Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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But wait! What about Galatians 2:16-19 and Gal 2:21.......:oops:
Who's talking about being justified by works? Certainly not me. We're justified by grace through faith. So, does Paul contradict himself when he says "not the hearers of the law, but the "doers of the law shall be justified in His sight"? No.

Since obedience to the law is the present outward evidence of a previous inward conversion (1 John 2:3-4 KJV), when God sees us doing the law, He knows we've been previously justified by Christ and therefore stand as such in His sight - justified by Christ. Why is this evidence at all? Because the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to:

"Because the carnal mind is enmity with God. For it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Romans 8:7 KJV).​

Conversely, what is deliberate, habitual, known disobedience the outward evidence of? For the honest Bible scholar, it means "a lost inward condition" -- but for everyone else, it's means a OSAS License to Sin in the wallet.
 
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Indeed, Scripture consistently says that Jesus comes "as a thief" for us in the rapture. BUT NOT IN THE NIGHT! Why? Because Christians are not in darkness and do not see the awful "night" of the tribulation as is confirmed to us by Jesus Himself in Revelation 3:10.
Did not the "midnight cry" of the groom alert the sleeping virgins? BTW, when Paul says we aren't in "darkness", it's talking about "spiritual darkness", not literal darkness - or else we have to teach Christians never bump their big toe or step on a lego while stumbling to the bathroom in the darkness. ;)
It is ONLY AND ALWAYS the tribulation that comes "as a thief in the night".
"Behold, I come as a thief" says Jesus in Revelation 15. When Jesus comes as a thief in the night, Peter says the Earth is going to look almost as bad as Chicago after Beetleguese Lightfoot gets done with it.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Hmm
You don't understand the concept of faith
Yes save by faith but faith change life style into what Jesus say in


Matt 25

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Are you sure?...

But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.
(Rom 4:5)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Who's talking about being justified by works? Certainly not me. We're justified by grace through faith. So, does Paul contradict himself when he says "not the hearers of the law, but the "doers of the law shall be justified in His sight"? No.

Since obedience to the law is the present outward evidence of a previous inward conversion (1 John 2:3-4 KJV), when God sees us doing the law, He knows we've been previously justified by Christ and therefore stand as such in His sight - justified by Christ. Why is this evidence at all? Because the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to:

"Because the carnal mind is enmity with God. For it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Romans 8:7 KJV).​

Conversely, what is deliberate, habitual, known disobedience the outward evidence of? For the honest Bible scholar, it means "a lost inward condition" -- but for everyone else, it's means a OSAS License to Sin in the wallet.
Well....by your standard the repentant thief on the cross is both the most advantaged yet most decrepit of all Christians. He demonstrated ZERO works and ZERO growth and fruitfulness. And at the same time paradoxically ZERO failings to resist temptations post-salvation.

So what do we have here? A dead heat?
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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But many never grow up. They never learn the doctrines about being IN fellowship, how to obey the command to be filled with the Spirit, etc.
1 john 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

To be save must have faith, mean love God you can't say have faith but hate Jesus
If you say you have faith but hate other you are liar, you don't have faith and not save

It is about salvation not only reward like you church say, it is salvation
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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Are you sure?...

But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.
(Rom 4:5)
Read again Matt 25;34-36
I know those verse not teach salvation by work, but if you have faith that is what happen like what Jesus say in Matt 25
If you accept Jesus than die the next second, yes you save, because Jesus allready in you, Jesus in you cause you to have love, but you don't have time to show the love
Salvation by faith not work, but you have time. Your faith will bear fruit of love
 
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So, that's what you call "erroneous platitudes" huh. Magenta was quoting verses (Eph 2:8,9). Did you not realize that?
It IS an erroneous platitude to suggest that since Christ is our rest, we can now break the Sabbath - as ludicrous as claiming since Jesus is our truth, we can now lie.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
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Matt 25 :34 - 41 is not about reward
Read 100 time
On those verses Jesus tell how He decide people go to heaven or eternal fire/ hell
Not still go to heaven but less diamond in their crown

Jesus say
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Eternal punishment is hell don't say heaven with less diamond in your crown

It say not helping poor go to eternal punishment or hell
 
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Why do you insist on remaining the son of the bondwoman per Galatians 4:25? We are the children of promise per Galatians 4:28.
Why do you think we can go to heaven without having "agape" in our hearts?

An "agape-filled heart" is demonstrated - and only demonstrated - by happily keeping God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) so if people find keeping God's commandments "grievous", that should be an indication to reexamine their relationship with God.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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It IS an erroneous platitude to suggest that since Christ is our rest, we can now break the Sabbath - as ludicrous as claiming since Jesus is our truth, we can now lie.
The early Church met on the first day of the week. Were they all doomed reprobate sinners because of this supposed error?
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Why do you think we can go to heaven without having "agape" in our hearts?

