Some here will see the Son of Man coming

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Sep 3, 2016
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#21
Matthew 16:28 - "Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, who shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom."

The exegesis is:
1. The phrase, "Verily I say unto you," pertains to the coming Transfiguration.

2. The phrase, "There be some standing here, " was referring to His Disciples, with the word, "Some," pertaining to Peter, James, and John, and not the entirety of the Twelve.

3. "Who shall not taste of death," means before they died. Actually, it would take place in a very short time.

4. "Till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom," referred to Christ being transfigured, i.e., "to change the form from the earthly to the heavenly."

In other words, they would get a glimpse of that which was going to be. They would see the Glory of Christ while, at the same time, seeing Moses and Elijah. Of course, there is no way that words could describe the astonishment of such a moment. They would look at two men who had been dead for about 1,500 years, while the other, Elijah, was translated that he should not see death. In fact, he had lived in Paradise in his natural body for about 900 years.

Consequently, Peter, along with James and John, would now see the Glory of the One he had acclaimed as "the Son of the Living God."

JSM Bible Commentary
 
Jun 24, 2018
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#22
"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
"ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι εἰσίν τινες τῶν ὧδε ἑστώτων οἵτινες οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσιν τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ αὐτοῦ."

Matthew 16:28

Your thoughts?
Hello

Some people there won't die before Jesus comes in his kingdom, so it has to be within the first century. If only some won't die, then some, or most, will die before. This shows what Jesus to be talking about to be decades away. It can't be the Transfiguration, as that was just a week later. It's very doubtful that it was the death and resurrection, as that also wasn't far off, not far enough out to expect some, or most, people standing there to die first. Also, for those who want to put their money on the Transfiguration or Resurrection, how is that Christ "coming"?

70 AD fits the timing. 70 AD is also the biggest eschatological event in Jewish history. 70 AD is when the church was fully established that the Temple age fully ended. 70 AD is when Jesus came in judgement of those who rejected him.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
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#23
Matthew 16:28 - "Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, who shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom."

The exegesis is:
1. The phrase, "Verily I say unto you," pertains to the coming Transfiguration.

2. The phrase, "There be some standing here, " was referring to His Disciples, with the word, "Some," pertaining to Peter, James, and John, and not the entirety of the Twelve.

3. "Who shall not taste of death," means before they died. Actually, it would take place in a very short time.

4. "Till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom," referred to Christ being transfigured, i.e., "to change the form from the earthly to the heavenly."

In other words, they would get a glimpse of that which was going to be. They would see the Glory of Christ while, at the same time, seeing Moses and Elijah. Of course, there is no way that words could describe the astonishment of such a moment. They would look at two men who had been dead for about 1,500 years, while the other, Elijah, was translated that he should not see death. In fact, he had lived in Paradise in his natural body for about 900 years.

Consequently, Peter, along with James and John, would now see the Glory of the One he had acclaimed as "the Son of the Living God."

JSM Bible Commentary
Good day Messageofthecross,

I agree! This is pretty much what I said in post #9
 
Jun 24, 2018
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#24
"And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." - Matt.12:27

So according to the scripture above, the act of driving out demons by the Spirit of God, meant that the kingdom of God had come upon them, which is the same phrase used in the scripture regarding some not tasting death until they see the kingdom of God arrive or the kingdom of God.
If driving out demons counts as seeing Jesus coming in his kingdom, then the disciples already saw Jesus coming before Jesus foretold his coming in the kingdom. Cart-before-horse.

I didn't see you address the use of the key word "some", which seems to imply some, or most, of the people there would die first. Who would say you'll see something before you die if they mean just a week later? And, how did Jesus "come" at the Transfiguration?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#25
When Jesus spoke those words to the High Priest, they were not simply to him personally but to Israel and all unbelieving Jews in the future: Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Mt 26:64).

This ties in with Revelation 1:7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

"They also which pierced him" is a reference to unbelieving Jews in the future who will see their true Messiah and weep and mourn because they failed to believe on Him.

This was already prophesied by Zechariah long before Christ said what He said, and John wrote what he wrote: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zech 12:10).
And how do you explain this:

Matt 10: 23When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son ofMan comes.

And this:

John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

John 16:16 Jesus went on to say, “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#26

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#27
Matthew 16:28 - "Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, who shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom."

The exegesis is:
1. The phrase, "Verily I say unto you," pertains to the coming Transfiguration.

2. The phrase, "There be some standing here, " was referring to His Disciples, with the word, "Some," pertaining to Peter, James, and John, and not the entirety of the Twelve.

3. "Who shall not taste of death," means before they died. Actually, it would take place in a very short time.

4. "Till they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom," referred to Christ being transfigured, i.e., "to change the form from the earthly to the heavenly."

In other words, they would get a glimpse of that which was going to be. They would see the Glory of Christ while, at the same time, seeing Moses and Elijah. Of course, there is no way that words could describe the astonishment of such a moment. They would look at two men who had been dead for about 1,500 years, while the other, Elijah, was translated that he should not see death. In fact, he had lived in Paradise in his natural body for about 900 years.

Consequently, Peter, along with James and John, would now see the Glory of the One he had acclaimed as "the Son of the Living God."

JSM Bible Commentary
And what would be the exegesis of:


Matt 10: 23When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the SonofMan comes.

And this:

John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

John 16:16 Jesus went on to say, “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#28
When Jesus was on trial he told the High Priest that he would see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven. The high Priest has been long dead so he wont be walking around at the second coming. So how do you think he will ''see'' the Son of Man in this context unless Christ was talking about some other way apart from a physical personal appearance. The same line of thought can be applied to the Matthew 16 :27-28
My belief is that altho we die here on earth in a particular order and time, we all arrive before Christ at the same time. Which is the point at which He is returning and gathering His own. If this is the case, then the high priest saw the coming of Christ in the clouds as he was passing from mortal to eternal. As every eye shall see.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,147
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#30
If driving out demons counts as seeing Jesus coming in his kingdom, then the disciples already saw Jesus coming before Jesus foretold his coming in the kingdom. Cart-before-horse.

I didn't see you address the use of the key word "some", which seems to imply some, or most, of the people there would die first. Who would say you'll see something before you die if they mean just a week later? And, how did Jesus "come" at the Transfiguration?
Greetings DDDo,

Actually, it was not Peter, John and James just seeing Jesus, but them seeing Him transform into His glorified state that constituted them seeing Jesus coming in His kingdom. I used the scripture which says, "If I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you" to show that Jesus was not referring to His second coming, but the power of God manifest through the Spirit.

Who would say you'll see something before you die if they mean just a week later?
Is there some date restriction from the time a prophecy is made to the time that it is fulfilled? Jesus happen to tell Peter, John and James about a prophetic event that was going to take place regarding Himself and the fulfillment happened to be a week later. I don't see a problem with that.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#31
"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
"ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι εἰσίν τινες τῶν ὧδε ἑστώτων οἵτινες οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσιν τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ αὐτοῦ."

Matthew 16:28

Your thoughts?
His church is His kingdom. Some of them seen Him after His resurrection and seen the church He purchased with His blood.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
17,040
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#33
Well the explanation is right there. BEFORE THE SON OF MAN COMES. So this happens before the second coming of Christ.

And this:

John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
When the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the believers, then the Godhead is also present. See the first epistle of John. This has no bearing on the literal and visible second coming of Christ with power and great glory.

John 16:16 Jesus went on to say, “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”
This was said before the resurrection. Then they saw Him -- in a little while -- after the resurrection, This has no bearing on the literal and visible second coming of Christ with power and great glory.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#34
"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
"ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι εἰσίν τινες τῶν ὧδε ἑστώτων οἵτινες οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσιν τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ αὐτοῦ."

Matthew 16:28

Your thoughts?
They saw the Holy Spirit coming upon them on the day of penticost.. Once one recieves the Holy Spirit one has entered the His Kingdom in a spiritual way..

But one day it will be both Spiritual and physical.. On the day of the second comming of the LORD Jesus Christ..
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#35
Is somebody a full preterist, here?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#36
Well the explanation is right there. BEFORE THE SON OF MAN COMES. So this happens before the second coming of Christ.
You have truly demonstrated how to be clueless.
Matt 10: 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Yes Jesus is talking about His second coming but not 2000 years later. No doubt from the text above- unless you want to ignore the first part that talks about the disciples not finishing all the towns in Israel.


When the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the believers, then the Godhead is also present. See the first epistle of John. This has no bearing on the literal and visible second coming of Christ with power and great glory.


John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

Jesus is talking about Himself coming not before long. There's no single verse in the entire bible that talks about Godhead.


This was said before the resurrection. Then they saw Him -- in a little while -- after the resurrection, This has no bearing on the literal and visible second coming of Christ with power and great glory.
Yes, you could look at it that way but Jesus was not talking about His resurrection in the whole context.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#37
I noticed that the experience of taste and sight are used in this verse, as in, "some will not 'eat' death, until they 'look upon' the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." And a search for similar examples for the phrase 'not see death,' such as in Heb11:5; Luke2:26; and John8:51, which latter in particular it is written, "whoever hears my word will never see death"m only uses the phrase 'see' death causes me to wonder at the distinction.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#38
Just fyi regarding the above, let's not forget to include what was said regarding "what is it to you if I want him to remain alive," which is as follows:

"Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you? You follow Me!” Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. However, Jesus did not say that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you?”

Therefore, Jesus did not say that John would die, but only said, "what if I want him to remain until I return." The Lord's point was, "don't worry about him or anyone else Peter, you follow me!
When Jesus spoke those words to the High Priest, they were not simply to him personally but to Israel and all unbelieving Jews in the future: Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Mt 26:64).

This ties in with Revelation 1:7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

"They also which pierced him" is a reference to unbelieving Jews in the future who will see their true Messiah and weep and mourn because they failed to believe on Him.

This was already prophesied by Zechariah long before Christ said what He said, and John wrote what he wrote: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zech 12:10).
This is a case of using 21st century hindsight to a 1st century situation. Jesus answered a direct question to the high priest.
He said YOU WILL SEE.... not the rest of Israel 2000 + years from then. Even if he did mean what you claim by using YOU it
would have included the long dead High Priest. The NT verses you use were unknown to the High Priest. Revelation and the rest of the NT wern't written then.

The manipulation of scripture on these subjects get more devious as time passes.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#39
This is a case of using 21st century hindsight to a 1st century situation. Jesus answered a direct question to the high priest.
He said YOU WILL SEE
.... not the rest of Israel 2000 + years from then. Even if he did mean what you claim by using YOU it
would have included the long dead High Priest. The NT verses you use were unknown to the High Priest. Revelation and the rest of the NT wern't written then.

The manipulation of scripture on these subjects get more devious as time passes.
Jesus answered the high priest in his usual oblique manner by telling him that he was the fulfillment of Daniel 7:13-14. That prophecy was well known to the Sanhedrin, so they knew exactly what he was saying, which is why they were so enraged. And they did see with their own eyes that reality 7 weeks later when the son of man seated at the right hand of GOD poured out the holy spirit on Jerusalem (Joel 2:28, Zechariah 12:10, Zechariah 14:8, Ezekiel 47:1, 9) and birthed a new spiritual nation (kingdom) in one day (Isaiah 66:8). And some of them probably did see the son of man's power and dominion again in 67 AD when he sent the armies of Rome to destroy Jerusalem.

All of this manipulation of scripture to project prophecy fulfillment 2000 years into the future is due to unbelief.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#40
I do view the verse in the OP as addressing Jesus' contemporaries, that generation, seeing the beginning of His kingdom, but what of those in Mark13:30, Mtt24:34, and Luke21:32 which speak of 'this generation' in the lesson of the fig tree? Are they the same?