The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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Mar 14, 2011
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This is not true, because our Savior Jesus is God and therefore has the right to judge those who judged him, to condemn those who sinned against him.
John said a man born of God can not live in sin, Whoever sins has never seen or known him.

All manner of sin will (not might) be forgiven men. Except one.. Rejection of the gospel.
 

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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John said a man born of God can not live in sin, Whoever sins has never seen or known him.

All manner of sin will (not might) be forgiven men. Except one.. Rejection of the gospel.
Right and the gospel is that God forgives anyone who believes what our Lord Jesus said,

Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt.4:17

And they went out, and preached that men should repent. Mk.6:12
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Yes it is. The elect members in Christ were made alive with its Head simultaneously when He was raised from the dead
Nope. You need to put aside your vain imaginings and read your Bible. Come to understand what God has stated in Scripture.


There is no way that those who walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience are at the same time seated in the heavenly places.

Ephesians 2:

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus


In vs 4, we see God's great mercy and love for us. And in vs 5, by God's great mercy and love we were quickened (Greek syzōopoieō):

Vine's Expository Dictionary:

Quicken:
"to quicken together with, make alive with" (sun, "with" and No. 1), is used in Eph 2:5; Col 2:13, of the spiritual life with Christ, imparted to believers at their conversion.
Then, once conversion has taken place (once we are born again), we are raised up and seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.



 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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This is not true, because our Savior Jesus is God and therefore has the right to judge those who judged him, to condemn those who sinned against him.
Yes it is true. Its in black and white that the blood purges the conscience and from dead works to the serving of the True God Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? You dont get it !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,391
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Nope. You need to put aside your vain imaginings and read your Bible. Come to understand what God has stated in Scripture.

There is no way that those who walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience are at the same time seated in the heavenly places.

Ephesians 2:

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus


In vs 4, we see God's great mercy and love for us. And in vs 5, by God's great mercy and love we were quickened (Greek syzōopoieō):

Vine's Expository Dictionary:

Quicken:
"to quicken together with, make alive with" (sun, "with" and No. 1), is used in Eph 2:5; Col 2:13, of the spiritual life with Christ, imparted to believers at their conversion.
Then, once conversion has taken place (once we are born again), we are raised up and seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
Yes its True ! They were raised together in union, just as they in union with Him died together with Him, He as their Head and Representative. This is why everyone for whom He died and rose again will be given spiritual life !
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
1,651
659
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Yes it is true. Its in black and white that the blood purges the conscience and from dead works to the serving of the True God Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? You dont get it !
The blood of Christ purged our consciences more than OT sacrifices because he rose from the dead, provimg his witness.

You don't understand that if Christ wasn't being sinned against, he would have no grounds to judge sinners.

Your belief that God condemned his Son in place of sinners is heresy. The truth is, men unrighteously judged the Son and any Christian who is persecuted for the sake of him should know this.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Rom 5:17

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

This is another scripture that proclaims the effects of Christ death unto those He died for, they shall reign in life by one.

Thats because the ones He died for will receive abundance of Grace and the Free Gift of righteousness.

Paul writes on down in vs 19, that all those Christ died for shall be made righteous, hence the free gift of righteousness.

The word receive here does not mean a offer was made and received or could have been rejected, but it means effectually given or applied to the ones receiving; Just like through Adam, men received death, we received condemnation, they were not offered to us but made to apply to us.

Those Jesus died for reign in this life because Jesus by His blood hath made us a Kingdom. Rev 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Notice vs 6 He hath made us King and Priest, being washed in His blood.

Thats why Paul says they shall reign in life, the atoning blood of Christ produces/accomplishes that effect.31

Jesus blood made those He died for a Kingdom, we are kings and priests solely because of His Blood.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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The blood of Christ purged our consciences more than OT sacrifices because he rose from the dead, provimg his witness.

You don't understand that if Christ wasn't being sinned against, he would have no grounds to judge sinners.

Your belief that God condemned his Son in place of sinners is heresy. The truth is, men unrighteously judged the Son and any Christian who is persecuted for the sake of him should know this.
Lol, you still dont grasp what the blood of Christ accomplished !
 

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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Lol, you still dont grasp what the blood of Christ accomplished !
I understand how our Lord is gracious to all people, but his Spirit is given to those who ask,

[For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Lk.11:10

And his shed blood is the degree to which he resisted the sins committed against him,

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4

That's the grace of the Father and Son.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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I understand how our Lord is gracious to all people, but his Spirit is given to those who ask,

[For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Lk.11:10

And his shed blood is the degree to which he resisted the sins committed against him,

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4

That's the grace of the Father and Son.
You dont grasp the efficacious power of Christs blood and how it effects spiritual change. Its right here Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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659
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You dont grasp the efficacious power of Christs blood and how it effects spiritual change. Its right here Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
I just explained it to you. You dont understand the difference between the Father chastising every son, including his only begotten Son, and the Father pouring his wrath out on the ungodly.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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I just explained it to you. You dont understand the difference between the Father chastising every son, including his only begotten Son, and the Father pouring his wrath out on the ungodly.
No you don't grasp it.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Made Kings and Priest by His blood !

