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brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,975
522
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Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,332
486
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"That leaves no room for dispute as to how, why, and what will happen, and to whom it will happen to."

"No room for dispute"???

Here is the verse: “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."

How does the Father choose who will be drawn to Jesus? I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.” Jeremiah 17:10

Why does the Father choose who will be drawn to Jesus? "The apostles left the council and were happy, because God had considered them worthy to suffer for the sake of Jesus." Acts 5:41

What will happen? "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." Matthew 10:22

To whom it will happen to? “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21

John 6:44 is written in the general.

It is you who is reading Calvinism into John 6:44.
The verse's message is clear. You just don't like what is says because you want to work for, and earn, your salvation - to justify yourself before God rather than to be justified by Christ - but you will never succeed in that.

The Father chose from before the foundation of the world, those whom He would save. There is nothing that can be done by anyone to obtain it as it is fully and completely a gift in all aspects from the Father through the Christ by His exceeding great grace and mercy given unto those chosen for it.

[Eph 1:4 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[Tit 3:5-7 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
2,979
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A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,911
5,180
113
Here’s a little bit more regarding that earlier

a prophecy of johns birth from his father filled with the Holy Ghost

“But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah , to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:13, 15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The final two verses of the ot prophets about 250-300 yrs before that

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


jesus disciples knew the prophets and thier wondering why it says Elijah needs to come first if he’s really the messiah

“And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elijah must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things. ( it’s true that Elijah comes first )

But I say unto you, That Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭17:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John is asked about himself

“Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Isaiah ”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hes claiming to be the predecessor of God who would speak his eternal word

The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:3-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus said also of his words

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter says again recalling Isaiah and Jesus

being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:23-25‬ ‭

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,975
522
113
Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
302
48
28
I am moved with the amount of confusion these days about the nature of our salvation. The answer to this question can be different depending on the denomination you attend, but I believe the Bible is clear if interpreted correctly. Salvation is a free gift, that is received through repentance and faith, and it was completely paid for by what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. All we are required to do is accept it by faith.
Yep that’s it. The only reason there seems to be confusion is because this is a public board with literally anyone and everyone responding. Some are saved; some aren’t. Most on here that are saved have not moved on beyond salvation into deeper spiritual things.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,332
486
83
Yep that’s it. The only reason there seems to be confusion is because this is a public board with literally anyone and everyone responding. Some are saved; some aren’t. Most on here that are saved have not moved on beyond salvation into deeper spiritual things.
Hmmm. Which "spiritual things" do you perceive as being deeper than salvation?
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
302
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Hmmm. Which "spiritual things" do you perceive as being deeper than salvation?
Salvation is the most important, but getting more people saved and set free is also important. It’s also important to be equipped to minister through the HS and to get to know God deeper. I’m not just gonna say, “Okay, I’m saved, now I’m done. Boom that’s it. There’s nothing else.” Paul said he wanted to give certain Christians spiritual meat but they were still stuck on spiritual milk.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,332
486
83
Salvation is the most important, but getting more people saved and set free is also important. It’s also important to be equipped to minister through the HS and to get to know God deeper. I’m not just gonna say, “Okay, I’m saved, now I’m done. Boom that’s it. There’s nothing else.” Paul said he wanted to give certain Christians spiritual meat but they were still stuck on spiritual milk.
Thanks for the reply.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
2,979
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A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,975
522
113
Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
2,979
503
113
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
243
69
28
I don't see the heart mentioned anywhere in the passage. Neither do I see any mention of the Spirit.
Where the Spirit is working, the heart is pricked ..Acts 2:37. In addition, the mind and will are engaged. And the result is faith and salvation.
None of these elements are present. It is merely the response of the natural man.
Ummm...the man "trembled" when he heard it, the Bible says. That would indicate that he was "pricked in his heart". The mind and will were "engaged" he rejected the Gospel with his will.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,168
5,445
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Ummm...the man "trembled" when he heard it, the Bible says. That would indicate that he was "pricked in his heart". The mind and will were "engaged" he rejected the Gospel with his will.
Where the Spirit is working, there is no fear...no trembling. Also, where the Spirit is working, one doesn't reject God. It is worded as it is to show the response of the natural man apart from the work of God.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,326
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Where the Spirit is working, there is no fear...no trembling. Also, where the Spirit is working, one doesn't
reject God. It is worded as it is to show the response of the natural man apart from the work of God.

Proverbs 9:10
:)
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
243
69
28
Where the Spirit is working, there is no fear...no trembling. Also, where the Spirit is working, one doesn't reject God. It is worded as it is to show the response of the natural man apart from the work of God.
Jhn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 16:8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

The Comforter, also known as the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit not only comforts believers, but he also "reproves the world" as the scriptura says. He reproved Felix of righteousness, "temperance"(refraining from sin) and judgment to come. Those three elements "sin righteousness and judgement" were presented to him, through Paul, and Felix rejected it. It appears that you are rejecting what I'm saying because you are Calvinistic in your doctrine.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,168
5,445
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Jhn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jhn 16:8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

The Comforter, also known as the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit not only comforts believers, but he also "reproves the world" as the scriptura says. He reproved Felix of righteousness, "temperance"(refraining from sin) and judgment to come. Those three elements "sin righteousness and judgement" were presented to him, through Paul, and Felix rejected it. It appears that you are rejecting what I'm saying because you are Calvinistic in your doctrine.
I'm not a Calvinist, so that argument won't work. And He trembled because he remained under the wrath of God. That is the natural estate of man. Had his heart been circumcised, his response would have been different.
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
243
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28
I'm not a Calvinist, so that argument won't work. And He trembled because he remained under the wrath of God. That is the natural estate of man. Had his heart been circumcised, his response would have been different.
Felix heard the Gospel and it scared him enough that he trembled. But he still had the freewill choice to accept it or reject it. Felix put it off. If you deny that, you are indeed calvinistic in your doctrine.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,975
522
113
Why do you keep ignoring the verse before 2:14?

Verse 13 which things we also speak not in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit explaining spiritual things to spiritual men.

That is NOT PREACHING the Gospel, it's explaining Spiritual things that verse 14 cannot understand.

So the Gospel preached is different and can be understood by ALL WHO HEAR.
A spiritually dead person can hear the Gospel but he cant hear it with Spiritual discernment and understanding 2 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.