Sabbath

[OstrichSmiling]

Thanks. I can see your point, though I disagree with your implication. I know that many Christians erroneously think Sunday is the Sabbath and that it is therefore proper to worship (and rest) on Sunday. I look at Sunday worship as a convention, participation in which is not inherently wrong.

It's not inherently wrong to argue and worship on a day manifest by convention? When the history of its identity as a day of worship is grounded in pagan sun worship?

It is inherently wrong when we assume a pagan day of worship of the sun and then renounce the Sabbath day as no longer binding.
In fact, if you think about it, its blasphemy of the highest order. Opting to worship our God on a pagan day of worship of the Roman's Sun god, defending that as some do, and worse, in the process, denying the day of Sabbath as that day of worship the God of the Christians ordained as his day of rest that he created for us?

Worship on pagan's sun's day but denounce God's Sabbath day? Do we think God forgot what he instituted as his Sabbath? Do we think he doesn't realize what Rome's Sun worship day is?

 

[Deade]

"Well, I keep Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Christ. There is nothing wrong with that!"

The only trouble with this is the resurrection was not on Sunday. The crucifixion was not on Friday.

You argue the resurrection was on a Sunday, but it was actually on a Saturday evening. Christ was buried just before sundown: and 3 days/3 nights add up to a sundown resurrection. Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The Romans said it was Friday because of the sundown Sabbath was approaching. But it says in John 19:14 it was the preparation day (crucifixion day) which is the day before the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread. Ask any Jew what the preparation day is. An annual Sabbath is called a high day.

John 19:31: "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

John 20:1: "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

Three days and three nights raises Him on Saturday evening. He had already risen unseen by early Sunday. Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet:

John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”

John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.”

Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they could touch Him. That is when He told Thomas to touch His wounds and then He ate with them. So, we can say for sure the ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheath day: [look up wave sheath day for yourself] when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

The only trouble with this is the resurrection was not on Sunday. The crucifixion was not on Friday.

You argue the resurrection was on a Sunday, but it was actually on a Saturday evening. Christ was buried just before sundown: and 3 days/3 nights add up to a sundown resurrection. Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The Romans said it was Friday because of the sundown Sabbath was approaching. But it says in John 19:14 it was the preparation day (crucifixion day) which is the day before the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread. Ask any Jew what the preparation day is. An annual Sabbath is called a high day.

John 19:31: "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

John 20:1: "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

Three days and three nights raises Him on Saturday evening. He had already risen unseen by early Sunday. Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet:

John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”

John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.”

Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they could touch Him. That is when He told Thomas to touch His wounds and then He ate with them. So, we can say for sure the ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheath day: [look up wave sheath day for yourself] when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover.

I would say you're posting to the wrong member. I have not said a word about the date of the Resurrection.

Since you have brought that into this discussion:

"In the grand scheme of things, it is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. If it were very important, then God's Word would have clearly communicated the day and time frame. What is important is that He did die and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. What is equally important is the reason He died—to take the punishment that all sinners deserve. John 3:16 and 3:36 both proclaim that putting your trust in Him results in eternal life! This is equally true whether He was crucified on a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday. "
On what day was Jesus crucified?

​

 

[Dino246]

It's not inherently wrong to argue and worship on a day manifest by convention? When the history of its identity as a day of worship is grounded in pagan sun worship?

It is inherently wrong when we assume a pagan day of worship of the sun and then renounce the Sabbath day as no longer binding.
In fact, if you think about it, its blasphemy of the highest order. Opting to worship our God on a pagan day of worship of the Roman's Sun god, defending that as some do, and worse, in the process, denying the day of Sabbath as that day of worship the God of the Christians ordained as his day of rest that he created for us?

Worship on pagan's sun's day but denounce God's Sabbath day? Do we think God forgot what he instituted as his Sabbath? Do we think he doesn't realize what Rome's Sun worship day is?

I really couldn't care less who started Sunday worship or why. I don't worship the sun, nor does anyone I know. We worship Jesus. We happen to gather for corporate worship on Sunday. If you have a problem with that, you wouldn't be part of the same local fellowship. All the harping about the Sabbath is irrelevant unless you conflate Sunday with Sabbath. I don't. End of discussion.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

I really couldn't care less who started Sunday worship or why. I don't worship the sun, nor does anyone I know. We worship Jesus. We happen to gather for corporate worship on Sunday. If you have a problem with that, you wouldn't be part of the same local fellowship. All the harping about the Sabbath is irrelevant unless you conflate Sunday with Sabbath. I don't. End of discussion.

