passages i posted only please.

1670 helkýō – properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.
draw.

Or helko hel'-ko; probably akin to haireomai; to drag (literally or figuratively) -- draw. Compare helisso.

focusing on the attraction-power: this is what men have tried to express as irresistable grace. do what you want with it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you haven't heard me say anything of the sort.

i asked you if you were called out (by the Holy Spirit) and dragged to Calvary and received faith, a gift (By Grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God).

you said you were not dragged because you think it means FORCED.

i showed you what it says in the greek.

address the passages i posted only please.

1670 helkýō – properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.
draw.

Or helko hel'-ko; probably akin to haireomai; to drag (literally or figuratively) -- draw. Compare helisso.

focusing on the attraction-power: this is what men have tried to express as irresistable grace. do what you want with it.

Like I said I can't do that till I get home. I have no access to greek. and do not trust web sights, they are usually biased. I have like 12 greek english things at home I can look up.

 

[Strangelove]

you haven't heard me say anything of the sort.

i asked you if you were called out (by the Holy Spirit) and dragged to Calvary and received faith, a gift (By Grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God).

you said you were not dragged because you think it means FORCED.

i showed you what it says in the greek.

address the passages i posted only please.

1670 helkýō – properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.
draw.

Or helko hel'-ko; probably akin to haireomai; to drag (literally or figuratively) -- draw. Compare helisso.

focusing on the attraction-power: this is what men have tried to express as irresistable grace. do what you want with it.

I love the idea of irresistable Grace. It sounds like real love.

I dunno why so many people have a problem with it and make it out to be God FORCED this or that.

All Glory to God.

(even our free will is directed by Him......obviously...He's GOD)

 

[zone]

Like I said I can't do that till I get home. I have no access to greek. and do not trust web sights, they are usually biased. I have like 12 greek english things at home I can look up.

ok.
my greek scholar friend is pretty clear on it.
please post what you find.

 

[zone]

I love the idea of irresistable Grace. It sounds like real love.

I dunno why so many people have a problem with it and make it out to be God FORCED this or that.

All Glory to God.

(even our free will is directed by Him......obviously...He's GOD)

mornin' Doc
agree.

i know i didn't choose.
i was dead.

 

[Strangelove]

mornin' Doc
agree.

i know i didn't choose.
i was dead.

I definately didnt choose...I wasnt interested in God in the slightest when I got to the Gospels...I was on a completely different line of research.

 

[zone]

I definately didnt choose...I wasnt interested in God in the slightest when I got to the Gospels...I was on a completely different line of research.

and then what happened?
tell me again Doc.

 

[Strangelove]

and then what happened?
tell me again Doc.

FAZAAAAM!!!!!

I suddenly believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and started changing in ways I could never previously imagine.

It....just.....happened.

 

[zone]

FAZAAAAM!!!!!

I suddenly believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and started changing in ways I could never previously imagine.

It....just.....happened.

oh i love that story!

 

[Abiding]

Abiding smiles

 

[shroom2]

nobody LED YOU TO FAITH.

it was given to you as a GIFT.
you preach this everyday.
make up your mind.

Who is commissioned to come into the world and convict men of their sin?
and to convince them of the Truth of Jesus Christ?

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1670. helkó

to drag​

Original Word: ἑλκύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: helkó
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
Short Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade
Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.

God is drawing ALL men. He wants ALL men to be saved. But not all will listen. People have the free will to accept or reject God. People can choose to seek God, or not. Those who seek will find.

 

[zone]

God is drawing ALL men. He wants ALL men to be saved. But not all will listen. People have the free will to accept or reject God. People can choose to seek God, or not. Those who seek will find.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Romans 3:11
there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.

Romans 3:11
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

 

[shroom2]

Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Romans 3:11
there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.

Romans 3:11
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

Quoted from the OT law. Here's the whole passage:
10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15) Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16) Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17) And the way of peace have they not known:
18) There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Don't forget these:
21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

 

[Israel]

We are all predestined for heaven.

 

[zone]

Quoted from the OT law. Here's the whole passage:
10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15) Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16) Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17) And the way of peace have they not known:
18) There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Don't forget these:
21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

yes dear.
so now we come back to this:

Romans 9:16
It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

did you regenerate yourself?
make a decision for Jesus?
did you do anything at all connected with your salvation?

Paul says no:
And this is not your own doing;

 

[Strangelove]

God is drawing ALL men. He wants ALL men to be saved. But not all will listen. People have the free will to accept or reject God. People can choose to seek God, or not. Those who seek will find.

Those who choose to seek God.....God CHOSE THEM FIRST.

 

[Strangelove]

We are all predestined for heaven.

whos going to hell? anyone?

 

[shroom2]

yes dear.
so now we come back to this:

Romans 9:16
It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

did you regenerate yourself?
make a decision for Jesus?
did you do anything at all connected with your salvation?

Paul says no:
And this is not your own doing;

Making Jesus Lord, and believing, is required.

Romans 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and [if thou] shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

God made the gift of salvation available to anyone who will believe. He wants all men to be saved. He also gave man 100% free will. Some will choose to believe, some won't. God won't force anyone to be saved.