Jesus blood made those He died for a Kingdom, we are kings and priests solely because of His Blood. Rev 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. See also Rev 5:9-10

So it is True that by His own blood He made us [those He died in behalf of] a Kingdom of priest.

All for whom Christ died will sooner or later in their life time, according to the purpose of God for them, become believers in Christ, to manifest their union with Him when He died, for they were in Him just as they were in Adam when He died, and Just as our union with Adam was made manifest by our being made sinners, so likewise, our union with Christ when He died is made manifest when we are made priest by Christ blood..

1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

None can by their own freewill be made of a royal priesthood, its an Divine Appointment, and Christ by His blood, causes all for whom He died to become.33
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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London
Made Kings and Priest by His blood !

Jesus blood made those He died for a Kingdom, we are kings and priests solely because of His Blood. Rev 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. See also Rev 5:9-10

So it is True that by His own blood He made us [those He died in behalf of] a Kingdom of priest.

All for whom Christ died will sooner or later in their life time, according to the purpose of God for them, become believers in Christ, to manifest their union with Him when He died, for they were in Him just as they were in Adam when He died, and Just as our union with Adam was made manifest by our being made sinners, so likewise, our union with Christ when He died is made manifest when we are made priest by Christ blood..

1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

None can by their own freewill be made of a royal priesthood, its an Divine Appointment, and Christ by His blood, causes all for whom He died to become.33
Your theology overlooks something that should be an obvious truth.

Kings must have a people to reign over and priests must have a people to minister to. Jesus, John says, is the Propitiation for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world.
 

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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No you don't grasp it.
Actually the truth is, kings and priests are those who are conformed to the image of our Lord, who suffered because he gave his life for sinners. He loved people who hated him and kings and priests will suffer as our Lord did,

For even here unto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 1Pet.2:21
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Your theology overlooks something that should be an obvious truth.

Kings must have a people to reign over and priests must have a people to minister to. Jesus, John says, is the Propitiation for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world.
You over looking hat the scripture says. They were mande kings and priest UNTO GOD ! Rev 1:6

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:10

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Please pay attention to scripture before you oppose it friend !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,391
110
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Actually the truth is, kings and priests are those who are conformed to the image of our Lord, who suffered because he gave his life for sinners. He loved people who hated him and kings and priests will suffer as our Lord did,

For even here unto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 1Pet.2:21
You still dont get it. Im showing you from scripture the transforming power of the death of Christ, what it accomplishes !
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Yes its True ! They were raised together in union, just as they in union with Him died together with Him, He as their Head and Representative. This is why everyone for whom He died and rose again will be given spiritual life !
Read the text, brightfame52:

Ephesians 2:

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


What you claim is that you were seated in the heavenly holiest of all while you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience and in which you had [your] conversation in times past in the lusts of [your] flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and [you] were by nature [a child] of wrath. :rolleyes:

That is your claim and it is utterly false.


Another point you need to understand is that it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who is seated in the heavenlies ... and outside of Him, we are not:

Ephesians 2:

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus

... the key to the born again believer being seated in the heavenlies is "in Christ Jesus". The born again one is not in Christ Jesus while living life according to the course of this world (i.e. before being born again).


According to Eph 2:4-6, this is the sequence:

vs 4 - because of God's infinite mercy and His great love toward mankind

vs 5 - through God's great grace, He quickened us (Greek syzōopoieō) "to quicken together with, make alive with" is used in Eph 2:5; Col 2:13, of the spiritual life with Christ, imparted to believers at their conversion.

vs 6 - at the time of conversion we are raised together, then seated together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus.


The natural man is not in Christ Jesus until he/she is born again. And until in Christ Jesus, we are not in the heavenlies.


Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us

It is the Lord Jesus Christ Who is in the heavenly holy of holies ... in the presence of God for us.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!


 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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London
You over looking hat the scripture says. They were mande kings and priest UNTO GOD ! Rev 1:6

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:10

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Please pay attention to scripture before you oppose it friend !
Are you sure?

Jesus told us He was going away to prepare a place for us and that He would return to take us that we may be with Him where He is.

Where was He going away to? where has He prepared a place for us?

We will reign with Him on high.

It is the Jews who will reign with Him as kings and priests on earth in the 1, 000 years.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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You still dont get it. Im showing you from scripture the transforming power of the death of Christ, what it accomplishes !
It's his life that transforms us. That's what his blood is, the life of God on earth,

the life thereof, which is the blood thereof Gen.9:4

brightflame52,
Do you understand that instead for killing people who sinned against him, Jesus endured their abuse and forgave them? Do you understand this?