Corporate Worship
Definition: That time designated by my church when I gather with other friends of God.

In this, I obey God's command to assemble with fellow Christians to praise God, encounter Jesus,fulfill His purposes in us as His Church, and participate in my eternal destiny with saints and angels.

Scripture: "Do not forsake meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing,but let us encourage one another - and all the more as you see the Day approaching."Hebrews 10:25 (NIV)



Deuteronomy 4:2
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.


Proverbs 30:5-6 Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar. Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.

Mark 7 Expanded Bible (EXB)
The Things that Truly Please God
9 Then Jesus said to them, “You ·cleverly ignore [are very good at ignoring/despising] the commands of God so you can follow your own ·teachings [tradition]. 10 [For] Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’ [Ex. 20:12; Deut. 5:16], and ‘Anyone who ·says cruel things to [speaks evil of; curses] his father or mother must be put to death’ [Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9]. 11 But you say a person can tell his father or mother, ‘I have something I could use to help you, but it is Corban—a gift to God.’ [C Corban is a Hebrew term meaning dedicated or set aside to God.] 12 You no longer let that person ·use that money [do anything] for his father or his mother. 13 By your own ·rules [tradition], which you ·teach people [have handed down], you are ·rejecting [nullifying; canceling] what God said. And you do many things like that.”
14 After Jesus called the crowd to him again, he said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand what I am saying. 15 There is nothing people put into their bodies that ·makes them unclean [pollutes/defiles them]. [But rather] People are ·made unclean [polluted; defiled] by the things that come out of them. |16 ·Let those with ears use them and listen [see 4:23].|”

Matthew 24:24
"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. ​

 

[tourist]

How is it you don't understand that the Sabbath day is to be observed different from every day ? 6 days we can do what WE want to do but on the Sabbath we are to spend time in fellowship with the Father and Son.. Why is that hard to understand and do ?

There is also the requirement not to work and at times this conflict means that you cannot even attend Saturday worship service. The way it is these days most employers require their employees to work the schedule that is provided. Currently, I work Saturdays and have not been able to attend a Saturday service for almost 2 years. Hopefully, the schedule can be changed sometime before the end of the year. I use the income from my job to support my family. This is my number one priority and I am not about to lose my change by insisting that my employer accommodate my needs on a regular basis.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

There is also the requirement not to work and at times this conflict means that you cannot even attend Saturday worship service. The way it is these days most employers require their employees to work the schedule that is provided. Currently, I work Saturdays and have not been able to attend a Saturday service for almost 2 years. Hopefully, the schedule can be changed sometime before the end of the year. I use the income from my job to support my family. This is my number one priority and I am not about to lose my change by insisting that my employer accommodate my needs on a regular basis.

Didn't Jesus in the accounts of his working on Sabbath tell us that God's Sabbath isn't as strictly structured as the Pharisee's made it out to be? Jesus taught in the temple on Sabath. Then after that he went about healing people. Which the Pharisee objected to due to even that work being said to be forbidden on Sabbath.

 

[beta]

The only trouble with this is the resurrection was not on Sunday. The crucifixion was not on Friday.

You argue the resurrection was on a Sunday, but it was actually on a Saturday evening. Christ was buried just before sundown: and 3 days/3 nights add up to a sundown resurrection. Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The Romans said it was Friday because of the sundown Sabbath was approaching. But it says in John 19:14 it was the preparation day (crucifixion day) which is the day before the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread. Ask any Jew what the preparation day is. An annual Sabbath is called a high day.

John 19:31: "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

John 20:1: "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

Three days and three nights raises Him on Saturday evening. He had already risen unseen by early Sunday. Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet:

John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”

John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.”

Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they could touch Him. That is when He told Thomas to touch His wounds and then He ate with them. So, we can say for sure the ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheath day: [look up wave sheath day for yourself] when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover.

Yes, sadly christians totally confuse Resurrection wit Ascencion - which are two different events.....one was not witnessed by any man, the other seen by many....each on a different day.

 

[beta]

I would say you're posting to the wrong member. I have not said a word about the date of the Resurrection.