An "agape-filled heart" is demonstrated - and only demonstrated - by happily keeping God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) so if people find keeping God's commandments "grievous", that should be an indication to reexamine their relationship with God.
We happily rest in faith knowing Jesus kept the whole law with perfect agape.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Read again Matt 25;34-36
I know those verse not teach salvation by work, but if you have faith that is what happen like what Jesus say in Matt 25
If you accept Jesus than die the next second, yes you save, because Jesus allready in you, Jesus in you cause you to have love, but you don't have time to show the love
Salvation by faith not work, but you have time. Your faith will bear fruit of love
It says, "who declares the ungodly righteous,", and there is no time stamp on Rom 4:4. Ungodly get saved and then the Holy Spirit transforms them, not vice-versa.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I remember in my bible study, my pastor say the last judgement is only decide reward not decide heaven or hell

But read those verses by yourself, what Jesus say there

Is about eternal life or eternal punishment

Jesus never lie

Jesus not say it is about how much diamond in your crown but every body there go to heaven

Don't make your own bible

Don't change bible
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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It says, "who declares the ungodly righteous,", and there is no time stamp on Rom 4:4. Ungodly get saved and then the Holy Spirit transforms them, not vice-versa.
The Holy Spirit transform into loving person and do like Matt 25
 
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The Divisions of the 70 Weeks
In verse 24, Gabriel says, “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city.” Almost all commentators agree that the seventy “sevens” should be understood as seventy “weeks” of years, in other words, a period of 490 years. These verses provide a sort of “clock” that gives an idea of when the Messiah would come and some of the events that would accompany His appearance.
Yes, with the only problem with this being "decreed" - the word is "cut off" or "amputated". The 70 Weeks were given not only to pinpoint Messiah's arrival, but to CLEAR UP DANIEL'S CONFUSION about the 2,300 days, as indicated "understand the matter and consider the "mareh" which refers to the "2,300 days" vision of the previous chapter. Therefore, the 70 Weeks is "cut off" from the larger 2,300 days in order to explain them.
The Purpose of the 70 Weeks
The prophecy contains a statement concerning God’s six-fold purpose in bringing these events to pass. Verse 24 says this purpose is 1) “to finish transgression,” 2) “to put an end to sin,” 3) “to atone for wickedness,” 4) “to bring in everlasting righteousness,” 5) “to seal up vision and prophecy,” and 6) “to anoint the most holy.”
At the end of the 70 Weeks, all was fulfilled: In the Christian's life Jesus has finished the transgression and made an end of sins, made reconciliation for iniquity and has brought in everlasting righteousness. Also, it "sealed up the vision and the prophecy" which means the fulfillment of the 70 Weeks was a "seal of assurance" that the 2,300 would also come to pass. Finally, Jesus "anointed the Most Holy when He commenced His High Priestly ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary.
The Fulfillment of the 70 Weeks
Gabriel said the prophetic clock would start at the time that a decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem. From the date of that decree to the time of the Messiah would be 483 years.
True
We know from history that the command to “restore and rebuild Jerusalem” was given by King Artaxerxes of Persia c. 444 B.C. (see Nehemiah 2:1-8).
Wrong, this 444 decree was merely a reinstatement of the same decree Artaxerxes issued in 457 B.C. which is found in Ezra 7, but was suspended due to local trouble with Tobias and company, so it's eschatological skulduggery to claim 444 B.C. as the starting date.
The Final Week of the 70 Weeks
Of the 70 “sevens,” 69 have been fulfilled in history. This leaves one more “seven” yet to be fulfilled. Most scholars believe that we are now living in a huge gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. The prophetic clock has been paused, as it were. The final “seven” of Daniel is what we usually call the tribulation period.
Yes, most JESUIT scholars believe this nonsense of a pending week. The thing is called "70 Weeks" which means it is to last 70 weeks, not 70 Weeks+.

Try going to work and telling your boss at 12 noon you'll be back after your lunch hour but don't come back until 2:00, and when he wants to know why you're late, tell him, "Boss, didn't you know? There's an hour "gap" between 12:59 and 1:00, so I've only been gone an hour" and see how far that gets you.

What do you believe about what is called the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble?[/QUOTE] Since the Bible teaches a post trib "gathering together" of the saints to meet Jesus in the air, the "tribulation" spoken of refers to the "reign of papal terror" in which millions and millions and millions of Christians were slaughtered, after which the earthquake, the dark day and blood red moon night, and the fantastic meteor shower which signs signal the time of the end has arrived and Jesus is coming soon. These events already occured in history and set in motion the great end times evangelistic movement that has been rolling ever since: the soon return of Jesus.

The Time of Jacob's trouble refers to the end time period when the Mark of the Beast goes forth with its initial boycott followed by the death decree. However, when the 7 Last Plagues start falling, and God's faithful are as protected as Noah and company in the Ark, Israel in Egypt, Daniel in the Lion's den, the Three Hebrew Worthies in the furnace, etc., the faithful will gaze upward at the "cloud about the size of a man's fist" which is the approaching army of Jesus, no longer our High Priest Intercessor, but our Savior and Redeemer King.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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The Holy Spirit transform into loving person and do like Matt 25
Like David? (adultery, scheming, manipulation,murder)...yet a man declared by Jesus as one after God's own heart.
 
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Tell us, if you will, what is this "whole law" that Paul is referring to in Galatians 5:3.
The word "circumcision" tips us off...that was contained in the Mosaic law, which was nailed to the Cross.

And then please exegete what Paul is saying will be the THE RESULT of attempting to keep this "whole law" per Galatians 5:4.[/QUOTE] Eternal death, obviously. Now, please tell us, if you will, are we obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, or are we free to break them?

Can we have Satan as a god before God?
Can we bow down (or toward the T.V., theatre screen, performance stage, etc.) in idolatrous worship?
Can we take our Lord's name in vain?
Can we forget to keep the Sabbath day holy by not working in it?
Can we dishonor parents, kill others, cheat on our spouses, steal, lie, or covet?

Are we simultaneously obligated to keep them and at liberty to break them?
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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The word "circumcision" tips us off...that was contained in the Mosaic law, which was nailed to the
[/QUOTE]
Well....Paul must be in deep trouble here....
Rom 7:25 - I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Notwithstanding the abovementioned...

Rom 10:4 - For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom 10:4 - For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Gal 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:21 - I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 3:13 - Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Phl 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: