Talking to the dead.

[garee]

after Samuel died he talked to Saul.

He was given the illusion spoken of in Mathew 4. The father of lies declared to Jesus; "I will show you all the kingdoms of the world and all the glory of them"...... defined in Colossians 2:18 Jesus did not worship the father of lies a lying angel .Jesus resisted puffing up his fleshly mind as some sort of out of the body spiritual experience a lying vision into the fleshly mind.

I will come back to that understanding of Colossians2 as the key to understanding what I am offering.

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Jesus understood what it meant to walk by faith, the unseen eternal . Three times he said; As it is written alone . The devil struck out three swings sent him to the dug out bottomless pit.

Saul believed the lie. God sent him a strong delusion to continue to believe the lie, the same strong delusion that got him there to be gin with( refusing to believe and obey God). God simply gave him no answer as the strong delusion.. Saul and the witch simply believed it was true as the father of lies sent him a false vision, it as in Colossians 2 puffed up Saul fleshly mind as a false hope that somehow God broke his promise and is now back in union. This is even knowing God had promised to and had performed cutting Saul off for any manner of communication with Him . Saul simply believed according to a false mediator, what the Son of Man demonstrated not to in Mathew 4. Saul simply bowed down to a image created in his fleshly mind as in self worship..

I would suggest. Stay away from those who look to out of the body or new death experience as something that could widen the authority of God's perfect word. Seeing God is no longer bringing any new revelations as confirmation that could add to His book of prophecy God's witness to men.

As Christians we have the word of God the Spirit of prophecy . as the spirit of lies does try and draw a believer away form the one source of faith as it is written .Thy having the example of Christ will not believe. They as new creatures receive no strong delusion (God refusing to commune), But continue in accorded with the gift of their new born again faith

 

[jaybird88]

He was given the illusion spoken of in Mathew 4. The father of lies declared to Jesus; "I will show you all the kingdoms of the world and all the glory of them"...... defined in Colossians 2:18 Jesus did not worship the father of lies a lying angel .Jesus resisted puffing up his fleshly mind as some sort of out of the body spiritual experience a lying vision into the fleshly mind.

I will come back to that understanding of Colossians2 as the key to understanding what I am offering.

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Jesus understood what it meant to walk by faith, the unseen eternal . Three times he said; As it is written alone . The devil struck out three swings sent him to the dug out bottomless pit.

Saul believed the lie. God sent him a strong delusion to continue to believe the lie, the same strong delusion that got him there to be gin with( refusing to believe and obey God). God simply gave him no answer as the strong delusion.. Saul and the witch simply believed it was true as the father of lies sent him a false vision, it as in Colossians 2 puffed up Saul fleshly mind as a false hope that somehow God broke his promise and is now back in union. This is even knowing God had promised to and had performed cutting Saul off for any manner of communication with Him . Saul simply believed according to a false mediator, what the Son of Man demonstrated not to in Mathew 4. Saul simply bowed down to a image created in his fleshly mind as in self worship..

I would suggest. Stay away from those who look to out of the body or new death experience as something that could widen the authority of God's perfect word. Seeing God is no longer bringing any new revelations as confirmation that could add to His book of prophecy God's witness to men.

As Christians we have the word of God the Spirit of prophecy . as the spirit of lies does try and draw a believer away form the one source of faith as it is written .Thy having the example of Christ will not believe. They as new creatures receive no strong delusion (God refusing to commune), But continue in accorded with the gift of their new born again faith

the bible says it was Samuel, im agreeing with the bible.

 

[garee]

the bible says it was Samuel, im agreeing with the bible.

There are a couple of things I would offer. First when a person passes from this realm under the sun their memories of the former things here on earth pass away and will never come to mind again .Now is the time God accepts the good works we offer towards his name . Saints not here are cut off from any communication of men on earth. there would absolutely be no such need.


Secondly I understand that is what it says. But what does it mean? Seeing it was not of God who had already sent him a strong delusion (no communicating ) so that they can continue to believe the lie but it was of the legion, the same legion Christ cast out as many used to establish the necromancy doctrine. . The rising spirits never come up as one spirit but many gods, that scripture defines as legion.

And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.1 Samael 28;6

That verse informs us not by prophets which I am sure include ones like Samael that have left this realm under the sun .

1Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. 1 Samauel 28; 11-14

Above this mediator (witch) who claimed to mediate between the things seen and those not, the spirit of necromancy would have to ask question in order to fish for description to put a face on the lying spirit .as in what is your name when asked of Jesus. And he answer legion because we are always many gods. In other words describe what you think I look like and then we can commune... we are many.. I have many faces of man gods. As in don't trust in the face of a stranger.

Saul asked her what she saw. she said the legion many gods.

Saul was led to ask what form is legion as many gods? The witch who was well aware Samuel was dead and would not be awoken until the last day on earth, said he was old and wore a mantle. It was enough for Saul to convince his own self the strong delusion by which God communed with him previous had somehow been miraculously lifted because he chose the avenue of necromancy .

In the end Saul bowed down and worshiped the lie revealed by the father of lies (self deception). It proved to be a curse against the whole nation God creating an evil sent the faithless Philistines the next day as a object lesson not to above that which is written

 

[jb]

Being as how the dead are asleep, you are talking to demons. If they say they are a lost loved one they are lying.

Lev. 20:27 "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."

Unfortunately, you've got the wrong idea, the Bible says the body sleeps at death, but the soul's consciousness continues after death, for all live to God. Luke 20v38, Matt 27v52

Contacting the dead is strictly forbidden by God for a Christian. Deut ch. 18

 

[ChristianLife]

I talk to my dead laptop or phone when it dies. I say like oh man or stupid phone lol

This is the only type of talking to the "dead" that is permitted for Christians - that is, "dead" electronics, and even then, your speech should be moderated

 

[jaybird88]

Unfortunately, you've got the wrong idea, the Bible says the body sleeps at death, but the soul's consciousness continues after death, for all live to God. Luke 20v38, Matt 27v52

Contacting the dead is strictly forbidden by God for a Christian. Deut ch. 18

umm no, Dt 18 is about contacting mediums like the witch of endore. there is no where in that chapter where the Most High says you are forbidden from asking Me to to say goodbye to a lost loved one.

 

[ChristianLife]

umm no, Dt 18 is about contacting mediums like the witch of endore. there is no where in that chapter where the Most High says you are forbidden from asking Me to to say goodbye to a lost loved one.

Incorrect. There are many verses where God outright condemns contacting the dead (necromancy). See below.

the bible says it was Samuel, im agreeing with the bible.

1 Samuel 28 does say that it was Samuel:

"And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?" (1 Samuel 28:15)

Why God allowed Samuel to be brought up by a necromancer is unknown. God had already rejected Saul at this point and Saul decided to contact a necromancer in order to contact dead Samuel to try to hear from the Lord. Perhaps the Lord just decided to give Saul one last word as confirmation why God had rejected him. However, the real reason is unknown.

God has done many miracles and wonders throughout the Bible. It is certainly true that God has the power to allow a spirit to come up, which God did allow in this case, although this is the only time.

It is important to note in the story of Saul contacting dead Samuel, that the woman who was a necromancer was surprised and afraid:

"And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice" (1 Samuel 28:12).

The woman was probably surprised because she may have been a fraud and didn't realize that a real spirit would actually come up. Alternatively, she may have been a real spiritist but in reality she was used to dealing with a demon, not a real spirit of a person.

God probably used this as one last opportunity to speak to Saul while not having to do it Himself, because God was probably tired of dealing with Saul (it is implied since it says in 1 Samuel 28:16, "the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy").

However, just because Saul was disobedient and God allowed Samuel to speak to Saul one last time, does not in any way set any precedent for Christians to do so.

Fortunately, 1 Chronicles also tells us that Saul was wrong and sinned by consulting a medium/necromancer:

"So Saul died for his breach of faith. He broke faith with the Lord in that he did not keep the command of the Lord, and also consulted a medium, seeking guidance." (1 Chronicles 10:13)

The Bible is clear in condemning all necromancy (contacting the dead) as evil and forbidden.

Leviticus 20:6 “If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people."

Leviticus 19:31 "Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God."

Leviticus 19:26 "You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes"

Deuteronomy 18:10-12"There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you."

Acts 19:19 "And a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all."

Isaiah 8:19 "And when they say to you, ''Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,'' should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?"

Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

2 Chronicles 33:6 "And he burned his sons as an offering in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and used fortune-telling and omens and sorcery, and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger."

More verses: https://www.openbible.info/topics/necromancers

The website Got Questions also says it well:

"The idea that dead people’s spirits can be contacted for information is false. Those who attempt such contact inevitably contact demonic spirits, not the spirits of dead loved ones."

Source: https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-necromancy.html

 

[ChristianLife]

It is important to note that any attempt to contact the dead is divination/necromancy, and this includes attempting to "say goodbye to a loved one".

Necromancy: Necromancy is a special mode of divination by the evocation of the dead.
--
Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10735a.htm

Another source, from the Encyclopedia Britannica (in case a Catholic source is not acceptable):

Necromancy, communication with the dead
--
Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/necromancy

While necromancy may also be used to divine or "obtain insight into the future or to accomplish some otherwise impossible task" (the usual reason), the definition of necromancy is simply the "communication with the dead" - or for that matter, any attempt to communicate with the dead. It is an occult practice and is forbidden by God and the Bible.

If you attempt to contact a dead loved one, you will be actually communicating with a demonic spirit, not your loved one who passed away. It is extremely dangerous.

See my post above for all the Bible verses condemning necromancy.

 

[garee]

umm no, Dt 18 is about contacting mediums like the witch of endore. there is no where in that chapter where the Most High says you are forbidden from asking Me to to say goodbye to a lost loved one.

Dt 18 identifies saying goodbye to loved one that have left this realm under the sun as a abomination. Which is images standing in the unseen Holy place reserved for one manner called "this manner our father in heaven" .

The word Hebrew word darash as seek is used in both way in Isaiah 8 . One to seek after our father in heaven and the other workers with familiar lying spirits the legion. Necromancy .

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.isaiah 8:19-20

Another example. God hid the one source of faith and discovered the one source of faith by which we could commune with Him not seen for the very purpose to be against the idea speaking with deceased loved ones (necromancy)

2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

He is sending a strong delusion to believe the lie and will continue up until the last day .

 

[jb]

umm no, Dt 18 is about contacting mediums like the witch of endore. there is no where in that chapter where the Most High says you are forbidden from asking Me to to say goodbye to a lost loved one.

Get a dictionary out and look at verse 11!

 

[jaybird88]

Incorrect. There are many verses where God outright condemns contacting the dead (necromancy).

i think this is where your confusion comes from, dead and necromancy are not the same things. when we die we do not become necromancy. necromancy are the mediums (witch of endore)that contact the dead. anytime these guys pop up you will always see enemies of Israel in the same passage, just like Dt 18. these are the same people that throw their children in fires and watch them die, do they really sound like the same people that love their children with all their heart.

Source

: https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-necromancy.html

they are the last ones i would use for any source. they will not accept anything in the bible unless it conforms to the proper man made doctrines. where i come from the bible is above man made doctrines.

 

[ChristianLife]

i think this is where your confusion comes from, dead and necromancy are not the same things. when we die we do not become necromancy. necromancy are the mediums (witch of endore)that contact the dead. anytime these guys pop up you will always see enemies of Israel in the same passage, just like Dt 18. these are the same people that throw their children in fires and watch them die, do they really sound like the same people that love their children with all their heart.




they are the last ones i would use for any source. they will not accept anything in the bible unless it conforms to the proper man made doctrines. where i come from the bible is above man made doctrines.

Incorrect. See the following quoted post. Communicating with the dead is necromancy by definition.

It is important to note that any attempt to contact the dead is divination/necromancy, and this includes attempting to "say goodbye to a loved one".
Necromancy: Necromancy is a special mode of divination by the evocation of the dead.
--
Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10735a.htm

Another source, from the Encyclopedia Britannica (in case a Catholic source is not acceptable):
Necromancy, communication with the dead
--
Source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/necromancy

While necromancy may also be used to divine or "obtain insight into the future or to accomplish some otherwise impossible task" (the usual reason), the definition of necromancy is simply the "communication with the dead" - or for that matter, any attempt to communicate with the dead. It is an occult practice and is forbidden by God and the Bible.

If you attempt to contact a dead loved one, you will be actually communicating with a demonic spirit, not your loved one who passed away. It is extremely dangerous.

See my post above for all the Bible verses condemning necromancy.

 

[jaybird88]

Get a dictionary out and look at verse 11!

Deuteronomy 18:11
or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,

yes?? thats exactly what i was saying. you dont contact anyone thats in the business of contacting the dead.

 

[ChristianLife]

Deuteronomy 18:11
or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,

yes?? thats exactly what i was saying. you dont contact anyone thats in the business of contacting the dead.

You don't do it yourselves either. Read all the verses quoted above

Case in point:

Deuteronomy 18:10-12"There shall not be found among you anyone who ... practices divination ... or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord "

 

[jaybird88]

Incorrect. See the following quoted post. Communicating with the dead is necromancy by definition.

your opinion has been noted, the problem with this is that the bible does not state this anywhere. our assumptions are not scripture.

 

[jaybird88]

You don't do it yourselves either. Read all the verses quoted above

yes, thats what i was saying to the other guy, going to a necromancer is forbidden. the bible says this. necromancer is not a dead person, they are the one that contacts the dead.

 

[ChristianLife]

yes, thats what i was saying to the other guy, going to a necromancer is forbidden. the bible says this. necromancer is not a dead person, they are the one that contacts the dead.

Contacting the dead in any way either through a medium or necromancer or yourself is considered an abomination to the Lord.

your opinion has been noted, the problem with this is that the bible does not state this anywhere. our assumptions are not scripture.

I gave you tons of verses! This is not opinion. Read all the verses quoted above

Case in point:

Deuteronomy 18:10-12"There shall not be found among you anyone who ... practices divination ... or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord "

 

[jaybird88]

You don't do it yourselves either. Read all the verses quoted above

Case in point:

Deuteronomy 18:10-12"
There shall not be found among you anyone who ... practices divination ... or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord "

"ONE WHO" meaning someone that is in the business of contacting the dead, such as a medium or necromancer. im sure they had many other names for these people.
your just confirming what i keep saying.

 

[jaybird88]

Contacting the dead in any way either through a medium or necromancer or yourself is considered an abomination to the Lord.



I gave you tons of verses! This is not opinion. Read all the verses quoted above

Case in point:

but you did not give one verse where the Most High says coming to Him to say goodbye to a loved one. your adding to the scripture and thats forbidden.

 

[ChristianLife]

Deuteronomy 18:10-12"
There shall not be found among you anyone who ... practices divination ... or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord "

"ONE WHO" meaning someone that is in the business of contacting the dead, such as a medium or necromancer. im sure they had many other names for these people.
your just confirming what i keep saying.

you are not one human?