Since you have brought that into this discussion:

"In the grand scheme of things, it is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. If it were very important, then God's Word would have clearly communicated the day and time frame. What is important is that He did die and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. What is equally important is the reason He died—to take the punishment that all sinners deserve. John 3:16 and 3:36 both proclaim that putting your trust in Him results in eternal life! This is equally true whether He was crucified on a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday. "
On what day was Jesus crucified?

​

Afraid you are rather askew in your particular view. You are totally negating Yashua's OWN prediction of how long He would be in the tomb Mat 12v40. Why would He state the exact time if it did not matter (according to your reasoning )? It matters greatly for the reason it IDENTIFIES HIM as the TRUE JESUS among all the other FALSE ones who would deceive many !!! Mat 24v4,5.
It is VITAL we follow the TRUE Savior who can and does save....not some impersonator from Rome who leads people into destruction with false beliefs of a sunday-resurrection.

 

[beta]

There is also the requirement not to work and at times this conflict means that you cannot even attend Saturday worship service. The way it is these days most employers require their employees to work the schedule that is provided. Currently, I work Saturdays and have not been able to attend a Saturday service for almost 2 years. Hopefully, the schedule can be changed sometime before the end of the year. I use the income from my job to support my family. This is my number one priority and I am not about to lose my change by insisting that my employer accommodate my needs on a regular basis.

I hope you are aware that the NT shows a different light to Sabbath observance which is no longer the 'strict 'do this or 'do that of the OT. I know how the WORLD has gone AGAINST God in every way and set up their own rules people have to adhere to. HAVING to work for a living can not really be compared to 'enjoying your own pleasures on a Sabbath which is your own work....so I would say there is a big difference. As far as I read scripture God does not teach against feeding yourself on the Sabbath (which in our age requires MONEY).
So I would not speak against working on the sabbath for legitimate reasons....since we are told to obey Authorities ! But we can certainly regret the fact we have to do it instead of giving the Day to God ...thus keeping it in the spirit !

 

[beta]

Didn't Jesus in the accounts of his working on Sabbath tell us that God's Sabbath isn't as strictly structured as the Pharisee's made it out to be? Jesus taught in the temple on Sabath. Then after that he went about healing people. Which the Pharisee objected to due to even that work being said to be forbidden on Sabbath.

I agree with you there. Sabbath-keeping today is nowhere like it was in the OT and especially taught by Pharisees. Yashua'Jesus shines quite a different light on it.

 

[posthuman]

It's not inherently wrong to argue and worship on a day manifest by convention? When the history of its identity as a day of worship is grounded in pagan sun worship?

It is inherently wrong when we assume a pagan day of worship of the sun and then renounce the Sabbath day as no longer binding.
In fact, if you think about it, its blasphemy of the highest order. Opting to worship our God on a pagan day of worship of the Roman's Sun god, defending that as some do, and worse, in the process, denying the day of Sabbath as that day of worship the God of the Christians ordained as his day of rest that he created for us?

Worship on pagan's sun's day but denounce God's Sabbath day? Do we think God forgot what he instituted as his Sabbath? Do we think he doesn't realize what Rome's Sun worship day is?

is the sabbath supposed to be calculated by the moon?

((i.e. it's not saturday -- it's the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th of every lunar month?))

the last new moon was July 13 in the common calendar - does that make today Aug. 3 ((Julian)), 22 Av ((Hebrew)), the actual sabbath?

 

[posthuman]

So I would not speak against working on the sabbath for legitimate reasons....since we are told to obey Authorities ! But we can certainly regret the fact we have to do it instead of giving the Day to God ...thus keeping it in the spirit !

i don't think working with regret and resentment is giving the day to God, on any day, much less one a person considers set apart. does He not say whatever you work at, work as though to the Lord, not to man? what is it then if a person is grumbling the whole time they work, while saying they are working for His sake? who would such a person be actually murmuring and complaining against in their heart?
He says servants, obey your earthly masters with good will as to God, not to men - if that includes going two miles on some particular day when asked to go one, and you do it with resentment, regret, and inwardly complaining, what kind of 'spirit' are you in fact keeping a day with?
the Spirit of God produces contentment in every situation, thankfulness and joy. if i say i'm keeping a day towards God and i am full of discontent & grudging vexation at my work, which i claim to be doing as though to Him . . .

