Rightly divided

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I was wondering the same.

Abraham had the faith of Christ by having faith in the Promise.
Scripture says otherwise as I have posted in Galatians 3 and Romans 3. Abraham had faith, but not the faith of Christ.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Scripture says otherwise as I have posted in Galatians 3 and Romans 3. Abraham had faith, but not the faith of Christ.
I hope you know that most Greek scholars prefer 'faith in Christ' rather than 'faith of Christ'. Both are true and both apply to true believers of all ages.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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I hope you know that most Greek scholars prefer 'faith in Christ' rather than 'faith of Christ'. Both are true and both apply to true believers of all ages.
I only care what Scripture says. Don’t care what Greek scholars think.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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tsk tsk, they are the ones that translate the Scriptures.
I already have a bible I trust every word. All I’m asked is to believe every word. Again, the faith of Christ is a precious doctrine most don’t understand.
 

Matthew55

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Dec 29, 2018
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We have a choice to serve GOD or serve ourself so then JESUS who Is GOD knew that the rich young ruler was looking at the outward man to Impart some kind of reassuring confidence so that he could feel that he would make It In not recognizing that GOD IS a SPIRIT and those that worship HIM MUST worship HIM our spirit to HIS SPIRIT and HIS SPIRIT to our spirit and In TRUTH.GOD IN CHRIST JESUS didn’t tell him anything wrong but let the man make his choice.Since the man chose to look to a priest rather than GOD,JESUS pointed him to the law telling him”you know the commandments”

JESUS told him,WHY do you call me “good”?

There Is only “ONE”that Is good and that Is GOD.

Call on GOD and man should tell you that also man can’t save with the traditions of man.Only grace through faith can save man.
Luke 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

It is true that Zacharias and Elizabeth may never have met Jesus, being stricken in years. But they kept the law of Moses and were blameless. Will they be saved?
 

Matthew55

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Dec 29, 2018
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A doctrine often overlooked is the doctrine of the faith of Jesus Christ. The faith of Christ that justifies the believer was not available until after the resurrection. Before the resurrection man was justified by his own individual faith which required obedience, faith requires evidence. Even then, man's justification could only lead to self righteousness under the law which could never take away sin, but could keep the faithful servant from condemnation in Abraham's bosom upon death.

The faith of Jesus Christ is God's righteousness without the law available to those who trust in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Abraham is a type of believer in the OT but is not identical to the NT believer. Paul uses him in type to explain what we have available now. Abraham did not have God's righteousness through the faith of Christ.
So is Abraham saved?
 

Matthew55

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Dec 29, 2018
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22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came (Before faith came? Whose faith? The faith of Jesus Christ), we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come(the faith of Jesus Christ), we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Before Christ, man had faith. It was his own personal faith. Until God's righteousness had come which is through the faith of Jesus Christ, man was justified through their own individual faith which including works. Man's justification could never take away sin nor lead one to heaven. They were kept from eternal condemnation until led free by Christ.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Are all the Israelites that kept the law of Moses saved or not?
 

Matthew55

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Dec 29, 2018
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Thanks for your opinion. I definitely don't agree.
James is a contemporary of Paul. Did James speak the truth, what do you disagree about with James, the apostle of Jesus Christ?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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James is a contemporary of Paul. Did James speak the truth, what do you disagree about with James, the apostle of Jesus Christ?
I don't. Where did I give any indication that I disagreed with James? I believe it was with John146 over many posts that I disagreed with.
 

Matthew55

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Dec 29, 2018
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I don't. Where did I give any indication that I disagreed with James? I believe it was with John146 over many posts that I disagreed with.
He quoted James 2 + others in post #350. What do you disagree with that James said?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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So all those that lived the law of Moses are not saved?
I never said that. I said people are saved by grace.

Do you believe the Israelites kept the law? Well keep reading, they didnt. In fact they got scattered and cursed.

The mosaic covenant was largely dealing with EARTHLY blessings and curses based on obedience/disobedience. Promises like lifespan, multiple descendants, real-estate, agricultural blessings. etc.
 

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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Luke 1:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

It is true that Zacharias and Elizabeth may never have met Jesus, being stricken in years. But they kept the law of Moses and were blameless. Will they be saved?
Keep reading the story friend. This is one of the favorite proof-texts of Pelagians, but the key is to keep reading a couple verses ahead.

Zacharias is struck mute for unbelief later in the story. There went the perfection. :D Oy vey!

Luke 1:20
And behold, you will be silent and unable to speak until the day that these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time.”
 

Ignorun

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Dec 18, 2018
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I have come to believe that through Paul’s epistles.....we are truly free from the bondage of the law, which is sin....I believe that those that are truly in Christ, are not under the jurisdiction of it....Paul said “nothing is unlawful unto me”.....he says this because he is fully persuaded of the truth....In Romans 14, it is clear to me, that if I do not cast a stumbling block before my weaker brethren, I have no chains in my liberty....furthermore, those of you that teach, or indoctrinate your fellow man, to impute sin upon himself, as most of the corporate church doctrine has come to do....are commiting heiracy...many pastors of the church age today...teach the congregation to impute sin upon themselves, when they are no longer slaves to the law...it is expedient to recognize what sin is and use it as a tool wisely, but heiracy to scare your congregation with hellfire, in the sense that if they do not stop sinning, they will die in that sin and go to hell....it is one of the great deceptions that Satan has used to water down what grace was intended to be....I have seen too many families torn apart by the judgement of one another as the doctrine has taken hold in so many throughout the church....Follow Paul, as he is the apostle to the Gentiles....you have no business in the 4 gospels, in which was Christ’s earthly ministry....under the law......I post this for edification, I would love for anyone to chime in on this amazing gift of salvation
What law is sin? The law is sin? Transgression of the law is sin. I'll have to check a concordance on this "law is sin." The law of Moses was given by God. God wanted his people to follow it. Follow sin! Absurd!
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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What law is sin? The law is sin? Transgression of the law is sin. I'll have to check a concordance on this "law is sin." The law of Moses was given by God. God wanted his people to follow it. Follow sin! Absurd!
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
Blessings
Bill
 

Ignorun

Active member
Dec 18, 2018
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Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
Blessings
Bill
I agree. The Law is not sin.