 

[JaumeJ]

Anyone arguing the Sabbath is not the Seventh Day is apparently under his own law, made by men.

All of the law and commandments are to be employed according to Jesus Christ with mercy, justice and faith.

One may observe the Seventh Day as the true Sabbath from God as I do without need of taking away mercy, justice and faith. In other words working on the Sabbath is not a sin when it is for the good of that peron or his family, not simply for his own pleasures but for his good I say.

Again, anyone arguing this is simply under thhe law, his own law...........

 

[posthuman]

Now taking the Biblical rule above that NOTHING CAN BE TAKEN AWAY from a covenant, once the testator has died, it means ... The 7th day sabbath is part of the new covenant.

this reasoning means all of Moses is required of believers in Christ. obviously false, with hundred examples, physical circumcision being a very obvious one.

you are a hypocrite if you say this and don't keep every single jot and tittle 100% literally

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Afraid you are rather askew in your particular view. You are totally negating Yashua's OWN prediction of how long He would be in the tomb Mat 12v40. Why would He state the exact time if it did not matter (according to your reasoning )? It matters greatly for the reason it IDENTIFIES HIM as the TRUE JESUS among all the other FALSE ones who would deceive many !!! Mat 24v4,5.
It is VITAL we follow the TRUE Savior who can and does save....not some impersonator from Rome who leads people into destruction with false beliefs of a sunday-resurrection.

It's also important that we not follow some imposter from Gorham, Maine.

I just read something interesting that I bet accounts for Ellen G. White's madness. Here father worked with mercuric nitrate in his hat making business. "The phrase 'mad as a hatter' is associated with psychological illness brought on by excessive exposure to mercury(II) nitrate."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury(II)_nitrate

 

[JaumeJ]

The Sabbath of the Lord, like faith, was given long before the law.

Mankind had all but totally ceased in calling upon God when Abraham, one of the last with any faith, was chosen to be the Father of Nations, spiritually. It is this faith Jesus teaches us is what we have..............

If you still are even concerned that being obedient is being "under the law" as so many today teach, I am afraid you are nware of teh significance of any of the above.

All blessings in Jesus Christ to all who believe Him..........and not following the vote of mean.

 

[mailmandan]

The Sabbath of the Lord, like faith, was given long before the law.

Mankind had all but totally ceased in calling upon God when Abraham, one of the last with any faith, was chosen to be the Father of Nations, spiritually. It is this faith Jesus teaches us is what we have..............

If you still are even concerned that being obedient is being "under the law" as so many today teach, I am afraid you are nware of teh significance of any of the above.

All blessings in Jesus Christ to all who believe Him..........and not following the vote of mean.

Hmm.. The word "Sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning."

If the Sabbath was given before the law, then why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? If every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath (found in the Ten Commandments) never found in the book of Genesis? Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the Sabbath? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the Sabbath, but were instructed regarding: offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the Sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses?

The Sabbath was not offered to all the nations. It was given only to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - “Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 “So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.

Sabbath keeping with all it's regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on the Church under the New Covenant (Romans 14:5; Galatians 4:9-11; Colossians 2:16-17).

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I wish the Sabbatarians would pay half as much attention to Jesus as they do to a particular day

never talk about your Savior...just about what day you worship Him on and then get nasty (some really nasty nasty posts addressed to non-Sabbies in some recent threads including saying you are not saved or you are anti-Semite and therefore hate Jesus) if people do not fall under your marching orders

never never talk about Jesus...and always negative

so go ahead and work for what no one ever earned

I guess you are buying a ticket to heaven after all

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 2:18-19
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

IF we are dead to the law but alive to God and we are not under the law but under Grace, how can we gather on Saturdays because we think that's what the law says???

Wouldn't Christians gather on a different day than Saturday to further show they aren't under the law but under grace?

To show, to themselves and everyone else, that they are no longer under the curse of the law but that the Lord Jesus Christ has set them free...

Maybe gathering on the day that the Lord Jesus Christ Resurrected, the day of Power for the Christian would be a better day for Christian gathering and corporate worship.

Galatians 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Romans 8:1-2
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


Have you come to Christ and received Rest? If so, then why are you entangling yourself, again, with the yoke of bondage? Why are you looking back to the law to attempt to follow it in your own carnal understanding and carnal strength?

Don't you know that your carnal understanding of the law has no bearing on Righteousness before God??????